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03-25-2013, 05:36 PM
  #176
Crazed Beaver
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I speak to players on the leafs weekly and you can figure out which ones and having the 3 monsters they have hitting and opening up space for the guys has helped everyone play with more space and confidence.
You must be mistaken because according to some here scoring and toughness/fighting are independent from eachother. We need to get back to tough ranger hockey. Trade for clowe, and have ashem,newbs,Haley on fourth line. Trade Boyle,powe,pyett. Bring up big Mac as 6 d crease clearer!

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03-25-2013, 07:09 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
You must be mistaken because according to some here scoring and toughness/fighting are independent from eachother. We need to get back to tough ranger hockey. Trade for clowe, and have ashem,newbs,Haley on fourth line. Trade Boyle,powe,pyett. Bring up big Mac as 6 d crease clearer!
We don't need muscle...we just added Zucc and Fast...we are now the number 1 softest team in the league.

Watching the Rangers this year is so boring and pathetic it is like watching a bunch of cowards who try to keep their heads down and hope the other team doesn't get angry.

Last year every guy skated around knowing if things got rough they could bring out a warrior like Prust, a young guy with balls who was willing to go after the other teams star, Dubi and a heavy, Rupp. Then sprinkle in Bickel, who was hit or be hit type of fighter and you had 4-6 type of players who would get in your face.

We go to war in the playoffs, every game, every series, every round. The logical thing to do was bring in more size and grit, in addition to the Nash move.

Instead Sather and Torts decide to go in a totally different direction for no ****ing reason.

The Rangers could have made 3 simple moves. Sign Ryan Carter away from the Devils, sign Brad Staubitz and sign Sheldon Brookbank. Carter lessens the sting of losing Prust, Staubitz replaces Feds, thus losing Rupp easier this year and Brookbank gives you a gritty 10 minutes a game. Now, all the Rangers fans who don't like agression will **** on these moves, yet all three play for teams that are much better than the Rangers.

In Nov 2011, the Devil waived Mark Fraser, I prayed the Rangers would claim him...big, raw dman who could fight, yet those are the moves the Rangers never make...good hockey clubs would make those decisions.

Sather should retire or be fired..there was a big push a few years ago to get SAther fired and then all was forgiven for some reason...give the job to Gorton...the moves he made have propelled the Bruins to the top or if we really want to be crazy...throw the bank @ Ray Shero, God knows the retard owners aren't scared to throw money around on ****, why not make it worth it...give someon who knows what the **** he is doing the keys to the kingdom...not some old has been that rather go fishing and sleep.

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03-25-2013, 08:33 PM
  #178
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Gotta love players who want to punch their way to the cup.


How many fights were in last years playoffs?

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03-25-2013, 08:38 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Gotta love players who want to punch their way to the cup.


How many fights were in last years playoffs?

Habs got toughness and now top in the league. Rangers have a team of midgets and big players like Boyle and Pyatt that play small.

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03-25-2013, 08:44 PM
  #180
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I don't think it's a coincidence that the grittiest Ranger team in recent memory (up and down the roster) was the most successful in 15 years.

We don't need more John Scotts. But I would take all the Prusts and Dubis (no not actually Dubi at 4.5M) Sather can get his hands on. Much easier said than done, to be sure.

I really hope McIlrath can change the culture at some point (yes, while also being able to play a sound game in his own end). Really an unfair expectation but it is what it is.

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03-25-2013, 08:49 PM
  #181
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It's not just about fighting (though i would argue that still matters). It is about playing with an edge. It is about knowing that you can throw a hit or facewash an opponent when he sprays Hank and someone (or multiple someone's) one the ice will have your back.

It is about actually placing an effective screen on the opposing goaltender. It's about a blue collar mindset, watching your teammates play through pain and leave it all out there.

This team has glaringly little of that. They're not just soft because they don't fight or land open ice hits. They look extremely soft mentally, from my admittedly outside opinion.

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03-25-2013, 08:53 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Habs got toughness and now top in the league. Rangers have a team of midgets and big players like Boyle and Pyatt that play small.
Habs have 4 players with over 20 points, and even more with over 15. 13 players with over 10 points.

We have over half a dozen players with over 15 games and 2 points or fewer.

Prust's fists aren't winning them games. 4 goals and 5 assists from a 4th liner is helping them win.

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03-25-2013, 08:54 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I don't think it's a coincidence that the grittiest Ranger team in recent memory (up and down the roster) was the most successful in 15 years.

We don't need more John Scotts. But I would take all the Prusts and Dubis (no not actually Dubi at 4.5M) Sather can get his hands on. Much easier said than done, to be sure.

I really hope McIlrath can change the culture at some point (yes, while also being able to play a sound game in his own end). Really an unfair expectation but it is what it is.
I agree with this so hard. Being tough and being a fighter don't have to be the same thing.

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03-26-2013, 01:23 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I agree with this so hard. Being tough and being a fighter don't have to be the same thing.
You don't need just a goon tough hockey is team tough hockey.
Dubi
Prust
Valley
Rupp
Bickel
Sauer that was tough bunch guys to grind against

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Old
03-26-2013, 01:30 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
It's not just about fighting (though i would argue that still matters). It is about playing with an edge. It is about knowing that you can throw a hit or facewash an opponent when he sprays Hank and someone (or multiple someone's) one the ice will have your back.

It is about actually placing an effective screen on the opposing goaltender. It's about a blue collar mindset, watching your teammates play through pain and leave it all out there.

This team has glaringly little of that. They're not just soft because they don't fight or land open ice hits. They look extremely soft mentally, from my admittedly outside opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I don't think it's a coincidence that the grittiest Ranger team in recent memory (up and down the roster) was the most successful in 15 years.

We don't need more John Scotts. But I would take all the Prusts and Dubis (no not actually Dubi at 4.5M) Sather can get his hands on. Much easier said than done, to be sure.

I really hope McIlrath can change the culture at some point (yes, while also being able to play a sound game in his own end). Really an unfair expectation but it is what it is.
Well said.

Too many people equate toughness with dropping the gloves.

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Old
03-26-2013, 03:08 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
You don't need just a goon tough hockey is team tough hockey.
Dubi
Prust
Valley
Rupp
Bickel
Sauer that was tough bunch guys to grind against
I miss Dubi, Prust, and Sauer. Those guys were very helpful.

I wish Rupper was here when he was 5 years younger.

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:06 AM
  #187
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Nash leading us in PIM's..enough said.Even with Stu gone Nash should be about 10th on our team in PIM's

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03-26-2013, 09:17 AM
  #188
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Something I thought about last night, the Whale were seriously struggling to start the season. They had only Haley dressed who can handle himself. McIlrath returned, they brought in Mashinter and called up Carroll from the ECHL. They have been a different team. Not saying it is 100% the reason for their turn-around but to dismiss it, IMO, would be a mistake.

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03-26-2013, 09:47 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I don't think it's a coincidence that the grittiest Ranger team in recent memory (up and down the roster) was the most successful in 15 years.

We don't need more John Scotts. But I would take all the Prusts and Dubis (no not actually Dubi at 4.5M) Sather can get his hands on. Much easier said than done, to be sure.

I really hope McIlrath can change the culture at some point (yes, while also being able to play a sound game in his own end). Really an unfair expectation but it is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
It's not just about fighting (though i would argue that still matters). It is about playing with an edge. It is about knowing that you can throw a hit or facewash an opponent when he sprays Hank and someone (or multiple someone's) one the ice will have your back.

It is about actually placing an effective screen on the opposing goaltender. It's about a blue collar mindset, watching your teammates play through pain and leave it all out there.

This team has glaringly little of that. They're not just soft because they don't fight or land open ice hits. They look extremely soft mentally, from my admittedly outside opinion.
Agreed with both posts.

Prust and Dubi really bought into the team concept. From the moment they put on a Rangers sweater, they were willing to stand up for their teammates. And they didn't have to be told to do it.

I know a lot of people were saying over the summer that players like Prust and Dubi are easily replaceable. But it isn't always easy to find players who will support their teammates 110%. Some of the new guys the Rangers brought in this year, I'm really not seeing that type of mindset at all.

Backing up your teammates and playing as one unit is crucial in becoming a cup winning team. It's not always about talent, offense, defense, whatever. The Rangers need to find that cohesiveness again, become a tough team to play against and, most importantly, realize that they are a TEAM and not just individuals on the ice.

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:07 AM
  #190
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The Bruins are the gold standard for team toughness. Watching the game last night, every guy on every line has the other line mates back. Kinda like last year's Rangers.

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03-26-2013, 10:09 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Agreed with both posts.

Prust and Dubi really bought into the team concept. From the moment they put on a Rangers sweater, they were willing to stand up for their teammates. And they didn't have to be told to do it.

I know a lot of people were saying over the summer that players like Prust and Dubi are easily replaceable. But it isn't always easy to find players who will support their teammates 110%. Some of the new guys the Rangers brought in this year, I'm really not seeing that type of mindset at all.

Backing up your teammates and playing as one unit is crucial in becoming a cup winning team. It's not always about talent, offense, defense, whatever. The Rangers need to find that cohesiveness again, become a tough team to play against and, most importantly, realize that they are a TEAM and not just individuals on the ice.
i always wonder if no penalty was called on Kaleta for the Richards hit if someone would have did want Colton Orr did to him the other night... doubt it... Rangers need a brawl or a Matt Cooke type dirty hit to get them to stick up for each other... that is pretty sad...

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03-26-2013, 10:09 AM
  #192
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yet so many on this forum want 4 fast skill liines that turn the other cheek when things get tough...

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03-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
The Bruins are the gold standard for team toughness. Watching the game last night, every guy on every line has the other line mates back. Kinda like last year's Rangers.
The Kings and the Hawks play similarly. Vancouver has been trying to build towards that more and more as they realized skill only wasn't getting it done.

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03-26-2013, 10:45 AM
  #194
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The Kings and the Hawks play similarly. Vancouver has been trying to build towards that more and more as they realized skill only wasn't getting it done.
All those teams you mention also have generational talent that is far beyond ours, after Henrik that is.

Talent and toughness=Great team

Who woulda thunk it???

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03-26-2013, 11:16 AM
  #195
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yet so many on this forum want 4 fast skill liines that turn the other cheek when things get tough...
Amen. I don't get the need by some to differentiate between fighting and toughness. By their definition we would be fine with cally and girardi. These are grown men and a good asskicking or scrum after someone plows over Hank is necessary once in a while to inspire confidence.

Adam graves was toughest ranger I ever watched over my lifetime on the rangers. He had what we currently lack. Their were plenty of times he had to drop the gloves and he met that challenge willingly. Our current group doesn't do this, in fact none of our d do and none of top 9. Not a roster you go to battle with and they know it and play scared. Graves wasn't a fighter he was a great player who played fearless and also dropped em. He was "tough", girardi and cally are resilient with a high pain tolerance.

The answer isn't to bring in more one dimensional players who are soft as ****. The whole team is playing that way already and we are last in scoring.

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03-26-2013, 12:33 PM
  #196
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All those teams you mention also have generational talent that is far beyond ours, after Henrik that is.

Talent and toughness=Great team

Who woulda thunk it???
the thing tho all those teams had top 3 picks and got those generational talents.. its not rangers fault they havent sucked to the point where they have gotten the chance to tank.... we should of tanked way earlier on after the lockout to get those types of players.. after top 10 picks its hard.. its a crap shoot to get an nhl player let a lone a generational talent..

kings
doughty

blackhawks
toews
kane

pitsburgh
fleury
crosby
malkin

and i think we have plenty of skill, the problem is we let all our character guys go, and thats what wins hockey games to go along with skill..

even if we had one of either dubi or prust this team wouldve been in a lot better shape then it is now..

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03-26-2013, 12:36 PM
  #197
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Yes, it is their fault they have not sucked bad enough to get those kind of picks. FA signings ring a bell??

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03-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #198
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Yes, it is their fault they have not sucked bad enough to get those kind of picks. FA signings ring a bell??

hahah amen!!

but seriously i dont get slats thinking..

you sign

haley( 600K), asham (1m) eminger (750k), bickel (750k) halpern (700K) but we can't pony up that extra 500-600k to pay prust.. those are the things i dont get that slats does.. it makes no sense.. but he pays pyatt 2yr deal, when we couldve just pay feds 1yr deal for same money/no worse then same play and it wouldve gave us flexibility.. to make changes mid season or offseason..

we have a collection of screws but no bolts.. all pieces and nothing to do with them.. eminger has played well since his stint in ct.. so he gets a pass but i mean come on!!

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Old
04-01-2013, 02:02 PM
  #199
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We are the Smurfs once again

If we're gonna be the Smurfs at least score some goals.The truth hurts.



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04-01-2013, 02:49 PM
  #200
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A stupid question from yet another annoying Norwegian: Would anyone drop the gloves on Zuke? It might look a bit silly, especially if it's a proper fighter. And for a normal player they might even get some resistance as he is a tough little sicilian smurf, hitting from below / nut height.

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