HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2013, 09:23 PM
  #601
Stej
Good Canadian Kid!
 
Stej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Kirk
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Here's something the author said:
Okay, you sucked me into actually reading the whole thing.

The article uses only 19 data points and very subjective definitions of "rebuild", "tanking", "post-rebuild", and "success" so I don't get much out of that at all. Of course it's harder to achieve "success" if you've been in "rebuild" for a prolonged period because of the very nature of the way success is defined in the analysis.

Just my opinion, but this study does not lead me in any way to the conclusion that we're better off keeping Hainsey just to avoid spending longer in our "rebuild" mode (and hence improve our odds of achieving "success" as defined in the article).

Stej is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:26 PM
  #602
BigTuna49
RIP KevFist
 
BigTuna49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ATL
Country: Egypt
Posts: 23,462
vCash: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
I'm not. We have to realize that assets need to be sold at times to jump on any inflated values our rentals may have. No team ever has a direct replacement for a player they sell, that's just the risk they take.



Yet again I cannot disagree with you. He certainly isn't flashy with his puck moving like Enstrom, has a bomb like Byfuglien, or hits like Stuart, but he certainly is well rounded. I didn't say his only redeeming quality is that he chews minutes, I said that he's only a #4 because he chews minutes. If he didn't, he'd be no higher than Stuart on the depth chart. I'm not saying they're comparable defensively, because Hainsey is clearly much better defensively than Stuart.

As for the vocal part, that is one thing that is missing in todays game. In fact I'm the very last row of MTSC (304 row 12) and I regularly hear Hainsey yelling "wheel wheel wheel". In fact me and my GF make a game of it. On the flip side our other d-men seem to be improving in this part.

As far as Stuart, he's another guy that is probably more valuable to another team than to us. You're a stats guy, you know that.

Part of good management is knowing when to strike the iron. I'd argue consistent playoff teams know when to do this best. The Bobrovsky trade and Staal trade are two good examples. Although these type of "sell" trades are rarely done at the deadline from playoff teams. Usually it's the off-season. Douglas Murray was just "sold" from a team that's in 9th place. He was doing 16-21 TOI.

The Ponikarovsky/Tangradi deal was essentially a sell/downgrade for picks trade.

Even at this point, Chevy will sell assets we are in abundance of if the price is right. He's invested heavily in filling the prospect pool, at this point our youngest prospectd he's pulled out for full time work are 24 (Postma, Kulda, Redmond). Drafting and picks are absolutely essential to the success of this or any franchise.
I'm not sure the Bobrovsky trade fits in that example. Have you seen his #s?

BigTuna49 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:32 PM
  #603
allan5oh
#moneypushups
 
allan5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,945
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I'm not sure the Bobrovsky trade fits in that example. Have you seen his #s?
It was a pure sell trade from a playoff team.

allan5oh is online now  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:37 PM
  #604
JetsHomer
Registered User
 
JetsHomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
It was a pure sell trade from a playoff team.
Selling your back up when you have a clear starter is not a hard choice.

JetsHomer is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:42 PM
  #605
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,261
vCash: 500
What I don't understand is why every seemed to think that Trouba is the answer to all and that somehow by him
being on the team it makes Hainsey super expendable.

It doesn't. It is very unlikely that Trouba will be the difference maker that we all expect him to be right off the hop. Lets try and remember that the kid has never played an NHL game before.

While NCAA may be closest thing, Trouba hasn't even played a pro hockey game in the A either. Im not saying tht he won't rise to the challenge of being an NHL caliber player right away, Im just not fool enough to assume he will.

I am ok trading Hainsey, as long as there is an upgrade or equivelant coming back in some way shape or form.

But believe me when I say, we currently do not have a replacement in the system that can fill Hainsey's minutes. Kulda, Clitsome, Stuart etc is not the answer.

Red might have been, but the hockey gods saw fit to take him away from us for the season. I can say with certainty that he'll most likely probably be back next season...or so.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:44 PM
  #606
Bristo
Registered User
 
Bristo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 480
vCash: 3425
I don't feel like a 1st Rd pick is realistic for Hainsey, but a second probably is, and we should take that if we can get it.

Bristo is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:48 PM
  #607
allan5oh
#moneypushups
 
allan5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,945
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Selling your back up when you have a clear starter is not a hard choice.
And what about Staal and Murray?

allan5oh is online now  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:48 PM
  #608
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 11,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
Okay, you sucked me into actually reading the whole thing.

The article uses only 19 data points and very subjective definitions of "rebuild", "tanking", "post-rebuild", and "success" so I don't get much out of that at all. Of course it's harder to achieve "success" if you've been in "rebuild" for a prolonged period because of the very nature of the way success is defined in the analysis.

Just my opinion, but this study does not lead me in any way to the conclusion that we're better off keeping Hainsey just to avoid spending longer in our "rebuild" mode (and hence improve our odds of achieving "success" as defined in the article).
he he he success


No I don't think its substantial enough to be statistically valid, but it does match with my opinions that:
* playoff experience is important
* a team core only has a limited window and these windows tend to be small
* the longer a team takes to make a push, the less likely a team will really likely be able to make a push
* taking a step back or being stagnant is not a positive sign for the core, for learning experience, for winning culture, and other such variables

While it's true that Hainsey may not cause a domino effect in either direction, he does increase chances of playoffs with than without.
In the end there is a tipping point but it may not be what we think, in either direction.

garret9 is online now  
Old
03-25-2013, 09:58 PM
  #609
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
And what about Staal and Murray?
I don't think you can classify Staal as selling so to speak...it was really a hockey trade. That was a first class move by both GMs to get him
Moved to a place where he actually wanted to be.

Murray has been struggling for the last two seasons, so it was a move that the Sharks thought they could afford to do. It's like moving a less able Stuart. That's a trade that we could probably do, trade Stuart especially of we were going to get 2 2nds for him lol.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 10:00 PM
  #610
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristo View Post
I don't feel like a 1st Rd pick is realistic for Hainsey, but a second probably is, and we should take that if we can get it.
If Murray got 2 2nds or w/e...he's basically a lesser Stuart...we could for sure get a 1st for Hainsey.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 11:08 PM
  #611
BigTuna49
RIP KevFist
 
BigTuna49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ATL
Country: Egypt
Posts: 23,462
vCash: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Selling your back up when you have a clear starter is not a hard choice.
And yet Bobs numbers are a good bit better then Bryz. That was the point I wanted to get at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
And what about Staal and Murray?
The Staal trade was taking a good asset, and turning it into something that fills the role better then Staal could. Wasn't really a sell when you add a guy that fits the third line C to a "T".


Last edited by BigTuna49: 03-25-2013 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Derp
BigTuna49 is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 05:23 AM
  #612
Jets
Resident Sieve
 
Jets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,471
vCash: 500
Burmi + Postma + 2nd for Pominville + 4th?

Jets is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 06:47 AM
  #613
GermanJetsFan
*PEW* *PEW* *PEW*
 
GermanJetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Darmstadt, GER
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets View Post
Burmi + Postma + 2nd for Pominville + 4th?
no way we give up Burmi AND Postma AND a 2nd for a rental

GermanJetsFan is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 08:57 AM
  #614
Guerzy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
no way we give up Burmi AND Postma AND a 2nd for a rental
He's got a year remaining on his current deal. A team would likely pay a top prospect, young prospect/player and high pick of some sort I would think for Pominville if he were made available. Captain to boot. For a contending team I could see it happening, and it's a bit less of a risk for them given they're in win-now mode, plus a likely attractive place to play to get him re-signed.

If we knew we could get Pominville re-signed, I'd pay the price in a heartbeat. Doubt we have the assets we would need to give up though. If Buffalo doesn't trade him between now and the trade deadline next week, I could definitely see them trading him in the summer (at the draft) if they're going to rebuild, and by all indications, they're likely headed in that direction.

Guerzy is online now  
Old
03-26-2013, 09:07 AM
  #615
TCsmyth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
If Murray got 2 2nds or w/e...he's basically a lesser Stuart...we could for sure get a 1st for Hainsey.
From who? Not picking on you Sully, but really guys, what team is sending Winnipeg a 1st round pick for a Ron Hainsey rental? If we can get that, then you run - don't walk to the phone.

Just don't see any way that happens, but if it does

TCsmyth is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 09:13 AM
  #616
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,751
vCash: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
He's got a year remaining on his current deal. A team would likely pay a top prospect, young prospect/player and high pick of some sort I would think for Pominville if he were made available. Captain to boot. For a contending team I could see it happening, and it's a bit less of a risk for them given they're in win-now mode, plus a likely attractive place to play to get him re-signed.

If we knew we could get Pominville re-signed, I'd pay the price in a heartbeat. Doubt we have the assets we would need to give up though. If Buffalo doesn't trade him between now and the trade deadline next week, I could definitely see them trading him in the summer (at the draft) if they're going to rebuild, and by all indications, they're likely headed in that direction.
Agreed. If we knew we could get him re-signed it would be an amazing deal for us.

Huffer is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 09:32 AM
  #617
GermanJetsFan
*PEW* *PEW* *PEW*
 
GermanJetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Darmstadt, GER
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
He's got a year remaining on his current deal. A team would likely pay a top prospect, young prospect/player and high pick of some sort I would think for Pominville if he were made available. Captain to boot. For a contending team I could see it happening, and it's a bit less of a risk for them given they're in win-now mode, plus a likely attractive place to play to get him re-signed.

If we knew we could get Pominville re-signed, I'd pay the price in a heartbeat. Doubt we have the assets we would need to give up though. If Buffalo doesn't trade him between now and the trade deadline next week, I could definitely see them trading him in the summer (at the draft) if they're going to rebuild, and by all indications, they're likely headed in that direction.
no question.


But we're not And that's exactly why I said "no way"

GermanJetsFan is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 09:44 AM
  #618
SCP Guy
Registered User
 
SCP Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Peg
Country: Portugal
Posts: 2,135
vCash: 500
The jets should pre fax an accepted 1st round pick for Hainsey trade to 29 teams and pray their fax machine rings back lmao!

SCP Guy is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 10:03 AM
  #619
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,428
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
no way we give up Burmi AND Postma AND a 2nd for a rental
Yeah I would.

Flair Hay is online now  
Old
03-26-2013, 10:07 AM
  #620
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
no way we give up Burmi AND Postma AND a 2nd for a rental
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Yeah I would.
Good thing you're not the GM then, from my perspective.

Whileee is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 10:12 AM
  #621
GermanJetsFan
*PEW* *PEW* *PEW*
 
GermanJetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Darmstadt, GER
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Yeah I would.
Well then,

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37

this is the link to the flames board. You'd love it over there dude

GermanJetsFan is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #622
Gil Fisher
Registered User
 
Gil Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,083
vCash: 500
So with the Semin signing, what's Wheeler worth? Is he going to approach $7m per? I know he's RFA, not UFA, but he's going to anchor there, no?

What about Little and Bogo?

Gil Fisher is offline  
Old
03-26-2013, 11:28 AM
  #623
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,040
vCash: 500
Jussi Jokinen is supposedly about to hit waivers.

He would be a great pickup.

truck is online now  
Old
03-26-2013, 11:36 AM
  #624
Guerzy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Jussi Jokinen is supposedly about to hit waivers.

He would be a great pickup.
This is quite interesting. He was a pretty reliable forward for the Canes (when I was a fan pre-Jets). Can play wing or center, and is actually good in the faceoff circle. I think he's fallen out of favor/role in Carolina with all their additions since the summer, but when they relied on him he was a solid forward. Only on contract through next season at 3 million, so for a team (us?) with cap room and lacking depth, Jussi could be a solid fit.

I won't be surprised at all to see his production pick up if he is claimed (I think he will be, for sure).

There is half the league infront of us for waiver selection, so I doubt he'd even drop to us. Edmonton, Phoenix (could they afford him?), Islanders, Washington, Columbus, Rangers, Nashville and possibly SJ could put a claim in, I would think.

I think he would be an ideal fit here, because we lack depth big time, and we lack good faceoff men. I think when utilized he is easily a 45-50 point player in my opinion, well worth the 3 million dollar price tag for just next season.


Last edited by Guerzy: 03-26-2013 at 11:43 AM.
Guerzy is online now  
Old
03-26-2013, 11:36 AM
  #625
GermanJetsFan
*PEW* *PEW* *PEW*
 
GermanJetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Darmstadt, GER
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Jussi Jokinen is supposedly about to hit waivers.

He would be a great pickup.
he... what? Why?

Why would they waive him?

He won't clear, that's for sure.

GermanJetsFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.