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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 5

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03-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #126
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How many NHLers are drafted in the 50-60 range. HF overrates draft picks.
You are right, but look at what some folks have been paying for players in terms of draft picks. This is quite a price to pay compared to what we have seen done recently. D'Agostini for instance... You are right in regards to picks....How many 18 year old kids drafted become NHLers? We contended with Caron and Keenan selling the farm. Why can't Pittsburgh? There's is stocked. They have several more Joe Morrows waiting in the wings.

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03-25-2013, 01:18 PM
  #127
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2 late 2nds in reality isn't that bad.
For Douglas Murray it is.

1 late second is an awful lot for a guy who moves slower on skates than I do. Trying to imagine Murray being a major part of a team which tends to try to play an up-tempo style only makes me cringe.

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03-25-2013, 01:22 PM
  #128
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Not to a level that everyone should be freaking out about though. For us, I think it puts us in the DeKeyser or blockbuster mode. I don't mind giving up our 2 2nds, but that player wouldn't be much of an upgrade. Adding a Regehr wouldn't help us that much.

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03-25-2013, 01:32 PM
  #129
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Not to a level that everyone should be freaking out about though. For us, I think it puts us in the DeKeyser or blockbuster mode. I don't mind giving up our 2 2nds, but that player wouldn't be much of an upgrade. Adding a Regehr wouldn't help us that much.
Or in the "hope for the best mode" which I believe is likely the greatest chance.

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03-25-2013, 01:40 PM
  #130
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Or see what we can get from them for Perron or McDonald? (JOKING NO ONE IN PARTICULAR) 5 1sts?

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03-25-2013, 01:51 PM
  #131
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Haha Douglas Murray is terrible and Sharks fans have to be beside themselves with joy. Though one of the 2ds is conditional on the Pens going to the conference finals I think.

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03-25-2013, 01:52 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Or see what we can get from them for Perron or McDonald? (JOKING NO ONE IN PARTICULAR) 5 1sts?
From what I can tell from speaking with various people and looking on this board (among others) the Blues would be lucky to get a 2nd rounder for McDonald, Perron, Halak, Elliott, and at times Backes.
Combined

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03-25-2013, 01:54 PM
  #133
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Haha Douglas Murray is terrible and Sharks fans have to be beside themselves with joy. Though one of the 2ds is conditional on the Pens going to the conference finals I think.
The second 2nd (so to speak) is contingent upon one of two conditions occurring:
1) The Penguins advancing past the second round.
or
2) The Penguins re-signing Murray.

Lacking another Fluery meltdown I would hope the first is more likely than the latter.

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03-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
From what I can tell from speaking with various people and looking on this board (among others) the Blues would be lucky to get a 2nd rounder for McDonald, Perron, Halak, Elliott, and at times Backes.
Combined
no kidding!

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03-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #135
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These trades should give everyone a pretty clear indicator of how slim the market is. Surely Ray Shero could've made better use of Joe Morrow and two second rounders than Brendan Morrow and Doug Murray. Just such a high premium to pay for two guys with little left in the tank even if they slightly fit within the box of what Shero were targeting. For perspective, Johnny Oduya went for a 2nd and 3rd at last years deadline and he's a top 4 defenseman on the best team in hockey.

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03-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
These trades should give everyone a pretty clear indicator of how slim the market is. Surely Ray Shero could've made better use of Joe Morrow and two second rounders than Brendan Morrow and Doug Murray. Just such a high premium to pay for two guys with little left in the tank even if they slightly fit within the box of what Shero were targeting. For perspective, Johnny Oduya went for a 2nd and 3rd at last years deadline and he's a top 4 defenseman on the best team in hockey.
I sure hope we have something that Shero wants....

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03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
How many NHLers are drafted in the 50-60 range. HF overrates draft picks.
I agree to an extent that picks are overrated on here, but then you look on the trade forums and some throw about proposals like there isn't much difference between a first and second. You probably have around a 20% chance of picking up a decent NHL'er at 50-60.

I'd give up our 2 seconds in a decent deal, and I'd rather do that than move our first. But Douglas Murray went from being a very solid player to a complete mess pretty damn quickly. Hell, maybe they think he can split some time with Orpik and that will get them both playing better...

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03-25-2013, 02:40 PM
  #138
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I agree to an extent that picks are overrated on here, but then you look on the trade forums and some throw about proposals like there isn't much difference between a first and second. You probably have around a 20% chance of picking up a decent NHL'er at 50-60.

I'd give up our 2 seconds in a decent deal, and I'd rather do that than move our first. But Douglas Murray went from being a very solid player to a complete mess pretty damn quickly. Hell, maybe they think he can split some time with Orpik and that will get them both playing better...
....or be another punching bag they can send on the ice in their division besides Engelland that can actually play a little bit.

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03-25-2013, 04:07 PM
  #139
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I hope the Blues don't do anything. Just be patient and stay the course.

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03-25-2013, 04:39 PM
  #140
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There's really no depth rental the Blues need, so if there's a trade it'll be more of a hockey trade with another team who might also be in the playoff picture.

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03-25-2013, 06:16 PM
  #141
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I hope the Blues don't do anything. Just be patient and stay the course.
So is this going to be our plan every single year? It will have to change eventually.

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03-25-2013, 06:36 PM
  #142
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So is this going to be our plan every single year? It will have to change eventually.
If it's a crap trade market then yes. We need picks and prospects to refill our roster. We are a budget team and cannot afford high dollar rentals. This may change eventually but these are realities of our current budget for our team.

Btw trading for big name players in the past won us how many cups?

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03-25-2013, 06:54 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
If it's a crap trade market then yes. We need picks and prospects to refill our roster. We are a budget team and cannot afford high dollar rentals. This may change eventually but these are realities of our current budget for our team.

Btw trading for big name players in the past won us how many cups?
Maybe take a look at the Cardinals model and build from within and invest more in scouting overseas, overage junior and college ranks in addition to the draft. The Cardinals are stocked due to the influx of talent they have from many different areas of scouting. Just a thought.... Make a few trades as justified for key pieces, but don't sell the farm doing so.

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03-25-2013, 07:18 PM
  #144
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So is this going to be our plan every single year? It will have to change eventually.
We shouldn't be looking to trade for the sake of trading. The price of rentals is prohibitive, and I don't think anyone available would significantly improve our chances anyway. As P9's said, any deal that we do make will likely be a hockey trade that could either happen in the next week or in the summer.

If a miracle happened and we got Danny DeKeyser, then I'd be all for pushing hard to get md at the deadline. That is about the only scenario though.

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03-25-2013, 07:49 PM
  #145
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Having said that... Army was just on KMOX and basically outlined what picks we have and that we are willing to move picks and prospects to improve this team. Mentioned the deal that Matt Carle got and basically said that we don't expect to be too involved in the free agent market because of deals like that.

Looking to move futures for a player signed at least through next season was the overriding message of what he was saying.

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03-25-2013, 07:55 PM
  #146
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The likely pieces include Cole, Rattie, 1st, and 2nds. If we sign DeKeyser, then Cole will be moved IMO. Rattie is kind of expendable with the depth we have on RW, but we'd need the right player in return to move him.

I think he does something in the end. I think a rental type at the deadline, and if they fail in the playoffs, then a bigger move could happen at the draft.

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03-25-2013, 08:07 PM
  #147
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I think we have a decent shot at Dekeyser. Al MacInnis will be making the pitch to get him, throwing names out like Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk as future teammates and mentor's won't hurt. Not sure what Dekeyser's projection is though.

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03-25-2013, 08:22 PM
  #148
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Anybody want to read the emptiest piece about the trade deadline ever? Take it away, Norm Sanders ...

The bottom line? Could we need another defensive piece? Could be. Interesting decision. Could we use an extra sniper or elite playmaker? Sure. More scoring would help. Also, better goaltending. What should Armstrong do? He should make "interesting" decisions.

Someone pays Norm a salary for this.

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03-25-2013, 09:13 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Anybody want to read the emptiest piece about the trade deadline ever? Take it away, Norm Sanders ...

The bottom line? Could we need another defensive piece? Could be. Interesting decision. Could we use an extra sniper or elite playmaker? Sure. More scoring would help. Also, better goaltending. What should Armstrong do? He should make "interesting" decisions.

Someone pays Norm a salary for this.
I read that and wanted to read it again because I thought I missed something, but didn't because it was such a waste of time in the first place. I am glad someone else thought this was just about the WORST read since I read a Bernie article bashing Brett Hull in the early 90's

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03-25-2013, 10:30 PM
  #150
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For the Blues, things are on hold until DeKeyser makes his decision (anticipated Thursday, apparently). Few of us expect him to choose the Blues, as they never win any player they're a finalist to get in free agency, but they're on hold nonetheless.

Once DeKeyser goes elsewhere, Armstrong will have 6 days to make any trades that might occur. If by a longshot he signs, it's almost certain the Blues will have had to promise him quick entry onto the roster, which should shake up some pieces. For one thing, the Blues still stand at 23 roster players, so someone else gets sent down (likely Cole) or waived (likely Elliott) to make room (unless, of course, there's any IR injury against Edmonton tomorrow). If they get DeKeyser, I wouldn't expect any other trades unless a team just wants to make a hockey trade and it's one Armstrong wants. No deadline "buying," in other words.

If they don't, I suspect he'll do something on defense but of course this would make the 4th consecutive trade deadline or UFA period where that's been the #1 need and the first three he didn't see any good deals/couldn't afford anyone and the market is worse now and the budget is the same. So who knows. We might be forever stuck in this dilemma.

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