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David Desharnais - Black or White Edition

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:20 PM
  #151
Kimota
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Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Can't believe we have to put up with 4 more years of his ****** play. Move him to the wing or get him the **** off the team...
meh he didn't play too bad. DD was battling like Gallagher, it's Max Pac that's floating outthere.

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03-26-2013, 09:20 PM
  #152
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With Sutter playing vs DD, I see what you mean by you can't really just use those advance stats, because while Crosby and Malkin are the better offensive players, Sutter actually might be the better defensive player.
This.

According to this board and the corsiRel QoC, a "strong opposition" means "the best offensive line from the other team". In reality, the "strongest opposition" is usually the best defensive line from the other team, which is rarely the same line. So far, I still never heard of any micro stats that would mesure which player is facing the best defensive lines.

The corsiRel QoC has some nice qualities, but it doesn't mesure the strenght of the opposition that a player is facing. All it says is if a "x player" is facing more offensively oriented or defensively oriented players. And it should surprise no one that DD is facing mostly defensively oriented players. That shouldn't be qualified as "weak opposition", no matter how often it's been repeated by the DD detractors on this board.

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03-26-2013, 09:23 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Not yet. Chuckie not ready for center, play Eller at center with the two Gallys, at least Brendan's effort will not be wasted. Have Armstrong play with Patches and DD, at least that line wont get scored on as often.

BTW, guess who was on the iced when Crosby scored.... DD of course.
OMG, DD was on the ice while the best player in the world scored a goal!! Trade him!!

This has to be the stupidiest argument I've seen here. Gallagher, Pacioretty, Tinordi, Bouillon and Price were on the ice too. Why don't you blame them?

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03-26-2013, 09:28 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Not yet. Chuckie not ready for center, play Eller at center with the two Gallys, at least Brendan's effort will not be wasted. Have Armstrong play with Patches and DD, at least that line wont get scored on as often.

BTW, guess who was on the iced when Crosby scored.... DD of course.
I understand why Alex is getting sheltered minutes but imo he needs to be given some PP time. I think he could be the finisher we've been lacking other than Subban and obviously he can't be any worse than DD on the unit.

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03-26-2013, 09:43 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well, that's why I'm saying, if we trade Plekanec to make room for Gally at center, it means one of Galchenyuk or Desharnais will not be in an exploitation role. You can't have two exploitation scoring lines. It's very likely Galchenyuk will have no problem filling a two way role someday, but next year, at 20? If we must move him off the wing ASAP, it can only come at the expense of Desharnais IMO. Even if they think Eller is good enough to replace Plekanec at this point (even as an Eller fan, I'm not so sure), Galchenyuk would be replacing Eller, and I would hate to see the reaction here if Galchenyuk was used as a defense-first third liner. Which is why I want to see how DD plays on the wings.
Plekanec won't be traded to make room for anyone unless he's 34+. Until then, it's more likely our least skilled center makes way.

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03-26-2013, 09:47 PM
  #156
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Oh man, the next 4 years on these forums are going to be very long with people bashing Desharnais at every chance they get.

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03-26-2013, 09:50 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Oh man, the next 4 years on these forums are going to be very long with people bashing Desharnais at every chance they get.
They don't really wait for a chance to blame him. They can very well blame him for Tinordi's mistake, for example.

I remember there was this "blame Subban" running gag a few years ago. It should be changed to "Blame DD"!

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03-26-2013, 10:03 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
They don't really wait for a chance to blame him. They can very well blame him for Tinordi's mistake, for example.

I remember there was this "blame Subban" running gag a few years ago. It should be changed to "Blame DD"!
Yep.. That was a rookie mistake by Tinordi. Unfortunate and wont blame the loss on Tinordi but he was badly out of position with Crosby on the ice.

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03-26-2013, 10:05 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
This.

According to this board and the corsiRel QoC, a "strong opposition" means "the best offensive line from the other team". In reality, the "strongest opposition" is usually the best defensive line from the other team, which is rarely the same line. So far, I still never heard of any micro stats that would mesure which player is facing the best defensive lines.

The corsiRel QoC has some nice qualities, but it doesn't mesure the strenght of the opposition that a player is facing. All it says is if a "x player" is facing more offensively oriented or defensively oriented players. And it should surprise no one that DD is facing mostly defensively oriented players. That shouldn't be qualified as "weak opposition", no matter how often it's been repeated by the DD detractors on this board.
Then it should be a surprise to everybody that DD is -2, worst on a team that is +20 overall. He's be on the ice for 24 goals out of 45 Even Strenght Goals.....leaving only 21 goals for all the 3 other line.

Is that a sign of good puck possession?
Is he helping the team?
Is that the results you expect from the one who got major Ozone Start and facing defensive players?

And get him out of the powerplay NOW
1 points in his last 25 games (That's about 60 to 65 minutes of PP ice time)
4 points this year in 32 games.

Seriously Scott Gomez got 4 points in powerplay in 25 games with less PP ice time

It's embarassing for a so-called playmaker with border line elite vision....Powerplay are supposed to be the bread and butter of these type of player.

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03-26-2013, 10:16 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Oh man, the next 4 years on these forums are going to be very long with people bashing Desharnais at every chance they get.
Well, DD (and MaxPac) are struggling for 6-7 straight games now. They got softer opposition and always playing on the PP. No excuse to "perform" like they are now. They are not just lacking production but they are just bad offensively and defensively.

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03-26-2013, 10:16 PM
  #161
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DD isn't strong on the puck during the PP. It seems like he always gets it and can't hold onto it long enough for us to set up the umbrella. once the cycle is established he's fine, but he's too weak to carry the puck along the wall IMO.

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03-26-2013, 10:19 PM
  #162
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For the defensive stats of Desharnais. I think you have to look at who he played with also.

That being said he is our worst center in the defensive zone. I'd like to see him on the wing.

Let's be honest he is on a rough patch right now. Let's jope his line wakes up soon.

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:08 AM
  #163
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Tinordi and bouillon should not be on the ice with the DD line, certainly not against Crosby.

Together they have weak defense.

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03-27-2013, 12:11 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
DD isn't strong on the puck during the PP. It seems like he always gets it and can't hold onto it long enough for us to set up the umbrella. once the cycle is established he's fine, but he's too weak to carry the puck along the wall IMO.
I like Desharnais and I agree with Bergevin with the contract, but right now I don't know why Therrien is still playing him that much on the PP while he isn't producing.

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03-27-2013, 04:42 AM
  #165
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Saw DD line vs Crosby a lot this game and line held their own. Heard Pittsburgh commentators even say "good defensive play by desharnais". I saw Crosby try to check desharnais but to no avail for an in close shot.

Crosbys goal was far from a defensive lapse. He beat tinordi and had a chance to snipe. 99% of those shots don't go in.

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03-27-2013, 04:46 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
I like Desharnais and I agree with Bergevin with the contract, but right now I don't know why Therrien is still playing him that much on the PP while he isn't producing.
That's pretty much it. Doesn't hurt to mix it up because his power play impact has been minimal.

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03-27-2013, 05:24 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yep.. That was a rookie mistake by Tinordi. Unfortunate and wont blame the loss on Tinordi but he was badly out of position with Crosby on the ice.
Bad line change Tinordi was left alone...

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Old
03-27-2013, 06:20 AM
  #168
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David Desharnais is on pace for a 46 point season, which is substantially worse than last year (60 points in 81 games) and only a little better than the 42 point pace he had two years ago, in his rookie season, playing with Darche, Pouliot, etc. He is also -2 in spite of predominantly starting in the offensive zone against defensive specialists who are not good at scoring.

He is having a bad year. Note that Pacioretty has 25 points in 28 games (+3) and Gallagher has 18 points in 28 games (+8) so it's not them.

Sometimes players have bad years. Think Plekanec in 2009. We shouldn't overevaluate -- Desharnais can bounce back by training hard in the summer and playing on Galchenyuk's wing in 2013-2014. In the meantime, Therrien should start limiting his role through the end of this season.

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03-27-2013, 07:14 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
David Desharnais is on pace for a 46 point season, which is substantially worse than last year (60 points in 81 games) and only a little better than the 42 point pace he had two years ago, in his rookie season, playing with Darche, Pouliot, etc. He is also -2 in spite of predominantly starting in the offensive zone against defensive specialists who are not good at scoring.

He is having a bad year. Note that Pacioretty has 25 points in 28 games (+3) and Gallagher has 18 points in 28 games (+8) so it's not them.

Sometimes players have bad years. Think Plekanec in 2009. We shouldn't overevaluate -- Desharnais can bounce back by training hard in the summer and playing on Galchenyuk's wing in 2013-2014. In the meantime, Therrien should start limiting his role through the end of this season.
His ES numbers are fine but yeah PP should be limited.

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03-27-2013, 07:25 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
His ES numbers are fine but yeah PP should be limited.
He has the worst +/- on the team: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/mo....stat_type.104

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03-27-2013, 07:28 AM
  #171
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I understand why Alex is getting sheltered minutes but imo he needs to be given some PP time. I think he could be the finisher we've been lacking other than Subban and obviously he can't be any worse than DD on the unit.
exactly my man how worse can he be

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03-27-2013, 07:29 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
David Desharnais is on pace for a 46 point season, which is substantially worse than last year (60 points in 81 games) and only a little better than the 42 point pace he had two years ago, in his rookie season, playing with Darche, Pouliot, etc. He is also -2 in spite of predominantly starting in the offensive zone against defensive specialists who are not good at scoring.

He is having a bad year. Note that Pacioretty has 25 points in 28 games (+3) and Gallagher has 18 points in 28 games (+8) so it's not them.

Sometimes players have bad years. Think Plekanec in 2009. We shouldn't overevaluate -- Desharnais can bounce back by training hard in the summer and playing on Galchenyuk's wing in 2013-2014. In the meantime, Therrien should start limiting his role through the end of this season.
I don't agree totally with that statement.
It's not a bad year......it's ice time.

DD made 60 pts playing an average of 18:15 a game last year
With an average of 3:17 of PP time a game

This year: 16:32 a game + 2:51/PPtime/game

He is playing less than last year.......if you cut someone ice-time it's kind of normal is production will drop. If you take his PP time...he'll be playing only about 13minutes a games........and then you'll have a 30-40 points players.

Add to this the fact that other team learn to know who DD was and what his weaknesses is and they are using them.

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03-27-2013, 07:29 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Saw DD line vs Crosby a lot this game and line held their own. Heard Pittsburgh commentators even say "good defensive play by desharnais". I saw Crosby try to check desharnais but to no avail for an in close shot.

Crosbys goal was far from a defensive lapse. He beat tinordi and had a chance to snipe. 99% of those shots don't go in.
Also, it's actually the Plekanec line that lost possession on the play that led to the Crosby goal. There was a line change as Crosby was crossing the red line (Habs bench behind him) so the -1 from yesterday is a fluke stat. Nothing the DD line could have done on the play.

They did hold their own against Crosby, but they had another crappy game offensively. For 2 weeks now, they're grinding in the O zone (DD and Gally anyways, Pacioretty mainly floats), but while they fight puck battles behind the goal or in the corner, nothing happens in the pay zone. They can't take control of the puck and set up plays.

They better watch some tapes of what made it work in the past - and fast - or the coaching staff will have no choice but start mixing things up. For the moment, though, until Therrrien gets Prust and Bourque back (or at least one of them), line options are limited, so the only other way out is to play the 'hot' players more. And there's no such thing as a hot forward on the roster right now.

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03-27-2013, 07:31 AM
  #174
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I don't agree totally with that statement.
It's not a bad year......it's ice time.

DD made 60 pts playing an average of 18:15 a game last year
With an average of 3:17 of PP time a game

This year: 16:32 a game + 2:51/PPtime/game

He is playing less than last year.......if you cut someone ice-time it's kind of normal is production will drop. If you take his PP time...he'll be playing only about 13minutes a games........and then you'll have a 30-40 points players.

Add to this the fact that other team learn to know who DD was and what his weaknesses is and they are using them.
So you're saying he should be played more?

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03-27-2013, 07:34 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
David Desharnais is on pace for a 46 point season, which is substantially worse than last year (60 points in 81 games) and only a little better than the 42 point pace he had two years ago, in his rookie season, playing with Darche, Pouliot, etc. He is also -2 in spite of predominantly starting in the offensive zone against defensive specialists who are not good at scoring.

He is having a bad year. Note that Pacioretty has 25 points in 28 games (+3) and Gallagher has 18 points in 28 games (+8) so it's not them.

Sometimes players have bad years. Think Plekanec in 2009. We shouldn't overevaluate -- Desharnais can bounce back by training hard in the summer and playing on Galchenyuk's wing in 2013-2014. In the meantime, Therrien should start limiting his role through the end of this season.
dd is what he is my friend

a one dimensional , soft , small center who with shelterd minutes is a 50 point player who must play on a top line and plays no D

take him of the pp or with good players , he is useless

the issue is he doesnt belong on the top 6

time to phase in AG and fast

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