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03-25-2013, 11:39 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
correct. why on EARTH would we want to play D like the: 2nd best team overall last year in the standings & the 5th this year .....

hmmmm, maybe they're onto something ........

NAH, we've just had a 23 year goalie drought, that must be it !!
How about because we don't have the two way forwards to do it? Gagne isn't as good as he once was, Fedotenko can't play offense, Richards and Carter are gone, Couturier is stagnant, and we don't have a reliable goalie. We have no Chara either.

We can't play like Boston because we aren't built like Boston. I have a better idea: how about we figure out what the team's strengths are and figure out how to play to them. How about we just be the Flyers instead of trying to rip off someone else.

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03-25-2013, 11:48 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
How about because we don't have the two way forwards to do it? Gagne isn't as good as he once was, Fedotenko can't play offense, Richards and Carter are gone, Couturier is stagnant, and we don't have a reliable goalie. We have no Chara either.

We can't play like Boston because we aren't built like Boston. I have a better idea: how about we figure out what the team's strengths are and figure out how to play to them. How about we just be the Flyers instead of trying to rip off someone else.
It's ok, if it weren't for bryz we would have the worst team in nhl history

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03-25-2013, 11:49 PM
  #428
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The goalie is certainly making things worse. When you have to hang back to protect the guy who's been inconsistent as hell since early Feb, it's going to make an already struggling offense struggle more. When the team has to start changing how they play to help cover for the goaltending, it's generally going to hurt their performance.

It doesn't take much for one player to start having a large negative influence. Briere's poor D play and non-existent offense, as well as cap hit, are a big detriment. Last year, Carle's terrible shot made him a one dimensional player who was easy to defend, and the team generally produced goals at a lower rate while he was on the ice. Now that the Flyers are holding back offensively and trying to shelter Bryz more, the already struggling offense will only struggle more.
I don't see a problem with the team doing more of a collapse to be stingy on defense. Yes, Bryzgalov needs to be better and more consistent. But there are a lot of good teams whose forwards are consistently deep in the defensive zone. And the forwards are young and skilled enough to be better and more creative on the breakout. We know the team needs a good PMD or two to initiate the transition, but the offense, like you said, has been so predictable and uninspired. This is where the coaching staff needs to give a rethink to how they are moving the puck from defense to offense and taking advantage of the skill of their young forwards.

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03-25-2013, 11:58 PM
  #429
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I don't see a problem with the team doing more of a collapse to be stingy on defense. Yes, Bryzgalov needs to be better and more consistent. But there are a lot of good teams whose forwards are consistently deep in the defensive zone. And the forwards are young and skilled enough to be better and more creative on the breakout. We know the team needs a good PMD or two to initiate the transition, but the offense, like you said, has been so predictable and uninspired. This is where the coaching staff needs to give a rethink to how they are moving the puck from defense to offense and taking advantage of the skill of their young forwards.
I just don't think they have the personnel to play that style effectively. I think that holds them back more than it aids them, like the Caps last year. That team doesn't make the playoffs if not for their weak division.

Also, I'm sad your Heeter question wasn't answered. I'm curious as well.

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03-26-2013, 12:10 AM
  #430
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I just don't think they have the personnel to play that style effectively. I think that holds them back more than it aids them, like the Caps last year. That team doesn't make the playoffs if not for their weak division.

Also, I'm sad your Heeter question wasn't answered. I'm curious as well.
They can start by improving their simple passing and receiving pass skills. One to two short passes and they break out of their end with purpose. This should be the goal. And with Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, Couturier and Read, they shouldn't be having the puck-moving trouble they are demonstrating.

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03-26-2013, 12:11 AM
  #431
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They can start by improving their simple passing and receiving pass skills. One to two short passes and they break out of their end with purpose. This should be the goal. And with Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, Couturier and Read, they shouldn't be having the puck-moving trouble they are demonstrating.
It is distressing. I think the forwards have been the biggest problem in this regard. Dmen give them the puck, then they have a mini-stroke all the way through the neutral zone...if they make it that far.

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03-26-2013, 12:13 AM
  #432
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it's baffling to see people here to say "our goalie isn't good enough", then give reasons why the team shouldn't play a more defense oriented system

HUH ??

so, we should mostly concentrate on O, and not try to tighten up defensively with a 'poor goalie' in net ?

teams like NYR & BOS tighten up defensively with the King & the 2nd best save % goalie in the league

did anybody else notice that we held PITT to 1 even strength goal [and even that was 4 on 4] ?
this team sure looked better defensively to me. as they did last March.

oh, and by the way, Bryz looked great last march & great last night.

seeing a pattern here ?

NO reason we cant tighten up defensively. saying we don't have the personnel of BOS & NYR makes no sense.

they sure were good defensively vs PITT. they CAN do it. i watched it.

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03-26-2013, 12:19 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
it's baffling to see people here to say "our goalie isn't good enough", then give reasons why the team shouldn't play a more defense oriented system

HUH ??

so, we should mostly concentrate on O, and not try to tighten up defensively with a 'poor goalie' in net ?

teams like NYR & BOS tighten up defensively with the King & the 2nd best save % goalie in the league

did anybody else notice that we held PITT to 1 even strength goal [and even that was 4 on 4] ?
this team sure looked better defensively to me. as they did last March.

oh, and by the way, Bryz looked great last march & great last night.

seeing a pattern here ?

NO reason we cant tighten up defensively. saying we don't have the personnel of BOS & NYR makes no sense.

they sure were good defensively vs PITT. they CAN do it. i watched it.
They lost. How is that "doing it?" They generated even less offense at even strength than usual.

Personnel DOES matter, unless you can provide a decent argument otherwise. I mean, what stops every team in the league from being Boston or NYR? Why doesn't Montreal just play like Boston? I'm sure the Islanders will be pleased to know they can be successful if they just play like Boston, even though their team doesn't have the players for it...just like the Flyers.

If the whole team has to dumb down their scoring ability and play a style the team isn't truly designed for when they're already bad at scoring to compensate for the goalie, the goalie should be replaced instead.

Edit: You've once again mentioned March, one of our worst months defensively last year, as being good. They spent long stretches getting pounded in the defensive zone last March. Your ability to simply make things up continues to puzzle me...especially since you're taking credit away from Bryz by doing so. On the other hand, December, one of the best defensive months, was his worst. There's no correlation.

Edit: I think it's worth it to point out the true hilarity of this "oh, just copy Boston, problem solved!" mentality. If Jack Edwards and Bruins fans are to be believed, Boston built that team to fit the mold of the 2010 Flyers coached by Laviolette. They wanted to match the toughness, determination, and two way play. So...you suggest we copy a team that copied our team. Right.


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03-26-2013, 12:32 AM
  #434
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who is the better goalie ? Bob or Quick ?
Right now Quick. That answer could change in a year or two.

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03-26-2013, 12:37 AM
  #435
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Right now Quick. That answer could change in a year or two.
how many more wins after 31 games do you think the Flyers would have if Quick [of last year] was playing on the Flyers this year ?

they are 13 - 16 - 2

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03-26-2013, 12:41 AM
  #436
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how many more wins after 31 games do you think the Flyers would have if Quick [of last year] was playing on the Flyers this year ?

they are 13 - 16 - 2
Quite a few more.

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03-26-2013, 12:50 AM
  #437
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how many more wins after 31 games do you think the Flyers would have if Quick [of last year] was playing on the Flyers this year ?

they are 13 - 16 - 2
I don't think we would have a losing record right now. He was that good last year.

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03-26-2013, 12:52 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
how many more wins after 31 games do you think the Flyers would have if Quick [of last year] was playing on the Flyers this year ?

they are 13 - 16 - 2
i know what YOUR saying but is it me? or is everyone at this point sounding confused and contradicting themselves? you can't say the team sucks in front of bryz but then put that much blame on bryzgalov. It almost seems like some of these guys are saying were built for offense so we can't worry about playing so deep in our zone when defending cause it stifles our offense? but we have to to protect our crappy goalie? that makes no sense. so were not built to play at both ends of the ice. i go back to what i've always said about the way some people watch hockey. they look at the score and they go " goalie let in goals, goalie bad". its just stupid. every NHL team has to play defense to be successful. even if our offense are more slick creative players. even when were not playing tight defensively we don't score at will. so what is the point in not playing defense? less chances? i really don't get what some of these guys are saying. i do think if you put this team in 1992, our record would be a lot better. that would be awesome. that would be what i'd waste a time machine on. i wouldn't do anything cool. i'd do that. i'm a loser. i can't help it.


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03-26-2013, 12:56 AM
  #439
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and this team is capable of making lundqvist look like leighton some nights. i mean if everyone else is gonna throw out stupid assumptions on what other teams goalies could do here then there's mine. just as dumb as every other comparison.

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03-26-2013, 01:03 AM
  #440
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i know what YOUR saying but is it me? or is everyone at this point sounding confused and contradicting themselves? you can't say the team sucks in front of bryz but then put that much blame on bryzgalov. It almost seems like some of these guys are saying were built for offense so we can't worry about playing so deep in our zone when defending cause it stifles our offense? but we have to to protect our crappy goalie? that makes no sense. so were not built to play at both ends of the ice. i go back to what i've always said about the way some people watch hockey. they look at the score and they go " goalie let in goals, goalie bad". its just stupid. every NHL team has to play defense to be successful. even if our offense are more slick creative players. even when were not playing tight defensively we don't score at will. so what is the point in not playing defense? less chances? i really don't get what some of these guys are saying
It's possible for Bryz to suck independently of the team, you know. Nobody looks at the score and declares Bryz is bad. We declare him bad when he, you know...plays badly. Which happens to be disturbingly often for the second year in a row. He's a glorified Biron, except he's been worse.

I also don't see the contradiction at all about what happens when a team built for offense tries to cut down the offense and play defense to protect the goalie. Goal scoring goes down. That's not shocking. Considering that they're already struggling to score goals, it means the offense will be even worse.

Here's the thing: The Flyers haven't been THAT bad defensively. They've certainly been passable; better than several teams, even...teams who's goalies have done better than Bryz. However, Bryz hasn't been passable. So they've progressively cut back on offensive aggression to focus more on D, because Bryz apparently needs a perfect bubble to succeed.

Stop spouting this utter garbage that we're just watching the scores. We're watching the games. I've seen another underwhelming season in net. You know who else has seen the same thing? Practically every major analyst and media member. I hate this argument, but I'm forced to make it: neutral, outside observers paid for their knowledge of the game have been panning him all year. I guess they're just blind too, right?

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and this team is capable of making lundqvist look like leighton some nights. i mean if everyone else is gonna throw out stupid assumptions on what other teams goalies could do here then there's mine. just as dumb as every other comparison.
I've watched the Rangers have more than their fair share of terrible games in the last few years. He somehow didn't collapse and was often one of the few/only bright spots. He certainly wouldn't look like Leighton, or hell, even Bryz if he played here.

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03-26-2013, 01:11 AM
  #441
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It's possible for Bryz to suck independently of the team, you know. Nobody looks at the score and declares Bryz is bad. We declare him bad when he, you know...plays badly. Which happens to be disturbingly often for the second year in a row. He's a glorified Biron, except he's been worse.

I also don't see the contradiction at all about what happens when a team built for offense tries to cut down the offense and play defense to protect the goalie. Goal scoring goes down. That's not shocking. Considering that they're already struggling to score goals, it means the offense will be even worse.

Here's the thing: The Flyers haven't been THAT bad defensively. They've certainly been passable; better than several teams, even...teams who's goalies have done better than Bryz. However, Bryz hasn't been passable. So they've progressively cut back on offensive aggression to focus more on D, because Bryz apparently needs a perfect bubble to succeed.

Stop spouting this utter garbage that we're just watching the scores. We're watching the games. I've seen another underwhelming season in net. You know who else has seen the same thing? Practically every major analyst and media member. I hate this argument, but I'm forced to make it: neutral, outside observers paid for their knowledge of the game have been panning him all year. I guess they're just blind too, right?



I've watched the Rangers have more than their fair share of terrible games in the last few years. He somehow didn't collapse and was often one of the few/only bright spots. He certainly wouldn't look like Leighton, or hell, even Bryz if he played here.
you do keep saying that don't you? its funny too cause i here a lot of them saying he HAS NOT been the problem this year. I hear it a lot on the nhl channel on sirius xm and on hockey night in canada radio. none of those guys seem to blame him for this season. i know you guys were talking about a game a week or two ago tho. maybe a columbus game? where they were saying we must regret trading bob? but those announcers usually do play to the people watching the game.

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03-26-2013, 01:17 AM
  #442
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I don't think we would have a losing record right now. He was that good last year.

on this team, this year, what do you think he would do ?

16-13-2 ?

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03-26-2013, 01:18 AM
  #443
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you do keep saying that don't you? its funny too cause i here a lot of them saying he HAS NOT been the problem this year. I hear it a lot on the nhl channel on sirius xm and on hockey night in canada radio. none of those guys seem to blame him for this season. i know you guys were talking about a game a week or two ago tho. maybe a columbus game? where they were saying we must regret trading bob? but those announcers usually do play to the people watching the game.
He's not to blame for the season. Never have I claimed that. Anybody who claims that would be incorrect. However, that doesn't mean he's been good or even fine. He's been inconsistent at best (that's being generous) for over a month now. Since early February. It's utterly unacceptable for that type of performance for weeks on end. He's not solely to blame, but he's certainly been part of the problem and has given much reason to be concerned.

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03-26-2013, 01:20 AM
  #444
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on this team, this year, what do you think he would do ?

16-13-2 ?
Probably not. He's having a pretty rough year.

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03-26-2013, 01:23 AM
  #445
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i know what YOUR saying but is it me? or is everyone at this point sounding confused and contradicting themselves? you can't say the team sucks in front of bryz but then put that much blame on bryzgalov.

It almost seems like some of these guys are saying were built for offense so we can't worry about playing so deep in our zone when defending cause it stifles our offense? but we have to to protect our crappy goalie? that makes no sense.

so were not built to play at both ends of the ice. i go back to what i've always said about the way some people watch hockey. they look at the score and they go " goalie let in goals, goalie bad". its just stupid. every NHL team has to play defense to be successful. even if our offense are more slick creative players. even when were not playing tight defensively we don't score at will. so what is the point in not playing defense? less chances? i really don't get what some of these guys are saying.

you are 100% correct. it makes no sense.

"our goalie is bad, lets go forecheck more" as if they don't know how to tighten up defensively. of course they do. we watched it vs PITT.

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03-26-2013, 01:23 AM
  #446
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Probably not. He's having a pretty rough year.
i'm sorry: i meant Quick OF LAST YEAR playing on this team, this year, what do you think he would do ?

16-13-2 ?

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03-26-2013, 01:25 AM
  #447
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He's not to blame for the season. Never have I claimed that. Anybody who claims that would be incorrect. However, that doesn't mean he's been good or even fine. He's been inconsistent at best (that's being generous) for over a month now. Since early February. It's utterly unacceptable for that type of performance for weeks on end. He's not solely to blame, but he's certainly been part of the problem and has given much reason to be concerned.
i pretty much agree with you. i think he's been good enough to win tho. i know he's not doing anything spectacular but I'm more worried about the rest of the team. i see crappy passes, no chemistry, no back checking and teams show us how weak our power play is as soon as they put heat on us. the main thing that pisses me off about bryzgalov is that everyone acted like the defense in phoenix was unbelievable but they weren't and he did stand on his head there. i think he's been mindfuched since the second he got here. i really feel like he's capable of more but i don't think he's comfortable here. sucks. i think we need some third world goalie who doesn't know who we are. no pressure.

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03-26-2013, 01:27 AM
  #448
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Quite a few more.
just stop it man. If Bryzgalov cant lead us to a victory then there is no other goalie on the face of the planet who could. I mean come on man. Haven't you been watching the team MVP play this year?


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03-26-2013, 01:28 AM
  #449
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i'm sorry: i meant Quick OF LAST YEAR playing on this team, this year, what do you think he would do ?

16-13-2 ?
More than likely maybe even better. He was a game breaker in net all year last year.

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03-26-2013, 01:39 AM
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it IS a retarded argument we all have about this. I'm still pissed we got rid of biron. then we get a guy like bobrovsky and act like he's garbage. like they were oblivious to the fact that he was a kid playin out of his mind the second he got here. oh no. of course theres no potential there. why would WE need a goalie like him when we can have a second round pick? then we put all this money into bryzgalov, and i'm sorry but it seemed obvious enough to me that if he was uncomfortable playing here whether it was the system or other factors and we know he was a good goalie before we got him is it that farfetched to try and protect this investment by maybe hiring a better goalie coach? does jeff reese have pictures of homer blowing a goat? maybe i need to rethink being a flyers fan cause this team is run by retards. i just can't defend this stuff anymore. maybe we can hire another general manager with brain damage. jody shelly will be retiring soon. unless he gets a 5 year extension.

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