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Luongo for Grabovski

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:42 PM
  #776
CanuckLuck
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Laughing at fans using Luongo's last 15 games as a measurement of his ability rather than the last 8 seasons/600 games where he's around a .918 S%. Get real..Luongo has another 5 seasons in him of quality goaltending. Goaltenders of his ability play well in to their 30's.

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03-25-2013, 04:50 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Thats complete speculation on your part.

What if MG has a futures package from (say FLA).
Would it not make sense to hold Lu and make that deal in the offseason?
Doesnt make sense for Fla to improve/Van to get worse at this point.

Also, keep in mind the deadline is approaching. The time where 90% of players get traded...
So you accuse me of speculating and then you do what exactly....SPECULATE.

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03-25-2013, 04:51 PM
  #778
Al Swearengen
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
Yup teams should trade for who Lu used to be, not who he is now, makes a ton of sense.
In what way has Luongo changed?

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03-25-2013, 04:53 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
So you accuse me of speculating and then you do what exactly....SPECULATE.
You also claimed yours as an absolute statement "Luongo hasn't been traded yet because theres no offers". I brought up a potential situation that would make sense of why he hadn't been traded yet.

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03-25-2013, 05:05 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Actually I could see the market get bigger as teams will have more cap flexibility with the buyouts.
just because a team has 2 amnesty buyouts doesnt guarantee that they are going to use them. it is a significant amount of actual dollars to buyout a player. i also dont think that even if a team did use an amnesty buyout on a player they would want to immediately take on a player with a 10 year deal who is 33 years old.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Laughing at fans using Luongo's last 15 games as a measurement of his ability rather than the last 8 seasons/600 games where he's around a .918 S%. Get real..Luongo has another 5 seasons in him of quality goaltending. Goaltenders of his ability play well in to their 30's.
im not disputing luongo is a top 10 goalie in the nhl still and probably for the next 5 years as well but the problem is you can not guarantee his play which is why his contract his scary.

if someone offered you player x who is 33 years old with a $5.5 million cap hit x 10 years how fast would you rush out to scoop him up.

luongos contract is bitter sweat. its awsome for him that he has a ******** of $$$ coming to him but it makes it hard for him to get on with his hockey career. i get the impression that schneider is settling in now as the number 1. i can imagine it is only a matter of time until luongo forces gillis hand. im sure he will be quit through the playoffs but if preseason approaches and he isnt moved im sure his agent will #freeluongo

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03-25-2013, 05:10 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
You also claimed yours as an absolute statement "Luongo hasn't been traded yet because theres no offers". I brought up a potential situation that would make sense of why he hadn't been traded yet.
As far as the Leafs go, I think their soo happy that their offer of Kadri+ was turned down and any future offers will be significantly less.

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03-25-2013, 05:10 PM
  #782
crazycanuck
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
just because a team has 2 amnesty buyouts doesnt guarantee that they are going to use them. it is a significant amount of actual dollars to buyout a player. i also dont think that even if a team did use an amnesty buyout on a player they would want to immediately take on a player with a 10 year deal who is 33 years old.
Did I say it will get bigger? No, I said it could as in it might, it all depends on how teams do. If the Flyers miss the playoffs and feel that Bryz is a big reason why, would anyone be surprised if Holmgrem/Snider decide to buy him out?

I think certain teams would buyout a player or two to pickup Luongo if they feel that it makes them a better team.

Gillis is playing a very risky game of chicken here but there are still a lot of results that could/should turn out well for the Canucks.

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03-25-2013, 05:15 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
I would say Reimes and Lou's season are quite comparable. Lou has the better GAA than Reims but Reims has a better Save %.
That's fair enough, I just meant its a down season for him.


My main point is that Reimer has been decent so there's no need to panic and acquire a goalie like Luongo (even if he is very good). Instead of taking the reigns from Reimer it makes more sense for the Leafs to get him some support.

Trading for Luongo made a lot more sense this past offseason from Toronto's POV. Now not quite so much. It's probably best to let the idea die.

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03-25-2013, 05:19 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Actually I could see the market get bigger as teams will have more cap flexibility with the buyouts.
Like the other poster said, teams aren't going to buy out a player simply because they can. If they choose to use their amnesty buyouts I suspect it will be able to resign their RFA's and stay under the 64 mil cap. The teams that look to be in a position to afford Luo when the cap drops look to be teams that don't have $$ to pay more than the cap hit. So all in all it doesn't look good for Luo to be moved for any value. He may actually be a candidate for an amnesty buyout.

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03-25-2013, 05:29 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Did I say it will get bigger? No, I said it could as in it might, it all depends on how teams do. If the Flyers miss the playoffs and feel that Bryz is a big reason why, would anyone be surprised if Holmgrem/Snider decide to buy him out?

I think certain teams would buyout a player or two to pickup Luongo if they feel that it makes them a better team.

Gillis is playing a very risky game of chicken here but there are still a lot of results that could/should turn out well for the Canucks.
If a team has to buyout players to fit Luo under the cap then I highly doubt they would be willing to give anything for him except for salary. I honestly believe that if all other 29 teams were asked if they would pick up Luo off of waivers maybe 3 at most would. Gillis was hoping that big name goalies got hurt, flopped etc and a need for Luo would open up this year. On top of that Reimer/Scrivens play has and will continue to all but nullify the need for Luo. IMO it is turning into the worst case scenario for Van to get value for Luo.

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03-25-2013, 05:33 PM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
According to Allan Maki in The Globe and Mail this morning, Iginla listed four teams that he would accept a trade to: Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and LA. Pittsburgh already kicked the tires, thought the price was too high, and went with Morrow for Morrow instead. Boston allegedly inquired but likewise demurred for the time being.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle10275932/

No such news about Luongo.
Again, nothing about specific price.

Speculation says they went with Morrow as a direct, or even indirect result of not wanting to pay for Iginla. It would be stupid, IMO anyway, to pay for him too, but no one says they're out.

As for Boston, who knows, but its simply speculation saying they're active without something to back it up, even if it is someone much more respected writing it up then I am.

No such news about Luongo? Do you not remember all of the crap that was reported this summer? Including gems such as Gardiner+, Kadri+Bozak, he didn't waive his NTC and said no to Toronto, to Florida for Shore++, Chicago for Bolland or Kane, Columbus, San Jose, Washington, etc, etc, etc, etc...I mean I'd like to believe that was all fictitious based on me hitting my head or something, but all summer with that stuff, even through out the lock out in the fall and winter...and we're where with it?

Reporters take small stuff and balloon it up, and on more then a few occasions, especially involving Gillis, fail to get wind of a story until the last minute or even after the fact. For all we know, some of the less reputable guys get their stuff from us

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03-25-2013, 05:46 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
If a team has to buyout players to fit Luo under the cap then I highly doubt they would be willing to give anything for him except for salary. I honestly believe that if all other 29 teams were asked if they would pick up Luo off of waivers maybe 3 at most would. Gillis was hoping that big name goalies got hurt, flopped etc and a need for Luo would open up this year. On top of that Reimer/Scrivens play has and will continue to all but nullify the need for Luo. IMO it is turning into the worst case scenario for Van to get value for Luo.
What does a team having to buy out players have to do with Luongo's trade value? They are two separate things.

If a team feels acquiring Luongo makes them a better team then they will pay the appropriate price. Which won't be peanuts or a kings ransom as some have been promoting on here.

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03-25-2013, 06:10 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
What does a team having to buy out players have to do with Luongo's trade value? They are two separate things.

If a team feels acquiring Luongo makes them a better team then they will pay the appropriate price. Which won't be peanuts or a kings ransom as some have been promoting on here.
Exactly, I'm pretty sure Luo would make 3/4's of the teams better but its the price thats the issue. Not even the trade price, the contract price. I suspect if a team has interest in Luo they first look over their long term financial business plan and see if Luo on waivers is even workable and if the answer is yes then they have to factor in the contract cost against how much better Luo is than other options that won't handicap them cap wise. I really do think Gillis will be pushing Luo at other teams very hard this deadline and if no takers then all out begging this offseason then the buyout option comes into play.

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03-25-2013, 06:28 PM
  #789
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
...so where are the offers then? If GMs perceived him to be as good as he once was, even with that contract, somebody would have bit by now.
Where are the offers for every other goalie on the market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Grabovski + Scrivens for Luongo is an interesting talking point but the timing doesn't make much sense for Toronto. Luongo's not having a very good year thus far and Jimmy Reims has been decent for the Leafs. I think they are better off with a cheaper consistent vet backup to support Reimer than they are grabbing a huge contract. Its just too much of a gamble given how Reimer has been playing. If he and Scrivens were both tanking a more emergency move like this would make sense but as it is...not so sure its in the team's best interest.

However, adding in Biggs and a 2nd is far too much from my POV. I wouldn't do it.


There is a reason he was in the Vezina conversation earlier in the year. He's not there anymore obviously. But that's a combination of him not getting a long run of starts, and our team playing like butter crap up until Cory went on his most recent run.

He is having a fine year and is still an elite goaltender. He is definetly better than any of your current options.


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Grabo + Reimer > Luongo
Funny. I can play along aswell.

Hansen + Schroeder > Kessel

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03-25-2013, 06:35 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Actually I could see the market get bigger as teams will have more cap flexibility with the buyouts.
Good luck with that. Too bad that doesnt change the length of his contract. Enjoy him for the next 10 years, he isnt going anywhere.

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03-25-2013, 06:42 PM
  #791
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I still don't get how Leaf fans can be chirping Canucks fans right now. The Canucks decision not to trade Luongo in the off-season is paying off in that he has helped them win enough games to maintain their division lead and be in a comfortable-ish spot to make the playoffs.

The Leafs are in a less comfortable spot to make the playoffs and could potentially be more comfortably in the playoffs if they had traded for Luongo...if the Leafs miss again this year have they really won the non-trade?

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03-25-2013, 06:54 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Where are the offers for every other goalie on the market?
Are you saying Luongo is just another goalie on the market? I mean, in a way, he is one of several possible solutions for somebody. But his skill is compromised by that contract. Which is why teams, including Toronto, may well look around for less expensive alternatives. He appears to be a luxury item that is priced outside what the market wants to spend.

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03-25-2013, 06:57 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I still don't get how Leaf fans can be chirping Canucks fans right now. The Canucks decision not to trade Luongo in the off-season is paying off in that he has helped them win enough games to maintain their division lead and be in a comfortable-ish spot to make the playoffs.

The Leafs are in a less comfortable spot to make the playoffs and could potentially be more comfortably in the playoffs if they had traded for Luongo...if the Leafs miss again this year have they really won the non-trade?
The sooner Nuck fans realize the Leafs dont want anything to do with that contract, the easier it will be to swallow that pill. move on, and enjoy Lou in Vancouver for many many years to come.

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03-25-2013, 06:58 PM
  #794
kihei
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
The Leafs are in a less comfortable spot to make the playoffs and could potentially be more comfortably in the playoffs if they had traded for Luongo...if the Leafs miss again this year have they really won the non-trade?
If it meant keeping Kadri, what do you think? (If he was ever offered in the first place, which I doubt). But in a way you almost get the point: Luongo as a short term solution doesn't help us unless the price is right--that's why Grabo and Scrivens is as high as most of us Leaf fans would be willing to go. If that's not enough, fine with me.

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03-25-2013, 07:16 PM
  #795
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
Are you saying Luongo is just another goalie on the market? I mean, in a way, he is one of several possible solutions for somebody. But his skill is compromised by that contract. Which is why teams, including Toronto, may well look around for less expensive alternatives. He appears to be a luxury item that is priced outside what the market wants to spend.
No, hes the best goalie. But there are other good goalies out there, and good young goalies. Miller, Bishop, Bernier, Kiprusoff, possibly others.

But I don't see any more interest in them than there is in Luongo. Yeah his contract isn't great (though not as bad as its made out to be) but he is worth it due to his level or performance he brings. So people can look passed it.

Unfortunately right now there isn't a market for any goaltender, not just Luongo. So we are going to have to wait it seems.

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03-25-2013, 08:25 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I still don't get how Leaf fans can be chirping Canucks fans right now. The Canucks decision not to trade Luongo in the off-season is paying off in that he has helped them win enough games to maintain their division lead and be in a comfortable-ish spot to make the playoffs.

The Leafs are in a less comfortable spot to make the playoffs and could potentially be more comfortably in the playoffs if they had traded for Luongo...if the Leafs miss again this year have they really won the non-trade?
One team was considered a bubble team to make the playoffs, at best. The other was considered genuine Stanley Cup contenders for the next year or two. Care to guess which is which? The Canucks are three points ahead of the Leafs. Playing that card makes you look like you are reaching. Your team is drastically underachieving, injuries or not.. The Leafs? Anything but.

So, if the Leafs had traded Kadri, Bozak and a first for Luongo, you think we'd be in a better spot than we are now, with Reimer, Scrivens, Kadri and Bozak in the fold? You think minus Kadri and plus Luongo would have us battling for the division lead?

Looking at the numbers, not sure what Luongo could have done for us that Reimer/Scrivens haven't this year when it comes to making the Leafs a playoff team.

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03-25-2013, 09:18 PM
  #797
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I don't like this thread, makes far too much sense.

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03-25-2013, 09:25 PM
  #798
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If TO is alright with Reimer, needs Grabs to take immediate pressure off Kadri, and Luongo has refused to waive his NTC to go to TO, then it makes total sense that yet another 1000 post thread should be burned on the subject.


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03-25-2013, 11:35 PM
  #799
Spazmatic Dan
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post




There is a reason he was in the Vezina conversation earlier in the year. He's not there anymore obviously. But that's a combination of him not getting a long run of starts, and our team playing like butter crap up until Cory went on his most recent run.

He is having a fine year and is still an elite goaltender. He is definetly better than any of your current options.
Okay that's fine I just meant his stats aren't where they usually are at this point. I didn't mean he's doing horrible.

He's a better goalie than Reimer at this point but I just don't see the purpose of trading for Luongo and giving him the starting job instead of getting a cheaper vet backup to support Reimer since he's been pretty decent this year. It would make a lot more sense for the Leafs to go with the young growing goalie because of where the team is at. My opinion of course.

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03-26-2013, 03:38 AM
  #800
kihei
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
There is a reason he was in the Vezina conversation earlier in the year. He's not there anymore obviously. But that's a combination of him not getting a long run of starts, and our team playing like butter crap up until Cory went on his most recent run.

He is having a fine year and is still an elite goaltender. He is definetly better than any of your current options.
Voodoo logic.

Are you actually suggesting that Luongo has had a better year than Reimer? If you want to talk about current, okay, let's talk current.

GAA

Luongo 2.47
Reimer 2.64

Advantage Luongo

Save %

Luongo .904
Reimer .918

Advantage Reimer

W/L/OTl

Luongo 7-4-3
Reimer 11-4-4

Advantage Reimer

Team improvement in the standings over last year

Vancouver -3
Toronto +7

Advantage Reimer

Defensive Support

Luongo, with the lower save %, plays in front of a top four defense that includes Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa and Garrison

Reimer, with the higher save %, plays in front of a top four defense that before last week included Phaneuf, Holzer, Gunnarsson, and Kostka

More impressive performance: Reimer



Forget Grabovski. Why would we trade our goaltender straight up for your goaltended, especially when one figures in the difference in age and the horrible contract?

Luongo was an elite goaltender. He isn't that anymore. Currently he is

18 th in GAA
32 nd (tie) in wins
28 th (tie) in save %

You can say what you want about the past, and I'd probably agree with much of it. But this year, based on actual play, Roberto is not one of the top ten goalies in the league, much less elite.

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