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Tallon's blueprint

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Old
03-25-2013, 10:24 PM
  #26
Erick
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
correction
Mediocrity is a good thing in sports outside of North America?

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03-25-2013, 11:06 PM
  #27
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I understand the question for concern after making the playoffs last season and likely finishing somewhere around last in the league currently. However, I feel that you can't count this season as everything that could have happened in a bad way, did. The lockout gave the team no time to prepare and while players skated on a daily basis or played overseas, it led to injuries which completely killed any possibility of having a winning season.

I'm not concerned at all with Tallon's blueprint. I'd say this season was a wash and next year is really year three of five. You can't predict well in this day and age, but I'm going to assume that it might be a struggle for us next season as well. Obviously, not dead last but I wouldn't say we'll be a lock for a playoff spot either. Our prospect system looks great on paper and some have already started to show progress as they make it to the NHL now and over the next couple of years. We can only hope that they'll produce as expected. Every great team had some dreadful years before they were successful. I'm hoping within the next 2-3 years, the losing seasons will all be worth it in the end.

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Old
03-26-2013, 02:41 AM
  #28
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While I am not happy with the team's trouble's this season, the amount of injuries is difficult to overcome. I do think Tallon does a decently good job at scouting and has been able to make more good trades than bad. I also approve his hiring of Dineen as he seems better suited for a developing team (not sure if Dineen is good for a contending team, may need a new coach once we are at that stage). It is just my opinion, but despite this season I am happy with the team's direction.


Last edited by JPG: 03-26-2013 at 03:02 AM.
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Old
03-26-2013, 06:32 AM
  #29
LUUUUUIS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Mediocrity is a good thing in sports outside of North America?
It saves you from being relegated to the lower leagues. At least that's what I think he's talking about. Common practice in leagues outside of North America.


On the subject at hand. I have a theory, and it is becoming more solid every day. There's a latent masochistic desire that drives some people to be fans of historically "bad" teams. I'm not talking about you specifically, SlickCat, but your thread brought it to mind. These fans only seem to post when the team does poorly. If they do post during an upswing, they're quick to make "waiting for other shoe to drop" type comments. Comments from this group are just so consistently negative, that it always makes me wonder why they're fans of the team at all. My only guess is that it serves as some sort of outlet for pent up frustration. Kind of like hitting a punching bag. Bad day at work? It's OK... I'm a Florida Panthers fan!

Now, I'm not saying we should all put on our rose-colored glasses. There's obviously things to gripe about with this team, but show some freakin' balance! Wait for Tallon's plan to be complete. There's historical data that shows we should expect this. We're on the hump of our rebuild. Also, we have ELEVEN guys injured. That means nearly half our team are call-ups. We've had close to that many injured for most of the season so far. All I'm saying is: Not too high, not too low.

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Old
03-26-2013, 06:33 AM
  #30
SufferingCatFan
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It usually takes around 5 years to do a proper rebuild and we are in year 3. Be patient.

We have a great opportunity to tank this year in order to add a top 3 pick in a strong draft plus make some trades at the TDL for picks /prospects, while shedding vets to make room for our prospects. Hopefully, we can trade Goc and for value, unload Kuba and Upshall, and have Jovo retire.

Next off-season, we will then have plenty of cap room to be a player in the off-season with the cap coming down, which should allow for bargain shopping.

Next year, we will look something like this:

Steeg-xxx-Fleishman
Hubs-Shore-Muller
Bergie-Matthias-Howden
Skille-Kop-Parros

Soup-Guds
Kulikov-Weaver
Strachan-Brennan/Robak

Markstrom
Clemmer

Is this great? No, but add a decent center and we will be ok if we get strong goalie play

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Old
03-26-2013, 07:17 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
It usually takes around 5 years to do a proper rebuild and we are in year 3. Be patient.

We have a great opportunity to tank this year in order to add a top 3 pick in a strong draft plus make some trades at the TDL for picks /prospects, while shedding vets to make room for our prospects. Hopefully, we can trade Goc and for value, unload Kuba and Upshall, and have Jovo retire.

Next off-season, we will then have plenty of cap room to be a player in the off-season with the cap coming down, which should allow for bargain shopping.

Next year, we will look something like this:

Steeg-xxx-Fleishman
Hubs-Shore-Muller
Bergie-Matthias-Howden
Skille-Kop-Parros

Soup-Guds
Kulikov-Weaver
Strachan-Brennan/Robak

Markstrom
Clemmer

Is this great? No, but add a decent center and we will be ok if we get strong goalie play
I think the goalie is pretty much set with Markstrom. He has taken nice developemnt strides this past year. I do see us upgrading with Petrovic- D along with Bjuds-C/F next season. Like to think we had 1 more D in waiting along with 1-2 more fiesty young guns up front. Knight, Trocheck, Megan, Kosov are coming in this next season. Thinking maybe all three can provide the up/down spark similar to Shore & Howden this past season. One point in disfavor, I thought Howden could have had mroe games to date. Shore & Huberdeau were all set with timing. Talllon's blueprint is still very much on course. We will be getting younger but better in the next year or so.

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:40 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
It usually takes around 5 years to do a proper rebuild and we are in year 3. Be patient.

We have a great opportunity to tank this year in order to add a top 3 pick in a strong draft plus make some trades at the TDL for picks /prospects, while shedding vets to make room for our prospects. Hopefully, we can trade Goc and for value, unload Kuba and Upshall, and have Jovo retire.

Next off-season, we will then have plenty of cap room to be a player in the off-season with the cap coming down, which should allow for bargain shopping.

Next year, we will look something like this:

Steeg-xxx-Fleishman
Hubs-Shore-Muller
Bergie-Matthias-Howden
Skille-Kop-Parros

Soup-Guds
Kulikov-Weaver
Strachan-Brennan/Robak

Markstrom
Clemmer

Is this great? No, but add a decent center and we will be ok if we get strong goalie play
Bjugstad will be with the team next year more than likely, and if they have one of the top picks, Id think one of the forwards would be here as well.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:03 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
It saves you from being relegated to the lower leagues. At least that's what I think he's talking about. Common practice in leagues outside of North America.


On the subject at hand. I have a theory, and it is becoming more solid every day. There's a latent masochistic desire that drives some people to be fans of historically "bad" teams. I'm not talking about you specifically, SlickCat, but your thread brought it to mind. These fans only seem to post when the team does poorly. If they do post during an upswing, they're quick to make "waiting for other shoe to drop" type comments. Comments from this group are just so consistently negative, that it always makes me wonder why they're fans of the team at all. My only guess is that it serves as some sort of outlet for pent up frustration. Kind of like hitting a punching bag. Bad day at work? It's OK... I'm a Florida Panthers fan!

Now, I'm not saying we should all put on our rose-colored glasses. There's obviously things to gripe about with this team, but show some freakin' balance! Wait for Tallon's plan to be complete. There's historical data that shows we should expect this. We're on the hump of our rebuild. Also, we have ELEVEN guys injured. That means nearly half our team are call-ups. We've had close to that many injured for most of the season so far. All I'm saying is: Not too high, not too low.
Very good post! Agree with all of it, we're a punching bag team for the last 12+ years and I'm curious to see what happens when we do see consistent success "which isn't a guarantee because we're Florida Panther fans!!"

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:24 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
It usually takes around 5 years to do a proper rebuild and we are in year 3. Be patient.

We have a great opportunity to tank this year in order to add a top 3 pick in a strong draft plus make some trades at the TDL for picks /prospects, while shedding vets to make room for our prospects. Hopefully, we can trade Goc and for value, unload Kuba and Upshall, and have Jovo retire.

Next off-season, we will then have plenty of cap room to be a player in the off-season with the cap coming down, which should allow for bargain shopping.

Next year, we will look something like this:

Steeg-xxx-Fleishman
Hubs-Shore-Muller
Bergie-Matthias-Howden
Skille-Kop-Parros

Soup-Guds
Kulikov-Weaver
Strachan-Brennan/Robak

Markstrom
Clemmer

Is this great? No, but add a decent center and we will be ok if we get strong goalie play
I was a fan of trading Goc the last couple weeks but I've had a change of heart. The guy is just so versatile in all situations I would like to see him back for the remaining year. I'm starting to think he's worth 2 picks(2nd and conditional 2nd like Murray from SJ) and not just a 2nd OR 3rd rounder.

Tallon has alot to decide in the next 8 days regarding our Center depth for next year.

Matthias should be a no-brainer to re-sign and I feel he could take over the #2 guy at Center in 2013-14. The guy has shown tremendous heart and determination this whole year and has stepped up his game.

Shore will be back but I'm starting to think he's more suited for a 4th line role than the 2nd line role. The Kid Line HAD success early but has faded the last couple weeks. I think Shore should be developed into a gritty bottom 6 Center moving forward.

Goc is a jack of all trades and should be a lock for 3rd line Center next year as long as we find a replacement (Bozak or Roy) for Weiss unless pigs fly and #9 is persuaded back to be a Panther.

Bjugstad isn't a lock to crack the lineup next year but I'd love to see what he can bring next year, he is NHL ready in terms of size but I feel he will need time to adapt as all young guys do. I expect the 9 game minimum from him and sent to SA for at least a year.

So to wrap up, my thoughts are to keep Goc as we have a ton of YOUTH at Center but not alot of guys ready to tackle the #1 and #2 spots for next year. I know we have some growing pains ahead but it's evident we have a gapping hole at #1 Center if Weiss doesn't return or a replacement isn't signed in FA.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:32 AM
  #35
adam graves
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There is a financial ramifications btw to this poor season, regardless of where the fault lies.

Renewals.

Had we squeezed in again, or been competitive at renewal time, they wouldn't be struggling in that regard.

That costs them $$$ and I hope doesn't effect the blueprint.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:41 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
I was a fan of trading Goc the last couple weeks but I've had a change of heart. The guy is just so versatile in all situations I would like to see him back for the remaining year. I'm starting to think he's worth 2 picks(2nd and conditional 2nd like Murray from SJ) and not just a 2nd OR 3rd rounder.

Tallon has alot to decide in the next 8 days regarding our Center depth for next year.

Matthias should be a no-brainer to re-sign and I feel he could take over the #2 guy at Center in 2013-14. The guy has shown tremendous heart and determination this whole year and has stepped up his game.

Shore will be back but I'm starting to think he's more suited for a 4th line role than the 2nd line role. The Kid Line HAD success early but has faded the last couple weeks. I think Shore should be developed into a gritty bottom 6 Center moving forward.

Goc is a jack of all trades and should be a lock for 3rd line Center next year as long as we find a replacement (Bozak or Roy) for Weiss unless pigs fly and #9 is persuaded back to be a Panther.

Bjugstad isn't a lock to crack the lineup next year but I'd love to see what he can bring next year, he is NHL ready in terms of size but I feel he will need time to adapt as all young guys do. I expect the 9 game minimum from him and sent to SA for at least a year.

So to wrap up, my thoughts are to keep Goc as we have a ton of YOUTH at Center but not alot of guys ready to tackle the #1 and #2 spots for next year. I know we have some growing pains ahead but it's evident we have a gapping hole at #1 Center if Weiss doesn't return or a replacement isn't signed in FA.
There is no way Matthias is suited for second line center duties. Despite his offensive highlight goals the last month he doesn't really make the guys around him better. He's just good on his own. 9 goals 3 assists... He's good for the third line spot.

Goc is better than Matthias by a lot but we might be able to get a very good return for him so he might be gone. I'm kinda against trading him.

If we're going to play Shore on the fourth line we might as well send him down to San Antonio. He's struggled to produce offensive as of late but so has that entire line. It might be the rough schedule wearing on Shore and Hubs. Shore iss too good for the fourth line, we'd be developing him poorly.

I agree, we have a glut of third line centers and some could slot on second line. Shore and Goc being those two. I do think Shore will win the second line center spot next year. He's got a great work ethic and will come into camp in tip top shape. Matthias needs to work on becoming a shut down guy because he could be a great shut down third line center. The type of guy you could roll out against the other team's best lines.

If we don't find a Weiss replacement, we're going to be in trouble next year.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:44 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
There is a financial ramifications btw to this poor season, regardless of where the fault lies.

Renewals.

Had we squeezed in again, or been competitive at renewal time, they wouldn't be struggling in that regard.

That costs them $$$ and I hope doesn't effect the blueprint.
100%. I think Tallon looks to move Kuba if he can. He has played much better of late. And hopefully Jovo retires. That should help a bit.
If money is an issue then your guy Kopecky could be dealt, imo. He's having a stellar season and everyone who could afford him would want him. That's more money they could save. I don't want him dealt but he'd return a lot.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:57 AM
  #38
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@luis gudbrunson

love that post, because its true, our fans are very "angry" fans. yea, i know we've been bad for a while and its frustrating, but its their job, their career, they dont do things to please us, i mean even at the games i sit by season ticket holders (like me) that are just soooooo angry during the entire game. makes the whole experience painful, and theyre our fans! unless its montreal or toronto or a team like that, more times than not the home fans actually make going to the games an unenjoyable experience unfortunately. SHOOT!!!!! HIT!!!!!!! how about shut up?! the nonstop sarcastic comments everytime they dont do something that pleases them, talking crap about a lot of the players, i wish i had earplugs. kinda off topic but i had to vent about it because its been bugging me for soooooo long now and your post kinda put the topic sorta out there.

as far as this thread, this is year 3 of a rebuild, and a true rebuild. drafted gudbranson, bjugstad, howden, petrovic, and many others. then in year 1 we cleaned house, started fresh, tanked and got huberdeau. made tons of signings, build some respect from around the league, but overachieved and actually made the playoffs and even won the division. this year, shortened season, injured like crazy, any team, no matter how good, if u have this many injuries, its kind of understandable to be where we're at. people dont like to use it as an excuse but how cant you? next year we'll be fine, if we draft mackinnon or drouin, along with bjugstad playing, and everyone (flash, versteeg, huberdeau, bergenheim, goc, kopecky, possibly mueller if he resigns) hopefully staying healthy. markstroms getting some experience. kulikov and gudbranson continue to grow and mature, buyout jovo and upshall, sign a top-4 D to play with kulikov on the 2nd line (weaver-kuba on the 3rd). if we're healthy next season, we should be fine. and keep in mind we're still in the rebuild.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:57 AM
  #39
adam graves
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
100%. I think Tallon looks to move Kuba if he can. He has played much better of late. And hopefully Jovo retires. That should help a bit.
If money is an issue then your guy Kopecky could be dealt, imo. He's having a stellar season and everyone who could afford him would want him. That's more money they could save. I don't want him dealt but he'd return a lot.
Point very well taken, but ouch i hope not. Hes an ingredient (albeit not a main one) to any winning team.

They need a playoff team next year and a little bit of a july splash to help with renewals.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:58 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
There is no way Matthias is suited for second line center duties. Despite his offensive highlight goals the last month he doesn't really make the guys around him better. He's just good on his own. 9 goals 3 assists... He's good for the third line spot.

Goc is better than Matthias by a lot but we might be able to get a very good return for him so he might be gone. I'm kinda against trading him.

If we're going to play Shore on the fourth line we might as well send him down to San Antonio. He's struggled to produce offensive as of late but so has that entire line. It might be the rough schedule wearing on Shore and Hubs. Shore iss too good for the fourth line, we'd be developing him poorly.

I agree, we have a glut of third line centers and some could slot on second line. Shore and Goc being those two. I do think Shore will win the second line center spot next year. He's got a great work ethic and will come into camp in tip top shape. Matthias needs to work on becoming a shut down guy because he could be a great shut down third line center. The type of guy you could roll out against the other team's best lines.

If we don't find a Weiss replacement, we're going to be in trouble next year.
I think if Dineen would try replacing Shore with Matthias, we would see that he COULD make those around him better(Hubs and Mueller). I feel Shore and Matthias will be fighting for the 2nd line Center next year and possibly the year after which is healthy competition and amazing for our franchise.

Matthias is at the crossroads of "becoming" a 2nd line Center or "cementing" his role as a 3rd line Center. Time will tell I guess.

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Old
03-26-2013, 11:04 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
I think if Dineen would try replacing Shore with Matthias, we would see that he COULD make those around him better(Hubs and Mueller). I feel Shore and Matthias will be fighting for the 2nd line Center next year and possibly the year after which is healthy competition and amazing for our franchise.

Matthias is at the crossroads of "becoming" a 2nd line Center or "cementing" his role as a 3rd line Center. Time will tell I guess.
They definitely will fight for it and Matthias still doesn't get enough ice time because Dineen is weird like that. I'm just adamant about turning Matthias into a premier shut down third line center. He can skate with anyone and has the size to match up with anyone too.

Joel Quenville put Frolik on the fourth line in Chicago and turned him into a great penalty killer who can now slot in on any line when needed. I don't know why Dineen doesn't try to mold players like that?

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03-26-2013, 11:20 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
They definitely will fight for it and Matthias still doesn't get enough ice time because Dineen is weird like that. I'm just adamant about turning Matthias into a premier shut down third line center. He can skate with anyone and has the size to match up with anyone too.

Joel Quenville put Frolik on the fourth line in Chicago and turned him into a great penalty killer who can now slot in on any line when needed. I don't know why Dineen doesn't try to mold players like that?
I think Shore could be molded that way as well. I don't feel he's "assumed" the 2nd line Center role based on a shortened season and an injury plagued team. Shore could be a younger version of Matthias, they could both fill #2 or #3 slots.

I often when thinking of a Huberdeau - Matthias - Bjugstad powerplay unit in two years time.

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03-26-2013, 11:21 AM
  #43
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I think Shore could be molded that way as well. I don't feel he's "assumed" the 2nd line Center role based on a shortened season and an injury plagued team. Shore could be a younger version of Mattias, they could both fill #2 or #3 slots.

I often when thinking of a Huberdeau - Matthias - Bjugstad powerplay unit in two years time.
I think that's what you try to turn them into when they don't live up to their potential. Way too early to take that route with Shore.

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03-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #44
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Saw this post coming..

People just need to be patient. It's not easy to erase a decade of destruction.

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03-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #45
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I think that's what you try to turn them into when they don't live up to their potential. Way too early to take that route with Shore.
I'm not giving up on him, just saying Matthias has earned his stripes and should be considered for the #2 Center for the rest of the year and for next year. Moving Matthias up to that spot means Shore is bumped down, not becuse of me throwing the towel in on the kid but more because I feel Matthias deserves it more right now.

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03-26-2013, 02:40 PM
  #46
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The Florida Panthers, we'll be better next year!

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04-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #47
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When Garrison first showed any promise, he was about as good as he is for Vancouver this year. Not great defensively, not great offensively... a 5-6 type guy who, through virtue of injuries and lack of depth, was getting top minutes in Fla.
Oh please. Garrison was great his last 2 years here and as a shut-down defenseman, he was worth $3.5M-4M a year. The offense he brings allows him to make more. Garrison averaged over 21 min a game with the Canucks this season. Name a 5-6 guy who averages that much ice time.


[QUOTE=Holy Jokinen;62389647]
Then, he put up his huge year with Campbell feeding his wheelhouse, and by then he was an expiring UFA, with his sights set on his hometown team. There's nothing we could've done there
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Garrison was not signed, you're right, but from what I've heard he also took a discount when he signed for Vancouver. Would you have paid him 5+ mil?
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And garrison wanted Vancouver, period, don't conveniently forget that.
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It was Vancouver. He wanted to go home, and you cant blame him for that. He didnt shut it down like Bouwmeester did, and he did respect the Panthers enough to listen to our offer.
There were reports that Garrison could have gotten Wideman money, but his heart was set on either Vancouver or Florida. Did Tallon even offer Garrison $4M a year? More than 3 years? I don't think Tallon's offer was close to being comparable to Vancouver's

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04-03-2013, 12:55 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
When Ellerby was traded, santos pointed out that he wasn't one of their guys. We've heard this before.
To reiterate, this is just blown out of proportion. Did you see Ellerby play? Mediocre player that made mistakes every game. Instead of keeping him around, trade him and try to get what you can in return. Specially since we have many more promising defensemen coming up (Robak, Petrovik, Brenan has been pretty solid so far, etc.)

You know who else was not drafted by Tallon? Markstrom, Kulikov, Robak, Shore.... and guess what? they are playing on the Panthers correct? You earn a spot by playing solid hockey, and displaying potential if you are a young player. The whole thing with Ellerby IMO is that Tallon didn't want to say straight up "he was not good enough", so rather be kinder and say he was not drafted by you and not part of your plans.

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04-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Mediocrity is a good thing in sports outside of North America?
I think he is referring to the fact that, as far as I am aware, North American sports are the only ones that have a draft based influx of young players, were the worst teams get the best chances to pick the best young players. So there is no way in hell that being terrible is in any way better than being mediocre, since there is no "draft position" reward at the end. Your team may even get demoted from the Major Leagues to the Minor Leagues, for instance.

Anywhere else in the world, using soccer for example, the only way to get better is either through spending money on players to become better, or scouting good players at an extremely young age and have them come up through our own player development program... and I am talking about kids as young as 9-10 years old.

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04-03-2013, 02:52 PM
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adam graves
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Tallon on having all three first rounders from 2010 on NHL ice Saturday: "Time flies when you're having fun.'' #FlaPanthers

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