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M. Richards, J. Carter trade in retrospect

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Old
03-26-2013, 11:34 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by CASUAL KEV View Post
You say that like Mike Richards is a special player. He was very good for Philly in the start but started declining during their cup run. After that they saw the writing on the wall and made a trade. He's a "name player". People recognize his name because he's played on team Canada at all levels but he's mostly a defensive checking center at this point. Not even a 2 way player.
He was a PPG player for two years in Philly, and still topped 60pts. I hated the guy, but his game was undeniable, and he was a hell of a leader on the ice. That wasnt about name recognition, that was about quality.

His decline in his first year with the Kings might have been a fluke. I'm gonna reserve my judgement until I see what he can do in a full season in LA next year before I can definitively say he has declined.

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Old
03-26-2013, 11:37 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
lol classless? you realize that this is a BUSINESS right? There are no promises. Management has to do what is best for the team/company. That was getting rid of the flakes that were Richards and Carter.
Lol, they are still be considered flakes? One of them scored a cup winning goal last post season. Both had good numbers on a team that pulled upset after upset in the post season. I dont really see how that label is apt anymore.

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03-26-2013, 11:39 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Extra Texture View Post
He was a PPG player for two years in Philly, and still topped 60pts. I hated the guy, but his game was undeniable, and he was a hell of a leader on the ice. That wasnt about name recognition, that was about quality.

His decline in his first year with the Kings might have been a fluke. I'm gonna reserve my judgement until I see what he can do in a full season in LA next year before I can definitively say he has declined.
People also need to account for league context. Right now there are 14% more points to go around in the East. More Western teams are built defense first, and there just isn't as much scoring.

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03-26-2013, 11:40 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
lol classless? you realize that this is a BUSINESS right? There are no promises. Management has to do what is best for the team/company. That was getting rid of the flakes that were Richards and Carter.
Yes, classless. You dont think the Flyers knew about Richards' and Carter's extra curricular activities BEFORE they signed those contracts? Fact is, both these guys took huge hometown discounts to stay in Philly and Homer moved them right before their NMC kicked in. Add to the fact that Holmgren assured Carter the rumors weren't true and he wasn't going anywhere. Then, he trades him to the freaking Blue Jackets (sorry CBJ fans). I understand it's a business, but that doesn't make his actions any better.

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03-26-2013, 11:44 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Yes, classless. You dont think the Flyers knew about Richards' and Carter's extra curricular activities BEFORE they signed those contracts? Fact is, both these guys took huge hometown discounts to stay in Philly and Homer moved them right before their NMC kicked in. Add to the fact that Holmgren assured Carter the rumors weren't true and he wasn't going anywhere. Then, he trades him to the freaking Blue Jackets (sorry CBJ fans). I understand it's a business, but that doesn't make his actions any better.
Huge hometown discounts, still being paid millions of dollars a year. Like it or not, when you get paid obscene amounts of money, it's somewhat understood that you're subject to drastic change such as this. It's all part of the compensation.

I think trading them before their clauses kicked in was rough, but come on. It's not like they were traded to Baghdad or Mars. Columbus and LA are two very nice cities.

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03-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Yes, classless. You dont think the Flyers knew about Richards' and Carter's extra curricular activities BEFORE they signed those contracts? Fact is, both these guys took huge hometown discounts to stay in Philly and Homer moved them right before their NMC kicked in. Add to the fact that Holmgren assured Carter the rumors weren't true and he wasn't going anywhere. Then, he trades him to the freaking Blue Jackets (sorry CBJ fans). I understand it's a business, but that doesn't make his actions any better.
Maybe not? Who is to say they did or did not? Are you close to the beat? I doubt it. I lived in Old city near these guys and had female friends who would hang out with them and who confirmed their off ice issues.

bottom line is, if you think something is a problem, are you just supposed to sit on it because you "owe" them something? lol, you obviously would run a business in to the ground. you find a problem and you get rid of it before it gets worse. simple as that.

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03-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Extra Texture View Post
Lol, they are still be considered flakes? One of them scored a cup winning goal last post season. Both had good numbers on a team that pulled upset after upset in the post season. I dont really see how that label is apt anymore.
flakes? yes.

im not referring to their on ice play.

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03-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Huge hometown discounts, still being paid millions of dollars a year. Like it or not, when you get paid obscene amounts of money, it's somewhat understood that you're subject to drastic change such as this. It's all part of the compensation.

I think trading them before their clauses kicked in was rough, but come on. It's not like they were traded to Baghdad or Mars. Columbus and LA are two very nice cities.
Look I agree with you because chances are, I won't see anywhere close to >50 million in my life, but they still did leave LOTS of money on the table and were blatantly lied to. If it were understood, there wouldn't be NTC and NMC for security purposes. All is well that ends well I suppose....

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03-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
Maybe not? Who is to say they did or did not? Are you close to the beat? I doubt it. I lived in Old city near these guys and had female friends who would hang out with them and who confirmed their off ice issues.

bottom line is, if you think something is a problem, are you just supposed to sit on it because you "owe" them something? lol, you obviously would run a business in to the ground. you find a problem and you get rid of it before it gets worse. simple as that.
Then why sign them to those mega deals in the first place? I'm sorry, but it's shady business

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03-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Look I agree with you because chances are, I won't see anywhere close to >50 million in my life, but they still did leave LOTS of money on the table and were blatantly lied to. If it were understood, there wouldn't be NTC and NMC for security purposes. All is well that ends well I suppose....
how were they lied to? they signed contracts that said they would not be moved after a certain date.. and they werent

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03-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #86
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There are so many "what if's" to look back. For value, Philly would certainly do those trades again. As would LA. And now Colmbus has looked better too. So win-win-win.

People need to remember that Philly would look a lot different with Pronger there last year and this year.

Carter and Richards make 10.5 mill...the same as Couts, Jake, Simmonds and Schenn. So Philly would have to find 2 more players or shed more salary. So maybe that means Hartnell was traded, or Read never signed...who knows. Too many if's.

I think we can safely say that TODAY...all 3 teams are happy with the trades.

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03-26-2013, 11:50 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Then why sign them to those mega deals in the first place? I'm sorry, but it's shady business
maybe when they signed those deals, the organization had faith in them. thats what i would assume. and then after the cup loss, and the early exit then ext year, they saw change in them and lost faith. simple as that. how is that hard to understand? it doesn't take long for someone to turn sour.

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03-26-2013, 11:51 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
maybe when they signed those deals, the organization had faith in them. thats what i would assume. and then after the cup loss, and the early exit then ext year, they saw change in them and lost faith. simple as that. how is that hard to understand? it doesn't take long for someone to turn sour.
So in one year it goes from- "Jeff and Mike are integral parts of this organization" to "See ya *******!"

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03-26-2013, 11:52 AM
  #89
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Hi all,

First I would like to mention this is not a troll thread or to cause any bashing. I would simply like to get some feedback from HF about the blockbuster trades that the Flyers made two years ago now that we know that Pronger will most likely call it a career.

In my opinion, i believe that the Flyers got an excellent return from both Richards and Carter, therefore it seems like a trade hey would make again regardless of Pronger's health. However, I remember reading at the the time (Unfortunately don't have any links) that one of the underlying cause for their departure was that the locker room was divided between Richards and Pronger, with management ultimately deciding to go with Pronger. Also I think that Giroux was breaking out and with Briere wanting to play center again, there was a surplus at the C position.

Now hypothetically, if Pronger was the one traded, and that Richards and Carter stayed with the Flyers, would that team be in a better position than now?

To summarize, would a core consisting of Richards and Giroux at C, and Briere with Carter on the wings be in better shape than the current Giroux ,Briere at C, with Simmonds, Voracek,Couturier and Schenn at Foward. Assume that both Carter and Ricahrds haven;t already one a cup.

Again, not looking to stir up any trouble or beat a dead horse.

Thanks
i thought the room was split cause of carter and hartnell (i heard rumors but i dont know if there true)

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03-26-2013, 11:53 AM
  #90
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^ Not true.

The lingering hate for these two guys is ridiculous. This thread was doomed from the get-go.

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03-26-2013, 11:54 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Yes, classless. You dont think the Flyers knew about Richards' and Carter's extra curricular activities BEFORE they signed those contracts? Fact is, both these guys took huge hometown discounts to stay in Philly and Homer moved them right before their NMC kicked in. Add to the fact that Holmgren assured Carter the rumors weren't true and he wasn't going anywhere. Then, he trades him to the freaking Blue Jackets (sorry CBJ fans). I understand it's a business, but that doesn't make his actions any better.
You act like Richards and Carter were the epitome of class. If the rumors about the locker room problems and excess partying were true, then the Flyers had every right to ship them out while they still could.

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03-26-2013, 11:58 AM
  #92
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I think the Flyers got excellent return for Carter.

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03-26-2013, 11:58 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
So in one year it goes from- "Jeff and Mike are integral parts of this organization" to "See ya *******!"
Look, this happens in every single team and every single business, all over the world. No spokesperson is going to come out and say "We arent really sure how we feel about Mike richards, hes ok, might lack discipline, not really sure how we feel about his future". lol. get real. they are going to sugar coat EVERYTHING

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03-26-2013, 11:59 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Then why sign them to those mega deals in the first place? I'm sorry, but it's shady business
There are always 2 sides to the story though. Yes, it looks shady. BUT, you also have to ask yourself...What REALLY happened to make 2 untouchables suddenly traded within 30 minutes of each other. There had to be something, if not, then why do it?

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03-26-2013, 12:01 PM
  #95
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I like the return a lot, Simmer, Voracek, Schenn and Coots are great. That said, I miss Richards, and even Carter, a lot. They were two of my favorite players and the 2010 cup run was one of the most magical runs I've ever seen.



Until it was cut short by

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:02 PM
  #96
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The Carter trade I still think is an excellent one for the Flyers.

Not sure about the Richards one, he's a playoff hero, a real glue to a team. Hard player to replace.

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03-26-2013, 12:05 PM
  #97
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I feel like the Flyers have won both trades, landing Voracek (leading scorer), Simmonds (3rd in points), Brayden Schenn who's certainly coming around (4th in points), an 8th round pick (Couturier), a 2nd round pick (traded for Grossmann), and a 3rd round pick (Nick Cousins)
Wait, what?! WHAT?!

Couturier is an 8th round pick?!

FML....

Quick google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Couturier

LOL. You meant 8th overall. Nearly gave me a heart attack thinking my team took 7 other nobodies and still missed Couturier in the 8th freakin' round.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:09 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
So in one year it goes from- "Jeff and Mike are integral parts of this organization" to "See ya *******!"
Speculation and baseless assumptions are running amok in this thread. Here are some facts:

Ed Snider has publicly stated that after watching Tim Thomas carry the Bruins to a Cup he decided the team was going to get a #1 goalie. That's a fact.

Bryzgalov was pretty much the only big name goalie on the market that year, and Snider went after him. Again, Snider has publicly stated that he was the mover and shaker in getting Bryzgalov.

The Flyers were going to have to clear cap space to fit Bryzgalov's salary. Also, just plain fact. So someone with a good sized cap hit was going to have to go, if not two someone's.

Carter, being young and talented, and the team having had trouble finding the right spot/role for him, was an obvious candidate. That's not kicking the guy out the door, it's the GM doing his job. Carter clearly didn't want to go to Columbus, but in the end it might have been the best thing to happen to him. It might have given him a bit of a wake up call.

And while it's always tough to trade the team captain, Holmgren got an offer from LA that was too good to refuse. And Richards goes to a Cup contender. So who is supposed to be unhappy about all of this?

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:24 PM
  #99
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The problem I see is that a lot of Flyers fans are viewing the trade of Richards and trying to equate that to a loss of points and it being replaced by the players they got for him. Richards brings FAR more than points to the table and the Flyers are missing that while they rely on young players (Schenn and Couturier) who are nowhere near ready (if ever) to shoulder the type of play and leadership Richards brings. I understand the Carter trade, they wanted to bring-in a proven goalie, Carter had been injured an inconsistent in the playoffs, and he would bring back a nice return, but I'm of the opinion that you don't trade a player like Richards like that.

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03-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #100
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If im the flyers Id trade Pronger over my forward depth.

that just me though.

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