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2013 NHL Draft Thread II (6/30, 3PM EDT)

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:40 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Umm...can you say Lecavalier? Tampa keeps half of the salary and cap hit. Takes a big chunk of their cap problems off their hands, gives us a good player and a great pick. I know it'd never happen, and the value might not be quite equal (vinny is still a pretty impressive player at times) but its an interesting thought. (Plus, we can reunite the Vinnys )
The funny thing is Tampa is already paying Vinny Prospal buyout money for another few years, so if we take a reduced salary Lecavalier, we'll have two Vinny's they're still paying.

I don't think this deal would be bad for the Jackets:

3rd overall + Lecavalier (1/3 salary retained, which puts his salary at about Dubinsky range)

for

8th overall + John Moore + Fedor Tyutin.

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03-25-2013, 06:36 AM
  #302
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While I think Lecavalier is too old for a rebuilding team I like the 8 for the 3 part but to give up Toots & Moore kills it for me. Give em one and Savard and I'm in.

and on a more relevant point, the Kings and Rangers both play a majority of their remaining games on the road, where neither has exactly distinguished themselves. 3 in the top 14? Could happen.


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03-25-2013, 08:45 AM
  #303
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want no part of VinnyLacav....he's been hurt A LOT the last few years and that contract is just bad...i would be on board with a move that gets us a forth 1st and while don't really want to deal Murray, I could live with it if it gets us a legit 1C in the deal...

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03-25-2013, 09:15 AM
  #304
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Tampa doesn't need Tyutin anyway imo. They would be looking for RH top 4 D. Preferably physical, shutdown D.

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03-25-2013, 01:10 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Folks have been mentioning the Lightning as possible trade partners (actually they have been circling like vultures over that franchise), but I think the Lightning might be another team who would want to move in the draft if they are in the 2-6 range. They already have a great offence, and their forward prospect core looks good. It's the rest of the team that needs help.

I wonder if Yzerman would do:

3rd overall for Ryan Murray and a second rounder.

or

3rd overall for 9th overall + John Moore + Fedor Tyutin

That puts us back in Drouin/Mackinnon range, and both franchises rebalance themselves.
NO and NO WAY.

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03-25-2013, 01:12 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Umm...can you say Lecavalier? Tampa keeps half of the salary and cap hit. Takes a big chunk of their cap problems off their hands, gives us a good player and a great pick. I know it'd never happen, and the value might not be quite equal (vinny is still a pretty impressive player at times) but its an interesting thought. (Plus, we can reunite the Vinnys )
Why would we want him? We are finally building this team the right way. Going out and getting a high priced, older player isn't smart IMO.

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03-25-2013, 01:22 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Tampa doesn't need Tyutin anyway imo. They would be looking for RH top 4 D. Preferably physical, shutdown D.
How close is Prout to filling that role?

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03-25-2013, 09:04 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Palinka View Post
I don't agree with your assessment of Nichushkin's hockey sense. I think it's extremely high, and I don't believe for a second that anything on the ice will prevent him from becoming an NHL star in the future.

The star of this year's draft in hockey sense will be Jonathan Drouin. He's got the type of off-the-charts IQ on the ice that anyone who's spent more than a day in hockey will fantasize about. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins had the best sense since Crosby, and Drouin makes Nugent-Hopkins look like the remedial class.

Nichushkin's biggest issue will be whether the KHL really wants to make a run at keeping him over here. They haven't had a star prospect like this in a while, someone who can excel in several facets of the game.
Agreed, on all points except Drouin's hockey sense ... I think you're giving him (slightly) too much credit. After all, he's no Alex Petrovic

Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
Folks have been mentioning the Lightning as possible trade partners (actually they have been circling like vultures over that franchise), but I think the Lightning might be another team who would want to move in the draft if they are in the 2-6 range. They already have a great offence, and their forward prospect core looks good. It's the rest of the team that needs help.

I wonder if Yzerman would do:

3rd overall for Ryan Murray and a second rounder.

or

3rd overall for 9th overall + John Moore + Fedor Tyutin

That puts us back in Drouin/Mackinnon range, and both franchises rebalance themselves.
Absolutely not, in both cases.

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Originally Posted by major major View Post
I love the guy but I bet he'd go 5th or 6th in this draft. And he wouldn't necessarily have much impact, this year or next. I can't imagine not swapping him for a top four pick in this draft if we were offered it.
Disagree here, even with the injury, Ryan Murray is right there with the likes of Drouin and Barkov, and the only reason he would fall to 5th or 6th would be teams choosing the forwards instead of seeking a defenseman. To add to Palinka's point, Ryan Murray's hockey IQ is extremely high ... this guy isn't just another piece, this guy is a long term centerpiece, and regardless of what people say or think, he is at the forefront of our future defense corps. No way do I give this guy up - and throw in another piece - for anything short of an established, star caliber player.

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03-25-2013, 09:44 PM
  #309
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Disagree here, even with the injury, Ryan Murray is right there with the likes of Drouin and Barkov, and the only reason he would fall to 5th or 6th would be teams choosing the forwards instead of seeking a defenseman. To add to Palinka's point, Ryan Murray's hockey IQ is extremely high ... this guy isn't just another piece, this guy is a long term centerpiece, and regardless of what people say or think, he is at the forefront of our future defense corps. No way do I give this guy up - and throw in another piece - for anything short of an established, star caliber player.
I'm surprised by this, I thought the conventional wisdom was that the top four of this year's draft all could have pushed ahead of even Yakupov. Was that just hype? Or did the top 4 sink down, or Murray's stock rise that much from his early season play?

I'm also very high on Ryan Murray BTW. I love the way the guy plays. I just don't love him more than Mackinnon, and I can't see us becoming a great team without an elite center, instead I imagine us as the next Phoenix Coyotes.

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03-25-2013, 10:12 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
I'm surprised by this, I thought the conventional wisdom was that the top four of this year's draft all could have pushed ahead of even Yakupov. Was that just hype? Or did the top 4 sink down, or Murray's stock rise that much from his early season play?

I'm also very high on Ryan Murray BTW. I love the way the guy plays. I just don't love him more than Mackinnon, and I can't see us becoming a great team without an elite center, instead I imagine us as the next Phoenix Coyotes.
I'd be ok with being the next Coyotes for awhile. I'll worry about great once they've been good.

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03-25-2013, 10:22 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
I'm surprised by this, I thought the conventional wisdom was that the top four of this year's draft all could have pushed ahead of even Yakupov. Was that just hype? Or did the top 4 sink down, or Murray's stock rise that much from his early season play?

I'm also very high on Ryan Murray BTW. I love the way the guy plays. I just don't love him more than Mackinnon, and I can't see us becoming a great team without an elite center, instead I imagine us as the next Phoenix Coyotes.
Yakupov would be in the same consideration for me - on the same tier as Drouin and Barkov.

And Murray's stock doesn't have to rise at all. He did go second overall at last year's draft; his stock is through the roof, until he proves otherwise. Trust me, when Ryan Murray breaks onto the scene in the NHL, he won't be a shadow piece; he will be an immediate difference maker.

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I'd be ok with being the next Coyotes for awhile. I'll worry about great once they've been good.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I get tired of hearing comparisons to other teams. When we face the same struggles as a team like Phoenix, or one of the other constant comparables, Nashville, then we can start to complain about our "struggles". For now, I'd rather just focus on respectability.

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03-26-2013, 01:38 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Yakupov would be in the same consideration for me - on the same tier as Drouin and Barkov.

And Murray's stock doesn't have to rise at all. He did go second overall at last year's draft; his stock is through the roof, until he proves otherwise. Trust me, when Ryan Murray breaks onto the scene in the NHL, he won't be a shadow piece; he will be an immediate difference maker.
Don't Disagree much about Murray (he's got the stuff to be a top pairing guy, but I think he's just behind Barkov/Drouin/Mackinnon) Yakupov is another story. Didn't like him that much at the draft and I don't think he's got the stuff be in the top 5 this year. He doesn't think the game well, to me he is Mackinnon without the hockey smarts (speed and a heck of a nose for the goal). He doesn't use his teammates well and watching him play D is like watching a horror movie. He could put up monster numbers, but only if he plays a cherry picking style ala early career OV (and that never translated into playoff success)

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03-26-2013, 02:19 AM
  #313
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For now, I'd rather just focus on respectability.
Aha! Therein lies our disagreement.

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03-26-2013, 08:52 AM
  #314
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Aha! Therein lies our disagreement.
Oh goodie. A "people are satisified with mediocrity" post. This should go well, because, you know, it's totally accurate and not at all a misrepresentation/exaggeration.

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03-26-2013, 09:17 AM
  #315
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Your right..

why settle for playoffs year in, year out - ice a Cup winner

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03-26-2013, 09:18 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Oh goodie. A "people are satisified with mediocrity" post. This should go well, because, you know, it's totally accurate and not at all a misrepresentation/exaggeration.
your sarcasm is not welcomed sir... (is the sarcasm smiley really needed here?)

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03-26-2013, 09:32 AM
  #317
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why settle for playoffs year in, year out - ice a Cup winner
I've yet to see a team win a Cup without being in the playoffs. Is there a back door into the finals about which I'm unaware?

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03-26-2013, 10:17 AM
  #318
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Oh goodie. A "people are satisified with mediocrity" post. This should go well, because, you know, it's totally accurate and not at all a misrepresentation/exaggeration.
Seems that people have an issue understanding the difference between long term goals and short term expectations.

The goal is the Stanley Cup. Not just win it once, but a contender year in and year out. Expecting this team to be that over the next three to five years is probably fairly unrealistic unless we have some serious development in a host of unexpected areas. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it.

The reality is, that as a small market, it is going to be more of a challenge to reach that goal. We just don't have the revenue stream. Impossible? No. But certainly more difficult.

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03-26-2013, 12:55 PM
  #319
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All this sarcasm is confusing. I think people might be rehashing arguments they've had before, and are missing what we're talking about here.

I don't think we have a case of folks settling for mediocrity vs. folks trying to win the cup. We all want to win the cup and we all anticipate getting there being a slow building process. Correct? The disagreement is over when/where certain pieces are added.

I think the draft, and particularly this draft, is a great time to add an elite center who you can build around. I think we're set up to have a good defence for years to come, maybe great with Ryan Murray. But where does our offence come from?

Where else do we get an elite center?

We really do look to be trending into the Coyotes. They have been an okay team that has built around solid defence and added a young defenceman who is already playing elite hockey in Oliver Ekman-Larsson. But that doesn't make you a contender, in fact it doesn't guarantee you a playoff spot. Case in point, Phoenix is behind us in the standings.

This is my understanding of the context of the argument. But of course you can agree with my context and still think I'm crazy to want to trade Murray for Mackinnon.

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03-26-2013, 01:55 PM
  #320
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The problem I have is trading Murray for MacKinnon. We have enough other pieces to trade for him without trading Murray (obviously, I don't know what another team would want from us if they were trading the chance to draft MacKinnon to us).

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03-26-2013, 02:34 PM
  #321
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The problem I have is trading Murray for MacKinnon. We have enough other pieces to trade for him without trading Murray (obviously, I don't know what another team would want from us if they were trading the chance to draft MacKinnon to us).
I don't think you get Mackinnon without giving up either Murray or perhaps our entire 2013 draft ++, or maybe some combination of a first rounder plus part of our current d-core.

I'm not Yzerman, so I obviously don't know, but we can guess that the Flyers, Lightning, and Avalanche (currently the 2-4 seeded teams) would be more interested in serious upgrades to their D at this point than taking yet another forward piece. So the potential for a deal is there. What kind of deal do people want to see?

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03-26-2013, 03:14 PM
  #322
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I don't think you get Mackinnon without giving up either Murray or perhaps our entire 2013 draft ++, or maybe some combination of a first rounder plus part of our current d-core.

I'm not Yzerman, so I obviously don't know, but we can guess that the Flyers, Lightning, and Avalanche (currently the 2-4 seeded teams) would be more interested in serious upgrades to their D at this point than taking yet another forward piece. So the potential for a deal is there. What kind of deal do people want to see?
Obviously, at least one of our defensemen would have to be involved. I just wouldn't trade Murray. I wouldn't make the trade, because I wouldn't want to trade what other teams would want. I would try to get what we need through the draft picks we have this year. I would maybe make a trade next year if we still don't have what we need.

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03-26-2013, 03:48 PM
  #323
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I don't think you get Mackinnon without giving up either Murray or perhaps our entire 2013 draft ++, or maybe some combination of a first rounder plus part of our current d-core.

I'm not Yzerman, so I obviously don't know, but we can guess that the Flyers, Lightning, and Avalanche (currently the 2-4 seeded teams) would be more interested in serious upgrades to their D at this point than taking yet another forward piece. So the potential for a deal is there. What kind of deal do people want to see?
IMO if Avs miss on Jones, they'd still happily take Drouin, Nate or Barkov. Same with Tampa, BPA. Tampa already has one promising D coming of shoulder surgery, Koekkoek. Yzerman surely isn't the one to rush this kind of things.

Statsny may walk or get traded. Only Avs management knows what they'll do with ROR.

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03-26-2013, 08:54 PM
  #324
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We have three first round picks. I truly feel that not landing Nathan MacKinnon, Seth Jones, Jonathan Drouin, or Aleksander Barkov is not the end of the world. I like the idea of standing pat and seeing what falls to us - there is always the chance that a Dougie Hamilton, Sean Couturier, or Cam Fowler drops all the way to your pick anyhow.

I don't think there's any way we could seriously consider Ryan Murray without seeing him in our lineup first. Seriously, this guy is unbelievably talented - one of the best players I have ever seen in the WHL. I don't say that because he's dominant offensively or puts up huge numbers; I say that because his intelligence is through the roof, and he actually looks like a #1 defenseman.

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03-26-2013, 09:50 PM
  #325
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While killing some time waiting for the game to start I browsed through the first two or three rounds of the draft since 2005. While I would still love a shot at one of the top 4 there have been a lot of pretty darn good players selected later in the first say 15 and after through the 2nd. also a bunch of who dey's? Guess it will come down to who we pick-hopefully the scouting and selection process will be on its A game. To think this year's Claude Giroux, Jordan Eberle, Jamie Benn & Wayne Simmonds could all be lurking out there just waiting to be selected by the Jackets.

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