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Old
03-25-2013, 06:09 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
you, sir, are in denial of the truth. or haven't watched the games, in my opinion.
The exact same could be said to you. Every conceivable metric, from statistics to performance vs cap hit to the eyeball test indicates to pretty much the entire hockey world that Bryz has had another bad year overall.

There's a reason whenever you watch a non-Philly broadcast, they talk about guys like Giroux and Voracek as being vital players, and the only mention of Bryzgalov tends to be about how he needs to finally step up, or how the Flyers need him to be better. It's also telling that quite a few times this year, while watching two random teams play, the broadcasters have mocked Bryzgalov while talking about the East or the Atlantic.

Maybe you've spent too much time watching the mostly lackluster and inconsistent goaltending the Flyers have had for the last 20 years and not enough time watching other teams with good goalies. It seems you don't know what good goaltending is. It's definitely not what the Flyers have gotten the last two years. If you want to expand that to just "reliable" goaltending, that streak goes even longer.

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03-25-2013, 06:17 PM
  #402
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As fun as it is to follow this conversational Tilt-A-Whirl, to veer in a different direction, how is Heeter looking? Any chance of him vying for the backup spot next season?

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03-25-2013, 06:23 PM
  #403
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what hasn't he shown? he plays every game and gives us a chance to win imo. were not a good defensive team. last night we played great and managed to neutralize a lot of the finesse they were bringing for most of the night but it looked to me like we were playin in a maxed out way. as hard as we possibly could and still made the mistakes at the end that we've been makin throughout the season. your opinion is a generalization of your made up mind from last year. we give him another year cause he HAS played well this year. i don't care about his numbers. this is a team sport. also who do we replace him with? everyone has these trades and moves worked out but (and i know this is an opinion board) but its all based of B.S. even if we can get bernier i still think we should keep bryz for next year. we definitely buy him out next summer tho. i love the guy but theres no way i can pretend that contract is not gonna kill us down the road. its just way too long and he is what he is. he is not gonna have a tim thomas year at age 37 which i think they were sorta thinking was gonna happen if you put him on our team. i do think its time for a coaching change tho. and i mean goaltending and head.
There are some things in this post that are true but others, not so much. Last night's game was an example of what it takes by the team to cover for Bryz. Everyone back in around the net to help him. The result; sporadic offense. Bryz has no glove hand to speak of. His best saves are when he puts his body onto a shot which leads to too much loose change in the crease. That pulls the Flyers defensemen back into the nets even more to clear out the rebounds. His lateral movement is barely adequate. If he is to stay as the goaltender, the entire organization has to be all in on playing like it did last night and maybe willing 2-1 or 3-2 games. If he allows three or more goals, the Flyers lose. IMO that is not the blueprint to winning hockey.

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03-25-2013, 06:29 PM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
There are some things in this post that are true but others, not so much. Last night's game was an example of what it takes by the team to cover for Bryz. Everyone back in around the net to help him. The result; sporadic offense. Bryz has no glove hand to speak of. His best saves are when he puts his body onto a shot which leads to too much loose change in the crease. That pulls the Flyers defensemen back into the nets even more to clear out the rebounds. His lateral movement is barely adequate. If he is to stay as the goaltender, the entire organization has to be all in on playing like it did last night and maybe willing 2-1 or 3-2 games. If he allows three or more goals, the Flyers lose. IMO that is not the blueprint to winning hockey.
I believe such a system fails to utilize the best talents of the roster overall, as well. While a new coach or a very new look certainly seems needed, going full Dale Hunter with the team would hold quite a few players back.

I think that's yet another reason to very strongly consider buying out Bryz; it's better to get a more self-sufficient goalie, rather than hold back the talent of the team so they can be human shields for him.

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03-25-2013, 06:36 PM
  #405
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Silly me. I forgot Bryz is the team MVP. Best player on the team. Gets no blame for anything.


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03-25-2013, 06:49 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
it's better to get a more self-sufficient goalie, rather than hold back the talent of the team so they can be human shields for him.
Well put. Frankly I found last night's game to be boring; little to no sustained Flyers offense. You knew that it would just be a matter of time before one got in on Bryz and it did. You can't play most of the night in your own end and expect to win.

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03-25-2013, 06:58 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
Well put. Frankly I found last night's game to be boring; little to no sustained Flyers offense. You knew that it would just be a matter of time before one got in on Bryz and it did. You can't play most of the night in your own end and expect to win.
I've noticed a trend recently; the Flyers often aren't forechecking very hard and they fail to establish pressure as a result. Of course, when they do, and the defensemen get active, bad things can occur since they aren't all that suited for such things.

Anyways, watch how often the Flyers skate in, pass the puck to the wing or center at the blue line, and then try to just pass back. It regularly doesn't work and the drive ends quickly. They aren't dumping the puck in and committing deep nearly as much as they used to. I suspect Lavi is trying to get the team to play more conservatively/defensively...probably because Bryz needs to be shielded as much as possible. It's affecting the offense quite badly; I don't think Lavi really knows how to reconcile the two coaching philosophies, and neither do the players.

It reminds me of the end of Boudreau's tenure. It was ineffective. And the root here: goaltending that simply cannot be relied upon.


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03-25-2013, 07:03 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
Last night's game was an example of what it takes by the team to cover for Bryz. Everyone back in around the net to help him. The result; sporadic offense.
and gave up 1 even strength goal to PITT ..... sign me up for more of that.

the Flyers finally limited odd man rushes, had fewer turnovers & all helped out in our zone .... and Bryz covered up for the few mistakes the team made. i thought that was called good team D ?


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The result; sporadic offense.
this team scored more than 2 goals 1 time in its 1st 8 games & 3 times in the 1st 13 games.
this offense IS sporadic, period. blaming THAT on Bryz is pretty funny, though

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His lateral movement is barely adequate.
i think that aspect of his game has been noticeably better than last year, and when he's gotten the chance to rest, he's looked as athletic as we could want

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If he allows three or more goals, the Flyers lose.
only 6 teams avg more than 3.00 goals per game. your statement is true for the 24 other teams

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03-25-2013, 07:08 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
and gave up 1 even strength goal to PITT ..... sign me up for more of that.

the Flyers finally limited odd man rushes, had fewer turnovers & all helped out in our zone .... and Bryz covered up for the few mistakes the team made. i thought that was called good team D ?
Hurray. They completely neutered they offense to shield Bryz. It sure worked out well, eh?

And before we start signing up for anything, let's not forget his performance last night is the exception...not the norm.

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03-25-2013, 07:11 PM
  #410
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The 5 on 5 offense has been bad for the entire season. You acting like it just happened last night because they were going out of their way to "shield" Bryz is farcical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I've noticed a trend recently; the Flyers often aren't forechecking very hard and they fail to establish pressure as a result. Of course, when they do, and the defensemen get active, bad things can occur since they aren't all that suited for such things.

Anyways, watch how often the Flyers skate in, pass the puck to the wing or center at the blue line, and then try to just pass back. It regularly doesn't work and the drive ends quickly. They aren't dumping the puck in and committing deep nearly as much as they used to. I suspect Lavi is trying to get the team to play more conservatively/defensively...probably because Bryz needs to be shielded as much as possible. It's affecting the offense quite badly; I don't think Lavi really knows how to reconcile the two coaching philosophies, and neither do the players.

It reminds me of the end of Boudreau's tenure. It was ineffective. And the root here: goaltending that simply cannot be relied upon.
Bryz is not playing well enough to justify his contract and a buyout should be on the table this offseason or next, but he is not the root cause of the Flyer's problems. The team in front of him has given up a ridiculous number of odd man rushes this year due to an over aggressive forecheck and bad pinches, and continually struggles to get the puck out of their own zone, often giving up juicy plays in the slot or wide open shots from the point that can be deflected.

The even strength offense has not been there all year long, and that has nothing to do with the goalie. Their system for getting the puck out and thru the neutral zone is a total mess.

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03-25-2013, 08:14 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
The 5 on 5 offense has been bad for the entire season. You acting like it just happened last night because they were going out of their way to "shield" Bryz is farcical.

The team in front of him has given up a ridiculous number of odd man rushes this year due to an over aggressive forecheck and bad pinches, and continually struggles to get the puck out of their own zone, often giving up juicy plays in the slot or wide open shots from the point that can be deflected.

The even strength offense has not been there all year long, and that has nothing to do with the goalie. Their system for getting the puck out and thru the neutral zone is a total mess.
i can only conclude that you have actually watched the games.

100% spot on. it's clear to see. pinning this year on Bryz is like whistling through the graveyard for many here ...... "everything will be fine, we just need a new goalie ...." .... for the 20th time in 22 years ...


ummmmm, NO. the goalie is not the problem. pretty much everyone except for Jake, Simmonds & Bryz ... along with the reasons you pointed& a frequent lack of hustle and "going through the motions" are the reasons why this team is a mess.

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03-25-2013, 08:18 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
The 5 on 5 offense has been bad for the entire season. You acting like it just happened last night because they were going out of their way to "shield" Bryz is farcical.


Of course it's been bad all year. Now that they're playing more defensively (and it's not just last night; they've been more restrained in the offensive zone for a while now...the things I've pointed out are an increasing trend that began well before the break), it makes an already struggling offense even less productive. It's not a good equation. On the one hand, other teams will probably score less. On the other, the offense will do less than they already are.



Quote:
Bryz is not playing well enough to justify his contract and a buyout should be on the table this offseason or next, but he is not the root cause of the Flyer's problems. The team in front of him has given up a ridiculous number of odd man rushes this year due to an over aggressive forecheck and bad pinches, and continually struggles to get the puck out of their own zone, often giving up juicy plays in the slot or wide open shots from the point that can be deflected.

The even strength offense has not been there all year long, and that has nothing to do with the goalie. Their system for getting the puck out and thru the neutral zone is a total mess.
The goalie is certainly making things worse. When you have to hang back to protect the guy who's been inconsistent as hell since early Feb, it's going to make an already struggling offense struggle more. When the team has to start changing how they play to help cover for the goaltending, it's generally going to hurt their performance.

It doesn't take much for one player to start having a large negative influence. Briere's poor D play and non-existent offense, as well as cap hit, are a big detriment. Last year, Carle's terrible shot made him a one dimensional player who was easy to defend, and the team generally produced goals at a lower rate while he was on the ice. Now that the Flyers are holding back offensively and trying to shelter Bryz more, the already struggling offense will only struggle more.


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03-25-2013, 08:21 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i can only conclude that you have actually watched the games.

100% spot on. it's clear to see. pinning this year on Bryz is like whistling through the graveyard for many here ...... "everything will be fine, we just need a new goalie ...." .... for the 20th time in 22 years ...


ummmmm, NO. the goalie is not the problem. pretty much everyone except for Jake, Simmonds & Bryz ... along with the reasons you pointed& a frequent lack of hustle and "going through the motions" are the reasons why this team is a mess.
I would argue that Grossman's been the only player on this team that's been consistently good all year.

Voracek was invisible for the first couple of weeks into the season. Simmonds really hasn't been playing well as of late and Bryz has had his fair share of bad games.

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03-25-2013, 08:51 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
and gave up 1 even strength goal to PITT ..... sign me up for more of that.

the Flyers finally limited odd man rushes, had fewer turnovers & all helped out in our zone .... and Bryz covered up for the few mistakes the team made. i thought that was called good team D ?




this team scored more than 2 goals 1 time in its 1st 8 games & 3 times in the 1st 13 games.
this offense IS sporadic, period. blaming THAT on Bryz is pretty funny, though


i think that aspect of his game has been noticeably better than last year, and when he's gotten the chance to rest, he's looked as athletic as we could want


only 6 teams avg more than 3.00 goals per game. your statement is true for the 24 other teams
Thye gave up one even strength goal and scored none themselves. Outstanding. Hope we can do that every night.
They played the entire game protecting Bryzgalov. Defensemen packed in down low as well as the forwards down near the face off circles. From there it was almost impossible to generate any rushes. If they keep playing like this they'll be hard pressed to score at all except on an occasional PP. They are clearly sacrificing offense to protect a weak goaltender who can't stand on his own.
How can you say that Bryz looks athletic when the guy can't catch? He has no glove hand. Teams know that and shoot glove hand high on him-see Kennedy's game winner. Lateral movement is weak and they challenge him with wrap arounds.

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03-25-2013, 08:53 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
There are some things in this post that are true but others, not so much. Last night's game was an example of what it takes by the team to cover for Bryz. Everyone back in around the net to help him. The result; sporadic offense. Bryz has no glove hand to speak of. His best saves are when he puts his body onto a shot which leads to too much loose change in the crease. That pulls the Flyers defensemen back into the nets even more to clear out the rebounds. His lateral movement is barely adequate. If he is to stay as the goaltender, the entire organization has to be all in on playing like it did last night and maybe willing 2-1 or 3-2 games. If he allows three or more goals, the Flyers lose. IMO that is not the blueprint to winning hockey.

dude. that is called defense. when teams don't do that they lose, especially against a team whose coaches seem to know how to not only run a power play with some quickness as to counter against standard, predictable penalty killing (which we did a good job of last night for the most part) but also allows their creative players to be creative offensively through good defensive positioning of all five guys in their zone. we don't even play strong fundamental hockey for long stretches of games. watch us just trying to make sloppy weak side passes out of our zone without looking half the time. were not real fluid and confident with some of the most simple plays. the young guys especially seem rushed and unaware which i think is a confidence issue this year. guys like giroux always make it look easy but overall we have trouble with some basic things. what i saw last night during their offensive rushes was some good anticipation and hustle but they back in and did the same thing defensively. bryzgalov is a big goalie. and i think he is fast, but no NHL goalie should be left alone to fend against 2 or 3 great players on a regular basis. we play with one foot out of the zone against most teams. if we play like we played last night for most of the season, we'd be in the playoffs, bryzgalov's numbers would be awesome and you would have a different opinion based off that. don't forget goalies have confidence issues when their teams play a certain way in front of them too.


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03-25-2013, 09:01 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i can only conclude that you have actually watched the games.

100% spot on. it's clear to see. pinning this year on Bryz is like whistling through the graveyard for many here ...... "everything will be fine, we just need a new goalie ...." .... for the 20th time in 22 years ...


ummmmm, NO. the goalie is not the problem. pretty much everyone except for Jake, Simmonds & Bryz ... along with the reasons you pointed& a frequent lack of hustle and "going through the motions" are the reasons why this team is a mess.
And this is where you lose credibility.

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03-25-2013, 09:06 PM
  #417
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So its fair to ask for top 6 performance out of the offense (wanting to see them consistently put up at least 3GF/gm) but its not alright to be mad at Bryz when he doesn't put up top 30 stats in goaltending.

lmao

Common sense has officially left the building.

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03-25-2013, 09:23 PM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
Thye gave up one even strength goal ....
Hope we can do that every night.
yup, i sure do.
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it was almost impossible to generate any rushes
lol ..... so whats your excuse the other 21 times this year when we scored 3 or less ?

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03-25-2013, 09:36 PM
  #419
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Bob gets another win tonight, 4-3 and it ties the Jackets for 8th place in the west. Amazing!
who would you like to see on the Flyers?

Bob or Quick ?

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03-25-2013, 09:42 PM
  #420
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who would you like to see on the Flyers?

Bob or Quick ?
I would take both of them over Bryz just talking from a pure talent standpoint. Before you bring up Quick stats this year, he had surgery in a short offseason in which he carried his team to a Stanley Cup win. That's better than any excuse people have used for Bryz these last two years.

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03-25-2013, 09:57 PM
  #421
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I would take both of them over Bryz just talking from a pure talent standpoint. Before you bring up Quick stats this year, he had surgery in a short offseason in which he carried his team to a Stanley Cup win. That's better than any excuse people have used for Bryz these last two years.
Yep. Quick's Stanley Cup is better than Bryz "super close" Venzina.

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03-25-2013, 09:59 PM
  #422
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Yep. Quick's Stanley Cup is better than Bryz "super close Venzina.
Don't forget the Conn Smythe.

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yup, i sure do.


lol ..... so whats your excuse the other 21 times this year when we scored 3 or less ?
You know how they generated less rushes than usual when they were playing a more open style?

They're going to generate a lot less playing a defensive shell.

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03-25-2013, 10:10 PM
  #423
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I would take both of them
who is the better goalie ? Bob or Quick ?

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03-25-2013, 10:17 PM
  #424
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Thye gave up one even strength goal and scored none themselves. Outstanding. Hope we can do that every night.
They played the entire game protecting Bryzgalov. Defensemen packed in down low as well as the forwards down near the face off circles. From there it was almost impossible to generate any rushes. If they keep playing like this they'll be hard pressed to score at all except on an occasional PP. They are clearly sacrificing offense to protect a weak goaltender who can't stand on his own.How can you say that Bryz looks athletic when the guy can't catch? He has no glove hand. Teams know that and shoot glove hand high on him-see Kennedy's game winner. Lateral movement is weak and they challenge him with wrap arounds.
Sounds like NYR and BOS. There is nothing wrong with that when you have young forwards making 8-9 bad dumps and line changes every game.

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03-25-2013, 10:31 PM
  #425
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Sounds like NYR and BOS.
correct. why on EARTH would we want to play D like the: 2nd best team overall last year in the standings & the 5th this year .....

hmmmm, maybe they're onto something ........

NAH, we've just had a 23 year goalie drought, that must be it !!

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