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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

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03-23-2013, 01:38 PM
  #551
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Drew for Olli straight up! Similar stats this year, maybe they both want a change of scenery by now.
I would staet with something like 2nd and a 4th. His salary may knock off a few bidders

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03-23-2013, 04:13 PM
  #552
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I would staet with something like 2nd and a 4th. His salary may knock off a few bidders
I think that would be about fair.
Jokinen would be pretty much pointless for them.
Buffalo isn't helping their own cause by sitting him... good for us though. Should make this move right now. Maybe something is in the works if they're sitting him.

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03-23-2013, 04:27 PM
  #553
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Random fact...
Clitsome (6) and Hainsey (9) are top10 for pending UFA pts haha

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03-23-2013, 04:39 PM
  #554
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Random fact...
Clitsome (6) and Hainsey (9) are top10 for pending UFA pts haha
What did we get for Oduya last year? 2nd round pick?

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03-23-2013, 04:44 PM
  #555
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chicagos 2nd and 3rd 2013

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03-23-2013, 05:07 PM
  #556
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chicagos 2nd and 3rd 2013
Damn, that was a pretty good trade.
Wonder what we could get for Hainsey, makes a bit more

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03-23-2013, 05:14 PM
  #557
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It completely depends on the market, who is injured, who thinks they can make the playoffs, what draft picks are worth, cap space, draft pick availability, cap going down, etc..

Evidently Oduya was worth a decent return last year. Ottawa was apparently in the running as well. Hainsey may or may not be wanted by more than one team.

That being said, I trust Chevys judgement. If Fehr for a 4th is the worst trade we can bring up, he's doing not too bad.

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03-24-2013, 05:12 AM
  #558
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It completely depends on the market, who is injured, who thinks they can make the playoffs, what draft picks are worth, cap space, draft pick availability, cap going down, etc..

Evidently Oduya was worth a decent return last year. Ottawa was apparently in the running as well. Hainsey may or may not be wanted by more than one team.

That being said, I trust Chevys judgement. If Fehr for a 4th is the worst trade we can bring up, he's doing not too bad.
that really wasnt a bad trade.just was injured the whole year so never really got the chance which sucks.

i really thinnk he would be better then whatever wellwood doing out there right now lol

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03-25-2013, 02:03 PM
  #559
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@TSNBobMcKenzie: WPG prospect Jacob Trouba, the Univ of Michigan D whose NCAA season ended Sun, taking a couple of days to decide if he should turn pro now.

Mods - feel free to remove from this thread. Just noticed its in the prospect thread. my bad. Just a little excited


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03-25-2013, 02:35 PM
  #560
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@TSNBobMcKenzie: WPG prospect Jacob Trouba, the Univ of Michigan D whose NCAA season ended Sun, taking a couple of days to decide if he should turn pro now.

Mods - feel free to remove from this thread. Just noticed its in the prospect thread. my bad. Just a little excited
That would be awesome.

However I sincerely doubt that the Jets think he's ready right now, not sure if they can stick him with the caps or not.

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03-25-2013, 02:58 PM
  #561
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According to Gary Lawless, scouts who saw Trouba play over the weekend feel he needs to turn pro now becasue he is too good for NCAA hockey.

gary lawless‏@garylawless24 Mar
Reports from scouts watching #NHLJets prospect jacob trouba in playoffs this weekend say he needs to turn pro - dominant at ncaa level


If this is true, the jets are probably pressuring him to turn pro so he can continue his development.

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03-25-2013, 03:27 PM
  #562
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him turning pro is fine. but i really hope he doesnt do it this year, i dont wanna burn any time off his ELC for 1/4 of a season

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03-25-2013, 03:47 PM
  #563
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him turning pro is fine. but i really hope he doesnt do it this year, i dont wanna burn any time off his ELC for 1/4 of a season
tune into the prospects thread for a clearer picture of the implications of turning pro (ie reporting to the Rock).

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03-25-2013, 04:24 PM
  #564
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Hainsey:

I am sure Chevy has a plan for him, but it is also his job to be liquid in his thinking.

Perhaps the plan is to keep him, but there should be a tipping point with offers.

IF
Detroit or LA pony up with a first round pick, would that change his mind?

IF
St. Louis or Montreal offer two 2013 2nd round picks, would that change his mind?


There are multiple teams with reported interest in Hainsey. Could the Jets hit on something like this? Would it be worth it even if it is slight detriment to their playoff chances?


Two 1st round picks to go with three 2s and two 3s would be pretty handsome.
One 1st round pick, five 2nd round picks and two 3s would be pretty wild too.

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03-25-2013, 04:29 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Hainsey:

I am sure Chevy has a plan for him, but it is also his job to be liquid in his thinking.

Perhaps the plan is to keep him, but there should be a tipping point with offers.

IF
Detroit or LA pony up with a first round pick, would that change his mind?

IF
St. Louis or Montreal offer two 2013 2nd round picks, would that change his mind?


There are multiple teams with reported interest in Hainsey. Could the Jets hit on something like this? Would it be worth it even if it is slight detriment to their playoff chances?


Two 1st round picks to go with three 2s and two 3s would be pretty handsome.
One 1st round pick, five 2nd round picks and two 3s would be pretty wild too.
I wouldn't want that many picks that high in the same draft. That can create major problems down the road. Spread the picks out. This whole 2013 draft being so strong is HUGELY overrated at this point. Gather up some 2014/2015 picks as well, or maybe some already starting to develop prospects that might either crack Winnipeg or St. John's next year.

Not that I support trading Hainsey at all. We are first in the division, why would we trade away key components is mind boggling to me.

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03-25-2013, 04:31 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I wouldn't want that many picks that high in the same draft. That can create major problems down the road. Spread the picks out. This whole 2013 draft being so strong is HUGELY overrated at this point. Gather up some 2014/2015 picks as well, or maybe some already starting to develop prospects that might either crack Winnipeg or St. John's next year.

Not that I support trading Hainsey at all. We are first in the division, why would we trade away key components is mind boggling to me.
I support keeping Hainsey too and agree that having too many picks in one season causes huge problems down the road with too many similar age players in the farm and contract expiring around the same time...

...but having an excess of picks could mean packaging them for roster players, better but less picks, or prospects.

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03-25-2013, 04:35 PM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I wouldn't want that many picks that high in the same draft. That can create major problems down the road. Spread the picks out. This whole 2013 draft being so strong is HUGELY overrated at this point. Gather up some 2014/2015 picks as well, or maybe some already starting to develop prospects that might either crack Winnipeg or St. John's next year.
That makes a lot of sense. It would be nice if we could trade away some of our rental UFA's for some picks in drafts a few years away.

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03-25-2013, 04:36 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I support keeping Hainsey too and agree that having too many picks in one season causes huge problems down the road with too many similar age players in the farm and contract expiring around the same time...

...but having an excess of picks could mean packaging them for roster players, better but less picks, or prospects.
Bill Belichick is a pro at acquiring picks and trading them forward...ie turn one of our 2013 seconds into a 2014 first on draft day.

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03-25-2013, 04:38 PM
  #569
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I support keeping Hainsey too and agree that having too many picks in one season causes huge problems down the road with too many similar age players in the farm and contract expiring around the same time...

...but having an excess of picks could mean packaging them for roster players, better but less picks, or prospects.
Too many good prospects is a good thing IMO if it actually happens. No guarantee that all of them actually work out though. More picks just means better odds of getting a keeper, plus the varied development curve for NCAA players vs CHL players could help.

Plus, as you said.. Nothing says you have to keep them all. It would give Chevy plenty of opportunities to move picks for players of even move up in the draft.

Maximize the return and sort the rest out later.

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03-25-2013, 04:43 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I wouldn't want that many picks that high in the same draft. That can create major problems down the road. Spread the picks out. This whole 2013 draft being so strong is HUGELY overrated at this point. Gather up some 2014/2015 picks as well, or maybe some already starting to develop prospects that might either crack Winnipeg or St. John's next year.

Not that I support trading Hainsey at all. We are first in the division, why would we trade away key components is mind boggling to me.
I would be all for scooping a more develops prospects as well.

The point is not that they should trade Ron. The point is that everything should be on the table. Even if the plan is to keep Ron, everybody has a price. There will be a tipping point for Hainsey if enough people want him, even if that is a roster player and a pick.

Maybe it is two 2nd round picks. Maybe those two picks are flipped for Stafford.

Who knows. Nothing should be off the table though.

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03-25-2013, 04:46 PM
  #571
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There will be a tipping point for Hainsey if enough people want him, even if that is a roster player and a pick.
Advantage Burns.

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03-25-2013, 05:28 PM
  #572
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I would be all for scooping a more develops prospects as well.

The point is not that they should trade Ron. The point is that everything should be on the table. Even if the plan is to keep Ron, everybody has a price. There will be a tipping point for Hainsey if enough people want him, even if that is a roster player and a pick.

Maybe it is two 2nd round picks. Maybe those two picks are flipped for Stafford.

Who knows. Nothing should be off the table though.
This all day.

Also, it can't be stated enough that trading for more 2013 picks does not mean we have to use those assets as picks in 2013.

There are 2 key considerations when it comes to the Hains, both very subjective in nature and one leading to the other -- Exactly how important is Ron Hainsey to the success of the Jets? At what point does his price on the market outweigh his marginal value (over his replacement) for 10 regular season games plus playoffs (assuming he won't re-sign before the deadline, which would be my preference)?

With all due respect Holden, whether or not Hainsey is a key component to this team is a matter of opinion, not fact.


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03-25-2013, 05:56 PM
  #573
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This all day.

Also, it can't be stated enough that trading for more 2013 picks does not mean we have to use those assets as picks in 2013.

There are 2 key considerations when it comes to the Hains, both very subjective in nature and one leading to the other -- Exactly how important is Ron Hainsey to the success of the Jets? At what point does his price on the market outweigh his marginal value (over his replacement) for 10 regular season games plus playoffs (assuming he won't re-sign before the deadline, which would be my preference)?

With all due respect Holden, whether or not Hainsey is a key component to this team is a matter of opinion, not fact.
And with all due respect Stej, whether or not those 10 games and more importantly playoffs are of MARGINAL value is a matter of opinion, not fact. That experience is not marginal. It is VITAL for this team to take the next step.

Now let's say a deal comes along. Ron Hainsey straight across for a 1st round pick. Jets take it. Now we have a huge gaping on our blueline. Who are we going to acquire to replace him? We just saw a slower version of Mark Stuart go for 2nd's/2nd+3rd. Who is out there that can help us get to playoffs? Anybody? And would you be willing to give up a 1st for a top 4 defenseman as a rental?


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03-25-2013, 06:30 PM
  #574
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And with all due respect Stej, whether or not those 10 games and more importantly playoffs are of MARGINAL value is a matter of opinion, not fact. That experience is not marginal. It is VITAL for this team to take the next step.

Now let's say a deal comes along. Ron Hainsey straight across for a 1st round pick. Jets take it. Now we have a huge gaping on our blueline. Who are we going to acquire to replace him? We just saw a slower version of Mark Stuart go for 2nd's/2nd+3rd. Who is out there that can help us get to playoffs? Anybody? And would you be willing to give up a 1st for a top 4 defenseman as a rental?
Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. My background is financial and by "marginal", I meant "at the margin" which is a term often used in finance/economics. I wasn't at all saying that those 10 games and playoffs are of MARGINAL value. My point was that we need to evaluate the return from trading Hainsey opposite the difference between Hainsey and his replacement (Kulda?), not opposite the absence of Hainsey. Said another way, if we trade Hainsey, we don't play the rest of the year with 5 D. If you think the difference between Hainsey and Kulda for 10 games plus playoffs is worth more than a 1st round pick then I would politely disagree and leave it at that. Although I admit it's hard to make that assessment without seeing Kulda yet this year. It's just the conclusion that I've come to with the limited amount of information that I've been given.

I'll try to stay away from opinion in what I say next. Call me on it if I'm wrong. Here it goes (indented):
The Douglas Murray trade indicates that the market price for defensemen is very high this year. If it is possible for Chevy to capitalize on that, then I want him to do it.
Whether or not I would trade a 1st round pick for a top 4 defenseman would depend on many factors. How good is that top 4 defenseman? What are the odds that we could extend him? How much value does he provide for the stretch run?

Would I trade a 1st round pick for a Ron Hainsey equivalent if I knew we couldn't re-sign him (which is my premise in our situation with the real Ron Hainsey), then no, I wouldn't trade a 1st for that.

Edit: Let me flip that around on you. Would you trade our 1st round pick this year for Smid (I tried to pick a guy as good or better than Hainsey) if you knew he wouldn't re-sign here in the off season?


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Old
03-25-2013, 06:42 PM
  #575
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And with all due respect Stej, whether or not those 10 games and more importantly playoffs are of MARGINAL value is a matter of opinion, not fact. That experience is not marginal. It is VITAL for this team to take the next step.

Now let's say a deal comes along. Ron Hainsey straight across for a 1st round pick. Jets take it. Now we have a huge gaping on our blueline. Who are we going to acquire to replace him? We just saw a slower version of Mark Stuart go for 2nd's/2nd+3rd. Who is out there that can help us get to playoffs? Anybody? And would you be willing to give up a 1st for a top 4 defenseman as a rental?
It isn't as simple as playoffs or no playoffs. It is much more complex than that.

Perhaps (at the deadline) Chevy thinks the Jets have 95% chance of making the playoffs with Hainsey and an 85% chance of making it without him, a 10% chance of making the playoffs becomes Hainsey's theoretical value. Draft picks also have a theoretical value. What is a 10% chance of making the playoffs worth in terms of draft picks? Chevy has to find that balance and make decisions accordingly.

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