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The Best Two Way Forwards in the NHL

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Old
03-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #126
Kiss My Rask
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lol no Bergeron in OP

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Old
03-27-2012, 01:02 PM
  #127
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Simply because of his offence? Because players like Kesler and Bergeron are better defensive players, without that elite offensive edge. Even a guy like Toews is capable of putting up PPG numbers and playing Selke-calibre defense.
1. The thread is about two-way forwards, not defensive forwards.
2. No they aren't.

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03-27-2012, 01:16 PM
  #128
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Alfreddson. At his peak, about the smartest and one of the best 2 way forwards going. Even at 39 he plays the full sheet of ice very well. Best player on the ice in the last game against the Pens.

If he was more selfish, he would have a lot more career points. Plus he is a mainstay on the PK. A classic Alfie shift is when is the first forechecker at the offensive and defensive end, in the same shfit. His wheels and post-surgery don't let him do that like he used to but he is still an elite two way player. When things are scattered, he is the one who time and again, gets the puck and settles things down.

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Old
03-27-2012, 01:17 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
1. The thread is about two-way forwards, not defensive forwards.
I'm pretty sure I read the thread title. However, Datsyuk has scored at roughly an 80+ point pace for the last three years. How does that land him in a category of his own, over guys like Kesler, Bergeron, and especially Toews? I'm not saying Datsyuk ISN'T an amazing player but, as far as two-way players go, there are several players in his league.
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
2. No they aren't.
At worst, they are relatively equal.

If I want to shut down Sidney Crosby or Jonathan Toews or I want a penalty killed in the last 5 minutes of an important game, I'm going to go with Kesler or Bergeron over Datsyuk.

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Old
03-27-2012, 01:18 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
At worst, they are relatively equal.

If I want to shut down Sidney Crosby or Jonathan Toews or I want a penalty killed in the last 5 minutes of an important game, I'm going to go with Kesler or Bergeron over Datsyuk.
I'd take Datsyuk, but its close. As a two-way player, he is the obvious choice due to his offense.

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:02 PM
  #131
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No order: Patrice Bergeron Ryan Kesler Andrew Ladd Brendan Morrow Matt Cullen Joe Pavelski Jarret Stoll Dustin Brown Milan Lucic. As much as people hate to deny, Alex Ovechkin hes changing his play to that two way but still leans his play to trying to score.

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:09 PM
  #132
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Datsyuk
Toewes
Kesler
Bergeron
Brown

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:11 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
When did Henrik Zetterberg become underrated? Was it when Datsyuk actually started to get the recognition he deserves? It's like two guys on the same team can't both be awesome at something or our collective heads will implode.

Zetterberg is great offensively and is a veritable blanket to other teams' best players during the playoffs. Datysuk and Zetterberg may very well be #'s 1 and 2.
One of Datsyuk's early Selke's should be Zetterbergs

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03-25-2013, 09:16 PM
  #134
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Kopitar
Eriksson
Zetterberg

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:09 PM
  #135
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There aren't 5 forwards in the NHL I would take over Bergeron. He's perfect.

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:11 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
There aren't 5 forwards in the NHL I would take over Bergeron. He's perfect.
I would just love to see him and Datsyuk go head-to-head in a 7 game series.

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:18 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
There aren't 5 forwards in the NHL I would take over Bergeron. He's perfect.


Flawless work along the boards in the d-zone, perfect no look pass that leads to a breakaway. It didn't lead to him picking up a point though so I guess it means nothing.

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:25 PM
  #138
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Kopitar is at least top five if not top three. PPG player or close to it, matched up against opposing top lines, number one PK, number one PP, high plus player, and one of the best possession centers in the league as evidenced by his absurd fenwick numbers.

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:58 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
When did Henrik Zetterberg become underrated?
It started in summer 2009. After the 2008 Cup, he was on lists as one of the best players in the world (I think THN even listed him at #1). But he spent the next season as the second-line shutdown center all year, instead of splitting center duties with Datsyuk on the top line the previous year (Zetterberg was actually a center around 60-70% of the time in 07-08, but was 2nd-team LW) and having been mostly the LW before that. Hossa signing in 2008 allowed for the two to be split full-time, and it was natural that as Z was the better defensive player and Datsyuk was the better playmaker, he would spend his time with Datsyuk. Zetterberg dropped to around 70 points, while Datsyuk (with a new 40-goal winger) stayed around the same. Zetterberg fell to 4th in Selke voting and Datsyuk won again. The next season, Datsyuk and Zetterberg tied with 70 points, Zetterberg again playing the shutdown role, and Datsyuk again won the Selke. Are you noticing a pattern? Datsyuk has been excellent defensively, don't get me wrong... but those trophies should have been awarded to Henrik Zetterberg. It's also arguable for 2011; he did his own shutdown work and carried the offense - IMO he should have been a Hart finalist alongside Ovechkin and Rinne, with Rinne winning it (and the Vezina).

Quote:
Was it when Datsyuk actually started to get the recognition he deserves? It's like two guys on the same team can't both be awesome at something or our collective heads will implode.
Look back at Yzerman/Fedorov or Sakic/Forsberg; even disregarding Hart voting, it's often true (recently, anyway) that in positional all-star voting players will get less acknowledgement when another star at that position is on their team. For example, Fedorov's 1995-96 season; why did he finish so low in center voting? Mark Messier had 99 points and did not receive significant Selke votes. Fedorov won the Selke by a ridiculous margin, and scored 107 points. Yet Messier was 3rd at center and Fedorov sixth. Messier also finished above Sakic and Forsberg, who both finished top-five in scoring with 120 and 116. Steve Yzerman, who finished third in Selke voting and scored 95 points, wasn't even mentioned on a single ballot. Ron Francis (119 points, 2nd in Selke voting) was named on six ballots and finished seventh. Messier wasn't better than any of those players, yet finished ahead of them all in third. Eric Lindros (115 points) at least has a valid argument for his second-place finish. Was it the so-called "East Coast bias" that put Messier (and maybe Lindros too) ahead? Was it that voters didn't want to pick two players from the same team? Lemieux was named on 52 ballots, Lindros on 34, Messier on 25, Sakic on 21, Forsberg on 13, Fedorov on 10, and Francis on 4.

Quote:
Zetterberg is great offensively and is a veritable blanket to other teams' best players during the playoffs. Datysuk and Zetterberg may very well be #'s 1 and 2.
Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, and Bergeron are the clear top four. There's a separation after that to the Kesler/Richards/Kopitar/Koivu/Elias/etc. tier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
One of Datsyuk's early Selke's should be Zetterbergs
All three.

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:05 AM
  #140
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Kopitar's been a Selke snub for at least 3 years now, thought that winning the cup would expose Kopitar's prowess as an elite 2-way player.

West coast bias is a real thing. Kopitar's abilities defensively are EXTREMELY underrated.

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