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Danny Briere: activated Apr. 11 (concussion Mar. 25); Q and A article Apr. 11

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:19 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
It's a lot easier to play defense when you can grab guys by the neck as slash their ankles.
Sounds difficult.

Is that how he accomplished that?

I wonder when he had time to do that when he was busy putting up 1210 points.

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03-25-2013, 10:57 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Sounds difficult.

Is that how he accomplished that?

I wonder when he had time to do that when he was busy putting up 1210 points.
Trust me, Clarke made time for tactics like that. And I was a huge fan of his when he was leading the Flyers to their second Cup (the first Cup made me a fan).

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03-25-2013, 11:57 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Sounds difficult.

Is that how he accomplished that?

I wonder when he had time to do that when he was busy putting up 1210 points.
Well when you consider the goaltenders just kind of stood there...

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03-26-2013, 12:30 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
yep...in the playoffs...when you need them most

GP G A PTS
17 9 7 16
6 1 3 4
23 12 18 30 18
11 7 2 9 14
11 8 5 13 4

yes, those numbers suck....
Cherry picking stats. Now show his defensive stats since you're a stat guy. Show me minutes played, infact just go back and read a couple posts ago. Don't feel like repeating it.

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03-26-2013, 12:42 AM
  #780
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I did like the TSN article that said the Flyers job to secure a playoff spot just got tougher with the loss of Briere. Has the writer of that article seen Briere play this year? lol

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03-26-2013, 12:59 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Reduxs View Post
Patrick Kane is a career -11 in the playoffs, Stamkos is a career -14 in the regular season (-5 in the playoffs), Henrick Sedin is a career -15 in the playoffs and his brother is a -9. Do you want me to keep going? Are they not great players?
And everyone you just pointed out goes against either the top scoring unit or the top checking line. Danny has played easy minutes. Lavy tries to hide him and get him the correct matchups and he still struggles.

Listen, the point I'm trying to make is that he plays easy minutes against non defensive units and should produce. He's not. He hasn't the last year or so. That's why that +/- is more telling than what people here want to believe.

Truth is I don't need those stats to show his game. He's great around the net, still has decent speed and good leadership. However he's weak on the puck, loses most 1 on 1 battles in corners, doesn't create space and his back checking is well below par. He's a defensive liability and I don't think anyone here will argue that. But for the highest paid forward who can't play defense on a team already struggling with D and now can't score or create plays, I see no reason for him to stay.

Great? Really? I think it has a lot to do with fandom at this point more than anything. People just won't accept it and that's fine but I'd want the greater good for the team at this point.

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03-26-2013, 02:21 AM
  #782
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My wife has a prenup, and yet she ... wait, what were we talking about?

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03-26-2013, 02:54 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by martz11 View Post
And everyone you just pointed out goes against either the top scoring unit or the top checking line. Danny has played easy minutes. Lavy tries to hide him and get him the correct matchups and he still struggles.
.
I disagree with this. He doesn't really try that hard. Even when he has last switch, he has routinely put Briere's line against another good line, often regardless of where the faceoff takes place. A great example is the Boston series, for instance. It's one of the major criticisms against Laviolette. Lavy rolls with whatever line he feels like rolling with it seems, and it has often led to Briere and his line being matched against opponents they shouldn't be out against.

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03-26-2013, 06:21 AM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reduxs View Post
Patrick Kane is a career -11 in the playoffs, Stamkos is a career -14 in the regular season (-5 in the playoffs), Henrick Sedin is a career -15 in the playoffs and his brother is a -9. Do you want me to keep going? Are they not great players?
In the case of most of the guys you posted here, it's a case of 1-2 "bad" playoff runs obscuring several really really good ones.

If you go look at the Sedins, they are constantly at the top or in the middle of their team in terms of +/- in the playoffs, despite playing against the most difficult competition. Out of 9 times in the playoffs, Henrik Sedin posted a negative +/- 3 times. He was towards the bottom of his team only 2 times. Ditto Daniel Sedin.

Ditto Patrick Kane, he had 1 year where he was a -9, his first year in the playoffs, other than that he's been OK.

In Danny Briere's case, it's one really good playoff run (09-10) making his stats look a lot better than they really are. For 3 of his 5 playoff runs in Philadelphia, he's been at or near the bottom of the team in +/-. He's been a + player only 20% (1 out of the 5 playoffs) of the time.

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03-26-2013, 07:31 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Well when you consider the goaltenders just kind of stood there...
What? No.

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03-26-2013, 07:48 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
What? No.
The "just stood there" was an oversimplification, but the technique, flexibility and athleticism of goaltenders has undergone a sea change. A significant number of the goals a player like Lafleur scored with unscreened slap shots on the fly from just inside the blue line would be routine saves now. The game is much faster and goaltenders had to become faster to keep up.

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03-26-2013, 07:59 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
The "just stood there" was an oversimplification, but the technique, flexibility and athleticism of goaltenders has undergone a sea change. A significant number of the goals a player like Lafleur scored with unscreened slap shots on the fly from just inside the blue line would be routine saves now. The game is much faster and goaltenders had to become faster to keep up.
I agree.

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03-26-2013, 08:02 AM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
The "just stood there" was an oversimplification, but the technique, flexibility and athleticism of goaltenders has undergone a sea change. A significant number of the goals a player like Lafleur scored with unscreened slap shots on the fly from just inside the blue line would be routine saves now. The game is much faster and goaltenders had to become faster to keep up.
Haven't the amount of goals scored gone up since that time? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have made arguments like that before and my one friend always pulls out these stats that say there are more goals scored now than there were back then. Anyone have any type of insight into this?

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03-26-2013, 08:16 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haven't the amount of goals scored gone up since that time? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have made arguments like that before and my one friend always pulls out these stats that say there are more goals scored now than there were back then. Anyone have any type of insight into this?
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php

Depends what time period you're talking about. The 70's were higher scoring than anything since the early 90's.

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03-26-2013, 09:11 AM
  #790
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I disagree with this. He doesn't really try that hard. Even when he has last switch, he has routinely put Briere's line against another good line, often regardless of where the faceoff takes place. A great example is the Boston series, for instance. It's one of the major criticisms against Laviolette. Lavy rolls with whatever line he feels like rolling with it seems, and it has often led to Briere and his line being matched against opponents they shouldn't be out against.
Please give that a read...it's a couple weeks old but it's the telling stats for Danny.

http://thehockeyguys.net/danny-brier...ward-position/

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03-26-2013, 10:31 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haven't the amount of goals scored gone up since that time? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have made arguments like that before and my one friend always pulls out these stats that say there are more goals scored now than there were back then. Anyone have any type of insight into this?
There's other factors that weigh into things like this though. The overall skill level and talent level of these players is vastly beyond anything that occurred in the past. People like to revere in the glory of players from those eras, but the fact is players are much stronger, faster, technical, skilled and lethal than they were back then. It's just not even close. If you put Evgeni Malkin as he is now in the league in say 1974.... He'd score 300 goals.

If the amount of goals went up, it's because defenders were allowed to grab you, slash you and interfere with you, and shots were a fraction of the power with players who weren't as strong using wooden sticks, and seldom left the ice so goalies didn't really have to have the technique they have now. It was just "hey I'll stop this puck now". Players were great in perspective with the time period they played in, but the players today are better and it's really not even debatable.


Last edited by orange is better: 03-26-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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03-26-2013, 11:03 AM
  #792
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He'd score 300 goals.
What? No.

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03-26-2013, 01:06 PM
  #793
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It's a lot easier to play defense when you can grab guys by the neck as slash their ankles.
Do not go there if you are saying Bobby Clarke was not a 200' player!!!!!!!! I am trying to understand your point here. "Grab guys by the neck as slash their ankles"?

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03-26-2013, 01:08 PM
  #794
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That Bobby Clarke sure was a multitasker.
He sure was

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03-26-2013, 01:33 PM
  #795
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Trust me, Clarke made time for tactics like that. And I was a huge fan of his when he was leading the Flyers to their second Cup (the first Cup made me a fan).
I must be older than you because for me Clarke's coming out party was the 1972 Summit Series. For me Canada does not win the series vs the U.S.S.R. without Clarke. Yes he was a youngster amid all the super stars of that time. But his determination and never say die attitude really came to the forefront for all the world to see. A lot of the russians have said that he was Canada's best player in that series. When it comes to Bobby Clarke my blood gets pumping. Cause for me he was the greatist Flyer of ALL time and the man who is the mold when you think of FLYER HOCKEY

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03-26-2013, 02:16 PM
  #796
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What? No.
Obviously it's an exaggeration. He wouldn't be able to play enough in a game to get to that mark...

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03-26-2013, 02:18 PM
  #797
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Do not go there if you are saying Bobby Clarke was not a 200' player!!!!!!!! I am trying to understand your point here. "Grab guys by the neck as slash their ankles"?
Hey I love Clarkie as much as the next guy, but you're delusional if you think any player as they were from that era could even crack an nhl lineup today. That's my point. The game has evolved beyond what it was at that time an astonishing amount in terms of the conditioning and overall skill level of the players.

This is a completely different game.

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03-26-2013, 02:19 PM
  #798
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did the Flyers look like they missed #48 vs PITT ?
no.

feel bad he got hurt, happy he's not playing, though

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03-26-2013, 02:34 PM
  #799
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did the Flyers look like they missed #48 vs PITT ?
no.

feel bad he got hurt, happy he's not playing, though
Yeah seriously. At this point, losing Danny to Injury is probably a lateral move at best haha.

As for the future of his place on the team; don't get me wrong, I think Danny is great guy and he's done a good amount for this club and was an integral part in getting us back on track after disaster season.. But I think it's time to move on from the Briere era in our history. I wish no ill will on him. I just feel like they need they need to get rid of him and his contract.

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03-26-2013, 03:10 PM
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There's other factors that weigh into things like this though. The overall skill level and talent level of these players is vastly beyond anything that occurred in the past. People like to revere in the glory of players from those eras, but the fact is players are much stronger, faster, technical, skilled and lethal than they were back then. It's just not even close. If you put Evgeni Malkin as he is now in the league in say 1974.... He'd score 300 goals.

If the amount of goals went up, it's because defenders were allowed to grab you, slash you and interfere with you, and shots were a fraction of the power with players who weren't as strong using wooden sticks, and seldom left the ice so goalies didn't really have to have the technique they have now. It was just "hey I'll stop this puck now". Players were great in perspective with the time period they played in, but the players today are better and it's really not even debatable.
300? I don't know about all that. Remember back in the day players actually had to throw down when they went around slashing. Malkin wouldn't get away with some of the stuff he or a lot of other players like to pull. Schultz would make his face a punching bag.

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