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Old
03-26-2013, 06:24 PM
  #451
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No interest whatsoever in Hemsky.

I would love to bring back Jussi if he made it to our spot on the waiver wire. His faceoff ability and scoring potential are too valuable to pass up if he's still there.

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03-26-2013, 06:24 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I think we're past adding, and those aren't guys you acquire for the future.
Well it depends on our window. If it's 5-6 years from now then no. If it's 2-3 years then why not? Hemsky is 29 and Whitney just turned 30. You do need some veterans. Just playing devil's advocate with Hemsky there as I'm not really interested in him, but Whitney I'm all for. Nothing wrong with having a 30 year old defenseman in your lineup.

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03-26-2013, 06:26 PM
  #453
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There's something wrong with having a 30 year old defenseman who has lost one of his greatest assets to serious ankle injuries. You're talking about trading for a damaged asset, and then turning around an signing him.

That's wasteful with the team in it's current position. If you can sign him for nothing in the summer ... great ... if you can't ... no big loss.

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03-26-2013, 06:37 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
There's something wrong with having a 30 year old defenseman who has lost one of his greatest assets to serious ankle injuries. You're talking about trading for a damaged asset, and then turning around an signing him.

That's wasteful with the team in it's current position. If you can sign him for nothing in the summer ... great ... if you can't ... no big loss.
It would depend on what we had to trade for him. If he came cheap I take a chance. His greatest asset is he's pretty good on the PP and he can head the puck up the ice from his own zone with one pass. He can still do those things. And obviously we'd have first crack at signing him to a new contract, if we decided to. At this point, there's nothing wasteful about it. The only thing we'd lose is whatever we gave in trade and as I said, "if he came cheap".

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03-26-2013, 06:49 PM
  #455
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Ryan Whitney isn't a defenseman this team should sign. Let's say a spot is opened up with a Robidas trade, the Stars will have other better options to explore in free agency. Counting on an injured player is not smart.

Visnovsky
Regehr
Scuderi
Smid
Lydman

I would rather pay any of those guys before signing Whitney. All different and all somewhat old but all would be better options than Whitney, whose best asset now is that he is a veteran (with questionable leadership attributes).

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03-26-2013, 06:59 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Ryan Whitney isn't a defenseman this team should sign. Let's say a spot is opened up with a Robidas trade, the Stars will have other better options to explore in free agency. Counting on an injured player is not smart.

Visnovsky
Regehr
Scuderi
Smid
Lydman

I would rather pay any of those guys before signing Whitney. All different and all somewhat old but all would be better options than Whitney, whose best asset now is that he is a veteran (with questionable leadership attributes).
Other than Visnovsky, Whitney is the only one who would be an improvement for us on the PP - even if he doesn't re-gain his step. THAT is his best asset. I would like Scuderi and/or Smid if we had room. I'm not sure about Scuderi's situation, but I can't see Smid being available. If he is, it's likely because he's asking for $4 mill and Edmonton refuses to give him that, and I'm not sure I give him that either. Either of the others I'd take if they came really cheap.

Here's a goal he scored vs St.Louis this season. I think he has more of this left in the tank and I really think he needs a change of scenery. I'm not sure Edmonton lets him go as cheap as they would have a few weeks ago. His game has been improving - though he's still not "there" yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKRHTpGXxKc

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Old
03-26-2013, 07:02 PM
  #457
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You're missing the point that Whitney was previous effective on the PP, and he has not demonstrated once since returning from serious ankle injuries that he is still mobile enough to be an effective player on the PP or even ES.

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Old
03-26-2013, 07:11 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
You're missing the point that Whitney was previous effective on the PP, and he has not demonstrated once since returning from serious ankle injuries that he is still mobile enough to be an effective player on the PP or even ES.
I'm not missing a darn thing bud. I live right by Edmonton, I see a lot of him, and the numbers are also dissected to the bone here. The difference between Edmonton's PP efficiency with and without him on the ice is pretty significant. And watching him play quite often, he can still move the puck. Yes he's suffered injuries but again, he just turned 30, all he needs is to get back to form. It does happen quite often believe it or not. I guess our defense core is so fabulous and good defenseman are so abundant that he's absolutely not worth taking a chance on.

I seem to recall us taking a chance on a fat, often injured, bust of a goaltender a few seasons ago.


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Old
03-26-2013, 07:14 PM
  #459
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Regehr.

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Old
03-26-2013, 07:47 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
I'm not missing a darn thing bud. I live right by Edmonton, I see a lot of him, and the numbers are also dissected to the bone here. The difference between Edmonton's PP efficiency with and without him on the ice is pretty significant. And watching him play quite often, he can still move the puck. Yes he's suffered injuries but again, he just turned 30, all he needs is to get back to form. It does happen quite often believe it or not. I guess our defense core is so fabulous and good defenseman are so abundant that he's absolutely not worth taking a chance on.

I seem to recall us taking a chance on a fat, often injured, bust of a goaltender a few seasons ago.
Lehtonen was mid-20's, had conditioning related injuries, and wasn't seriously damaged at the time of his arrival. None of those things can be said about Whitney. I appreciate that you get to see him often but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't what he used to be and was a healthy scratch on a team hurting for good defensemen.

Before bringing in a banged up body looking for redemption how about we give the best in-house option (Larsen) a chance? It's also possible Joe Morrow could be ready to contribute on the PP as early as next season, as is the possibility that Oleksiak can bring something to the table.

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Old
03-26-2013, 07:50 PM
  #461
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Other than Visnovsky, Whitney is the only one who would be an improvement for us on the PP - even if he doesn't re-gain his step. THAT is his best asset. I would like Scuderi and/or Smid if we had room. I'm not sure about Scuderi's situation, but I can't see Smid being available. If he is, it's likely because he's asking for $4 mill and Edmonton refuses to give him that, and I'm not sure I give him that either. Either of the others I'd take if they came really cheap.

Here's a goal he scored vs St.Louis this season. I think he has more of this left in the tank and I really think he needs a change of scenery. I'm not sure Edmonton lets him go as cheap as they would have a few weeks ago. His game has been improving - though he's still not "there" yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKRHTpGXxKc
We need all kinds of defensive help, not just on the PP. We need more competent defenders and Scuderi or Regehr would be great options there, though my gut says Regehr gets offered a decent contract by a team with a better chance at a Cup than the Stars. Scuderi would be option #1 for me.

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:11 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Lehtonen was mid-20's, had conditioning related injuries, and wasn't seriously damaged at the time of his arrival. None of those things can be said about Whitney. I appreciate that you get to see him often but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't what he used to be and was a healthy scratch on a team hurting for good defensemen.

Before bringing in a banged up body looking for redemption how about we give the best in-house option (Larsen) a chance? It's also possible Joe Morrow could be ready to contribute on the PP as early as next season, as is the possibility that Oleksiak can bring something to the table.
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
We need all kinds of defensive help, not just on the PP. We need more competent defenders and Scuderi or Regehr would be great options there, though my gut says Regehr gets offered a decent contract by a team with a better chance at a Cup than the Stars. Scuderi would be option #1 for me.
Whitney's banged up. Admitted. He's not what he use to be. Admitted.

The risk is he never gets any better obviously. The reward is I'm right about him and with work and confidence (just like Kari) he does re-gain at least some of his form. He has been playing better and I believe he's young enough that he can recover. It does happen. And at the very least gives us an element we're sorely missing and is hard to come by.

I honestly don't think the oilers staff handles injured players very well either. Sheldon Souray spoke out about it and that's how he ended up here. I'm very good friends with his sister too and I've been told some things.

I'm not saying Whitney would be our savior. He's not going to be Ray Bourque or Nik Lidstrom back there, but if the risk is minimal it could be one of those deals you look back on and are thankful for. You pat your GM on the back for it.

Realistically I don't see it happening though. I don't think Edmonton lets him go now for as little as they would have a few weeks ago. If they do end up trading him, it'll be to a contender who has a late 2nd rounder to cough up. Our 2nd rounder may be fairly early so that's not all that "cheap".

I'm all for Scuderi and/or Regehr, for the right price of course.

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:20 PM
  #463
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You've said a couple times injured players can regain form, that it does happen. Much more often injuries completely derail promising careers. I'd just rather let some other team take the risk. If he's still there in the bargain bin come late free agency then he may as well be worth a kick of the tires. I certainly don't want to pitch him an offer on July 1 and I absolutely wouldn't give up a single asset to get him.

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:33 PM
  #464
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You've said a couple times injured players can regain form, that it does happen. Much more often injuries completely derail promising careers. I'd just rather let some other team take the risk. If he's still there in the bargain bin come late free agency then he may as well be worth a kick of the tires. I certainly don't want to pitch him an offer on July 1 and I absolutely wouldn't give up a single asset to get him.
Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Guess we'll see where his career goes from here.

Just an update: He was +2 tonight in a 3-0 win vs St.Louis

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:03 PM
  #465
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As an American I root for the guy. I just don't want to give anything up to get him. Will be interesting to see where his career goes from here though.

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03-26-2013, 10:12 PM
  #466
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As an American I root for the guy. I just don't want to give anything up to get him. Will be interesting to see where his career goes from here though.
Agree with this... Also with Rome, Gogo, Daley and Dillon as locks for next year, I'd like to see the other spots for Oleksiak, Morrow, Larsen and maybe Nemeth later on in the season. Im also assuming Robidas isn't here next year

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Old
03-26-2013, 10:27 PM
  #467
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As an American I root for the guy. I just don't want to give anything up to get him. Will be interesting to see where his career goes from here though.
As I said I think the price is a little higher now than it was a few weeks ago when he was being sat. I'd hand over a 3rd if that's what they wanted. Some may not be willing to, but realistically a 3rd rounder has extremely slim chance of becoming anything. If you get 2-3 decent years out of a guy that's worth more than 99% of 3rd rounders already.

If the price tag was in or around that then that's what I'm talking about. It's likely that someone else gives a little more if he is shopped so that's getting out of our price range I think.

If he is sitting on the heap in the off season, if we have room at all I'd like to see us take a flyer on him.

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03-26-2013, 10:32 PM
  #468
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Agree with this... Also with Rome, Gogo, Daley and Dillon as locks for next year, I'd like to see the other spots for Oleksiak, Morrow, Larsen and maybe Nemeth later on in the season. Im also assuming Robidas isn't here next year
To me that's the only real issue - is making a spot.

I was looking at:

Daley
Dillon
Goligoski
Morrow
Oleksiak
Whitney

Then there's Larsen, Rome, Robidas?, Nemeth, and anyone else via trade or free agency (though the free agent pool isn't all that exciting this year)

It creates better competition for spots though. And gives us depth.

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03-26-2013, 10:49 PM
  #469
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We don't have the room for anyone else. Keep Robidas for now, he hasn't been bad with Dillon.

Goligoski - Oleksiak/Nemeth
Dillon - Robidas
Morrow/Daley - Larsen/Daley
Rome

If Larsen and Morrow both stick, then trade Robidas and roll with:

Goligoski - Oleksiak/Nemeth
Dillon - Larsen
Morrow - Daley
Rome

Its kind of hypocritical to complain about acquiring Cole as his spot can be filled by our prospects soon, and yet you want to sign another defenseman when we already have 4-5 spots locked up (Daley, Dillon, Goligoski, Robidas, Rome), Larsen should get a permanent top 6 spot next season, and we have 3-4 guys who can fight for the last spot.

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03-26-2013, 11:59 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
We don't have the room for anyone else. Keep Robidas for now, he hasn't been bad with Dillon.

Goligoski - Oleksiak/Nemeth
Dillon - Robidas
Morrow/Daley - Larsen/Daley
Rome

If Larsen and Morrow both stick, then trade Robidas and roll with:

Goligoski - Oleksiak/Nemeth
Dillon - Larsen
Morrow - Daley
Rome

Its kind of hypocritical to complain about acquiring Cole as his spot can be filled by our prospects soon, and yet you want to sign another defenseman when we already have 4-5 spots locked up (Daley, Dillon, Goligoski, Robidas, Rome), Larsen should get a permanent top 6 spot next season, and we have 3-4 guys who can fight for the last spot.
No no no no no no no no no no no.

The #1 offseason priority should be driving a dumptruck of Tomahawk steaks and Denny's hobbit pancakes to Ladislav Smid's house. Shoring up the defense with a real defenseman is vastly preferable to rolling Oleksiak, Nemeth, or Morrow at all next season. Just because we have guys who can fight for NHL spots because they are among the top 10 defensemen within the Stars organization does not mean that they will provide NHL level defense. Then when injuries happen we can call up somebody who is playing well instead of calling up the next warm body on the depth chart. If by some miracle we have a rookie who is capable of NHL minutes, then trade Robidas to make room, but until then sign some freaking NHL quality guys.

Dillon-Robidas
Smid/Scuderi-Goligoski
Rome-Daley
Larsen

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:01 AM
  #471
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I would love to have Ladislav Smid on this team. More so than 34 yo Rob Scuderi. Scudero is a Cup Contender piece.

I'd actually prefer Robidas to be moved and allow Larsen to play with Dillon and let someone else ride the pine...

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03-27-2013, 12:04 AM
  #472
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Hell yes to Smid.

Hell no to Whitney.

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03-27-2013, 12:05 AM
  #473
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Quote:
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Hell yes to Smid.

Hell no to Whitney.
**** it sign them both so LT's hatred balances out and we end up with an actual pairing of D-men.

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03-27-2013, 06:53 AM
  #474
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Well most seem to be saying we need either a ppqb because Gogo sucks or a guy like Grossman who we had. Both needs are because Newy failed to properly evaluate talent.

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03-27-2013, 08:28 AM
  #475
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You're missing the point that Whitney was previous effective on the PP, and he has not demonstrated once since returning from serious ankle injuries that he is still mobile enough to be an effective player on the PP or even ES.
BigG, tjcurrie is right.
Whitney isn't as bad as you make him out to be. He'd be a great asset for our PP. He's not as useless as you make it sound.

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