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2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 5/9) *Part III*

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03-25-2013, 04:09 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Good. Fast(h) better not be returning. This ludicrous ******** that he "had to play" in the WC was really pissing me off. Especially with the Swedes acting like they were loaning him to us when WE loaned him to THEM.
This. He's under contract with us... The NYR should have final say on where he plays.

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03-25-2013, 07:29 PM
  #427
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This. He's under contract with us... The NYR should have final say on where he plays.
Before he was under contract with us, he was under contract with HV71--and still is. The only reason he is allowed to sign with us while under contract to a Swedish club is because of the transfer agreement; and the transfer agreement gives the Swedish federation final say. It is what it is.

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03-25-2013, 08:11 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Before he was under contract with us, he was under contract with HV71--and still is. The only reason he is allowed to sign with us while under contract to a Swedish club is because of the transfer agreement; and the transfer agreement gives the Swedish federation final say. It is what it is.
The fact that he was loaned to Sweden should trump it though. Oh well..

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03-25-2013, 09:10 PM
  #429
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The fact that he was loaned to Sweden should trump it though. Oh well..

This is ridiculous. You can't make up what "should" happen. There is a contract between the NHL and the SEL. The terms of the contact govern.

Nobody cares who was the original "owner". Think of it this way: the landlord owns an apartment. He rents the apartment to the tenant. Now the tenant has full rights during the term of the lease. The landlord can't come in and say, "I own this apartment, get out" or even, "I own this apartment, I want to be able to come inside." No, once you rent the apartment, the tenant has the right to it for the term of the lease and the landlord needs to get the hell out of the way until the lease is over.

Now, you can argue that the "lease" on Fasth should be over now that he's eliminated from the playoffs, but that is your wishful thinking. The terms of the contract are very clear: the "lease" on Fasth goes on until and including the WHC. We may not like it, but our opinion is irrelevant here.

People here can whine that these are the terms of the contract, but inventing stuff is not helpful, nor honest.

Every time people use the word "fair" or "justice", whether in law or politics or anything else, you can bet your bottom dollar they are not asking for anything that is fair or just, they just want to get some unfair and unjust benefit for themselves.

For instance, it is unfair for me to want to keep my money, but it is fair if the government taxes more of my money to give it to you. On the other hand, while it is fair for the government to give my money to you, it would be an outrage if your money went to me.

Same here. It is unfair that the SEL is trying to keep their player for the rest of his "lease" or to get some benefit for allowing the "lease" to be broken, but it would be perfectly fair for a lease to be broken with no compensation to the Swedes. On the other hand, if Sweden got an NHL player in violation of the NHL-SEL agreement, there would be calls for a Jihad against the whole Scandinavia.

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03-25-2013, 09:18 PM
  #430
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By the way, I don't want to hear that I'm wrong in my interpretation because if that's the case, then why didn't NHL lawyers argue that? The NHL is agreeing with the SEL that the rights to Fasth until the WHC belong to the Swedes. That's why they are trying to offer something to the SEL to break the contract early.

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03-25-2013, 09:20 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
This is ridiculous. You can't make up what "should" happen. There is a contract between the NHL and the SEL. The terms of the contact govern.

Nobody cares who was the original "owner". Think of it this way: the landlord owns an apartment. He rents the apartment to the tenant. Now the tenant has full rights during the term of the lease. The landlord can't come in and say, "I own this apartment, get out" or even, "I own this apartment, I want to be able to come inside." No, once you rent the apartment, the tenant has the right to it for the term of the lease and the landlord needs to get the hell out of the way until the lease is over.

Now, you can argue that the "lease" on Fasth should be over now that he's eliminated from the playoffs, but that is your wishful thinking. The terms of the contract are very clear: the "lease" on Fasth goes on until and including the WHC. We may not like it, but our opinion is irrelevant here.

People here can whine that these are the terms of the contract, but inventing stuff is not helpful, nor honest.

Every time people use the word "fair" or "justice", whether in law or politics or anything else, you can bet your bottom dollar they are not asking for anything that is fair or just, they just want to get some unfair and unjust benefit for themselves.

For instance, it is unfair for me to want to keep my money, but it is fair if the government taxes more of my money to give it to you. On the other hand, while it is fair for the government to give my money to you, it would be an outrage if your money went to me.

Same here. It is unfair that the SEL is trying to keep their player for the rest of his "lease" or to get some benefit for allowing the "lease" to be broken, but it would be perfectly fair for a lease to be broken with no compensation to the Swedes. On the other hand, if Sweden got an NHL player in violation of the NHL-SEL agreement, there would be calls for a Jihad against the whole Scandinavia.
I don't need the process explained to me, thanks. I understand that there's contracts in place, however, the fan in me wants to see my team's prospect playing over here now and not be restricted by a ridiculous rule because the national team MIGHT need him.

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03-25-2013, 09:43 PM
  #432
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I'm not sure if anyone brought this up, but...

Douglas Murray (33 yr old / 3rd pairing / pending UFA) just got traded for a 2nd rounder and a conditional 2nd/3rd. He has gas left in the tank, but he's def not playing against your oppositions top players at this point.

I think this goes to show the value that big, physical, crease clearing defenseman have. If McIlrath can become a 2nd pairing defenseman with those types of attributes then that shows what type of value he potentially has. These players are absolutely coveted around the league, so I'm very happy that we may have our own.

**Please no Tarasenko/Fowler/Gormely talk - I am merely commenting on McIlraths potential attributes and value.**

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03-25-2013, 10:00 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
I'm not sure if anyone brought this up, but...

Douglas Murray (33 yr old / 3rd pairing / pending UFA) just got traded for a 2nd rounder and a conditional 2nd/3rd. He has gas left in the tank, but he's def not playing against your oppositions top players at this point.

I think this goes to show the value that big, physical, crease clearing defenseman have. If McIlrath can become a 2nd pairing defenseman with those types of attributes then that shows what type of value he potentially has. These players are absolutely coveted around the league, so I'm very happy that we may have our own.

**Please no Tarasenko/Fowler/Gormely talk - I am merely commenting on McIlraths potential attributes and value.**
I think a better comparison here would be Dan Girardi. Yeah he doesn't have that physical element that Murray does but he is far from soft and does a lot of the same things. Blocking shots, sacrificing his body to make plays, etc. The Rangers are going to have to make some decisions in the next few years with some UFA's and RFA's. Girardi could a be player who brings in a massive haul.

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03-25-2013, 10:15 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
I'm not sure if anyone brought this up, but...

Douglas Murray (33 yr old / 3rd pairing / pending UFA) just got traded for a 2nd rounder and a conditional 2nd/3rd. He has gas left in the tank, but he's def not playing against your oppositions top players at this point.

I think this goes to show the value that big, physical, crease clearing defenseman have. If McIlrath can become a 2nd pairing defenseman with those types of attributes then that shows what type of value he potentially has. These players are absolutely coveted around the league, so I'm very happy that we may have our own.

**Please no Tarasenko/Fowler/Gormely talk - I am merely commenting on McIlraths potential attributes and value.**
Well we used up an 11th overall pick for him so I sure hope he turns out to be worth at least 2 second rounders ...obviously hoping he turns out better then Murray.

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03-25-2013, 10:55 PM
  #435
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Could McIlrath over Fowler, Vlad, etc. possibly be any worse than Jessiman over Brown, Parise, Kesler, Richards, Getz, Perry, etc. or Sanguinetti over Giroux?

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03-25-2013, 10:57 PM
  #436
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Could McIlrath over Fowler, Vlad, etc. possibly be any worse than Jessiman over Brown, Parise, Kesler, Richards, Getz, Perry, etc. or Sanguinetti over Giroux?
Not any worse, but probably just as bad.

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03-25-2013, 10:58 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by jcman View Post
Could McIlrath over Fowler, Vlad, etc. possibly be any worse than Jessiman over Brown, Parise, Kesler, Richards, Getz, Perry, etc. or Sanguinetti over Giroux?
Curious, what do you base the comparison on?

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03-25-2013, 11:02 PM
  #438
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Curious, what do you base the comparison on?
That was a dead serious question

I have not had any opportunities to see McI play (the only knowledge of him I get is from on here) and everyone seems to call him a bad pick

Based on how we now know of all the missed opportunities from '03 and '06, what's the comparison like?

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03-25-2013, 11:09 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by jcman View Post
That was a dead serious question

I have not had any opportunities to see McI play (the only knowledge of him I get is from on here) and everyone seems to call him a bad pick

Based on how we now know of all the missed opportunities from '03 and '06, what's the comparison like?
I am not sure who everyone is, but most of the posters who watch him play and the guy who coaches him down in Hartford (Beukaboom) say he is doing great.

You can't say he was a bad pick until he plays in the NHL or doesn't ever. He should be ready next season and he will bring some toughness and crease clearing that this team sorely needs.

Go back few pages

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03-25-2013, 11:18 PM
  #440
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Sorry I'm a bit confused here. Is Zuccarello and Fasth coming?

Edit: Never mind just checked my own thread ahaha

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03-25-2013, 11:19 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by jcman View Post
That was a dead serious question

I have not had any opportunities to see McI play (the only knowledge of him I get is from on here) and everyone seems to call him a bad pick

Based on how we now know of all the missed opportunities from '03 and '06, what's the comparison like?
The only people who call him a "bad" pick are the usual loud, obnoxious 13-year-olds who seem to believe that all prospects, including big, physical defenseman, should break out of the gate immediately with flying colors. These same clowns would probably have praised Mike Milbury for trading Chara.

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03-25-2013, 11:26 PM
  #442
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I don't think McIlrath is ready to come until mid next season. I've been down to Hartford a few times and watched him play. Not so sure about 1st line pairing, he's not as smooth as some players, but over time he can learn. I look at him as our own Brooks Orpik (ceiling) or at worst Hal Gil (floor).

Think he's like 20, he's come a far way. Most people call him a bust because its been i think 3 drafts since I think we took him. He was raw and a huge project then, most people want results immediately, doesn't happen that way... especially with defensemen.

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03-25-2013, 11:28 PM
  #443
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I don't think McIlrath is ready to come until mid next season. I've been down to Hartford a few times and watched him play. Not so sure about 1st line pairing, he's not as smooth as some players, but over time he can learn. I look at him as our own Brooks Orpik (ceiling) or at worst Hal Gil (floor).

Think he's like 20, he's come a far way. Most people call him a bust because its been i think 3 drafts since I think we took him. He was raw and a huge project then, most people want results immediately, doesn't happen that way... especially with defensemen.
I'd say that is about right on target. The Rangers D is woefully lacking in a physical dimension, but the pay off on McIlrath being ready to go when he gets here is well worth the wait. Let him dominate some down there and then it will be time.

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03-25-2013, 11:32 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
The only people who call him a "bad" pick are the usual loud, obnoxious 13-year-olds who seem to believe that all prospects, including big, physical defenseman, should break out of the gate immediately with flying colors. These same clowns would probably have praised Mike Milbury for trading Chara.
Alright so it's safe to say we're still in "We'll have to wait and see" mode?

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03-25-2013, 11:32 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Well we used up an 11th overall pick for him so I sure hope he turns out to be worth at least 2 second rounders ...obviously hoping he turns out better then Murray.

But the point of what he argued was that even a third pair defenseman who's tough is worth two second rounders just one a single playoff run.

Let's dissect that:

1. MCI will probably be more than a third pair defenseman;
2. MCI will definitely be here for one than one playoff run, which alone gives him much more value than a pair of second rounders.



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03-25-2013, 11:33 PM
  #446
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I'd say that is about right on target. The Rangers D is woefully lacking in a physical dimension, but the pay off on McIlrath being ready to go when he gets here is well worth the wait. Let him dominate some down there and then it will be time.
Knock on wood it all goes according to plan. This guy is a psychopath. I love it.

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03-25-2013, 11:33 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I don't think McIlrath is ready to come until mid next season. I've been down to Hartford a few times and watched him play. Not so sure about 1st line pairing, he's not as smooth as some players, but over time he can learn. I look at him as our own Brooks Orpik (ceiling) or at worst Hal Gil (floor).

Think he's like 20, he's come a far way. Most people call him a bust because its been i think 3 drafts since I think we took him. He was raw and a huge project then, most people want results immediately, doesn't happen that way... especially with defensemen.
I sure to f***ing god hope so!!!

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03-25-2013, 11:34 PM
  #448
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Not any worse, but probably just as bad.
How is MCI as bad as Jessiman? He's almost certainly going to play in the NHL as a very valuable player.

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03-25-2013, 11:36 PM
  #449
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How is MCI as bad as Jessiman? He's almost certainly going to play in the NHL as a very valuable player.
I think we all know that Jessiman was a pretty bad pick, but McIlrath stills has that "if" factor. Only time will tell.

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03-25-2013, 11:41 PM
  #450
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I don't think McIlrath is ready to come until mid next season.
I don't think we know how quickly MCI makes it because it depends on what he himself does. The off-season will be key for him. If you look at what a player needs, he has almost everything: size, speed, on-ice vision, intelligence, passing, shooting, proper checks. He needs to work on his balance and small-step skating, but that can be learned in one month of hard training based on where he is now and where he has to be. If MCI works hard over the summer, he'll be in New York in October. If he's lazy, it might take him until the following year to make the NHL.

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