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what happened to Pominville?

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:31 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
I am enjoying the image of Lindy with a needle and thread hand sewing the captaincy to Pominville's sweater.

I am not up on the advanced statistics, but Pominville's giveaway/takeaway ratio this year is insanely positive and he is top 30 in blocked shots among NHL forwards.

That being said, there have been too many times I have questioned his effort this year. This is not acceptable; especially for your captain. Over the last couple of seasons I haven't liked is lack of aggressiveness on the PK. He doesn't challenge the point. Could be why his BS are pretty high because instead of challenging the shooter to force him to pass, he just gets pounded with the shot.

He has the capability and the reputation to be a top line player and a pretty reasonable cap number for this year and next. Right handed shot on the point for the PP and a PKer. He has plenty of value and I hope Regier can get the most for him in a trade. I would like a 1st and a very good prospect. (Bernier and Toffoli isn't bad either if we can move Miller).
I think that was more because of Lindy's style than anything on Pominville. They played a soft box on the PK to keep the shots outside and not get caught out of position.

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03-27-2013, 12:47 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
I think that was more because of Lindy's style than anything on Pominville. They played a soft box on the PK to keep the shots outside and not get caught out of position.
I don't disagree. However, I think he is caught too far in at times compared to some of our other PKing forwards and doesn't appear to me to move around with any sense of urgency. If he closes in, he isn't quick in getting back out into position. I haven't studied it closely or have any evidence to back it up, just strictly what I have noticed at times and been frustrated with.

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03-27-2013, 01:09 AM
  #28
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Can we also concede that his defensive game is one if the more overrated attributes that is discussed in these parts?

I've soured on him for a slew of reasons. He's not a bad guy at all, well liked by his teammates... But he and stafford are the current "reminders" and "stenches" of that Rochester core that I'm ready to cleanse my hands of.

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03-27-2013, 01:21 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Can we also concede that his defensive game is one if the more overrated attributes that is discussed in these parts?

I've soured on him for a slew of reasons. He's not a bad guy at all, well liked by his teammates... But he and stafford are the current "reminders" and "stenches" of that Rochester core that I'm ready to cleanse my hands of.
It pains me to agree with Ville Leino, but is he right that this team is too nice? Part of why I think I am souring on Pominville is that I feel he is almost too likable. He doesn't have the competitive, fiery, killer instinct.

Vanek gets a bad rap, but you can see his temper and competitiveness come out pretty regularly. Not to mention you have to have a pretty strong will to succeed to take the beating he does in front of the net and continue to play with the injuries he suffers from.

Pominville is a great player with plenty of NHL talents, but we need more energy, more spark, more desire to do anything it takes to win. And I am beginning to think he just doesn't have it.

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03-27-2013, 01:28 AM
  #30
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He's having a down year. It happens to plenty of players.

Getting rid of him is dumb. You're selling low, and you're not getting back anything that replaces his scoring immediately, on a team with like 3-4 offensive threats.

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03-27-2013, 01:32 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
He's having a down year. It happens to plenty of players.

Getting rid of him is dumb. You're selling low, and you're not getting back anything that replaces his scoring immediately, on a team with like 3-4 offensive threats.

Why are you selling low? ... His value is not hurt at all by this 20 game stretch of stench.

He would return a nice package....

Yes..you probably won't replace his scoring immediately but ... if we're building for the future...what does that matter?

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03-27-2013, 01:35 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
It pains me to agree with Ville Leino, but is he right that this team is too nice? Part of why I think I am souring on Pominville is that I feel he is almost too likable. He doesn't have the competitive, fiery, killer instinct.

Vanek gets a bad rap, but you can see his temper and competitiveness come out pretty regularly. Not to mention you have to have a pretty strong will to succeed to take the beating he does in front of the net and continue to play with the injuries he suffers from.

Pominville is a great player with plenty of NHL talents, but we need more energy, more spark, more desire to do anything it takes to win. And I am beginning to think he just doesn't have it.

I agree, nice way to put it. I soured on him years ago. Good guy, good player, lacks the it factor. I'll take the lumps with out him in the lineup.

The team needs a culture change and for me it starts with him.

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03-27-2013, 01:36 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
He's having a down year. It happens to plenty of players.

Getting rid of him is dumb. You're selling low, and you're not getting back anything that replaces his scoring immediately, on a team with like 3-4 offensive threats.
Who said you have to sell low?

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03-27-2013, 01:56 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Why are you selling low? ... His value is not hurt at all by this 20 game stretch of stench.

He would return a nice package....

Yes..you probably won't replace his scoring immediately but ... if we're building for the future...what does that matter?
We're building "for next year" according to the GM.

The next step in this process is selling off UFA's, maybe a hockey trade here or there and then finding a coach. Once you get the coach, then you go from there in regards to the big ticket items we have to sell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schpaff View Post
I agree, nice way to put it. I soured on him years ago. Good guy, good player, lacks the it factor. I'll take the lumps with out him in the lineup.

The team needs a culture change and for me it starts with him.
It started with Connolly, Roy and Gaustad.

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03-27-2013, 02:08 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
We're building "for next year" according to the GM.

The next step in this process is selling off UFA's, maybe a hockey trade here or there and then finding a coach. Once you get the coach, then you go from there in regards to the big ticket items we have to sell.



It started with Connolly, Roy and Gaustad.
and will continue with Jason...every single guy you listed were and are secondary role players handed a position of front line players. We know why this happened years ago...they excelled because of who lead this team, not because of who they were.

It's time for a change

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03-27-2013, 02:11 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
It started with Connolly, Roy and Gaustad.
And better continue in full force with Stafford and Pominville, and Miller to a slightly lesser extent. Even Vanek, too.

But, unlike he did with Connolly, and LIKE he did with Roy/Goose, Regier better get assets in return. I don't want to sit through another maddeningly inconsistent season from Stafford next year or the year after. And if we wait on Stafford, his value will only get lower and lower.

Even if Stafford rebounds next year in terms of scoring (he has to, right?? can't be much worse than right now)... he's still just too inconsistent overall for me to have any desire to retain him. What a waste of a blessed combination of skill/size. The up and down, streaky nature of his game even in his good years is enough to drive you nuts.

Change that scenery, dude.

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03-27-2013, 02:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
We're building "for next year" according to the GM.

The next step in this process is selling off UFA's, maybe a hockey trade here or there and then finding a coach. Once you get the coach, then you go from there in regards to the big ticket items we have to sell.



It started with Connolly, Roy and Gaustad.
Another problem I have with keeping Pominville and Miller is that I don't really want to resign them after next season. Keeping them for next year and winning means we either resign them or risk losing them for nothing. Keeping them and losing means we trade them at the deadline as rentals and at probably a lower asking price than now. Plus, if we keep them and are no better off next year, what have we accomplished?

Trading them now: Maximizes the return, likely improves our chances of a better draft position, and gives us more time to evaluate the players remaining with increased ice time.

Not to mention, this trade deadline is considered a sellers market because of the number of teams in contention for a playoff spot. With that and a seemingly deep draft, seems like the perfect time to retool. Oh yeah, we also would have an even younger roster with a current coach whose reputation is developing young players. Let's do this.

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03-27-2013, 02:30 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpaff View Post
and will continue with Jason...every single guy you listed were and are secondary role players handed a position of front line players. We know why this happened years ago...they excelled because of who lead this team, not because of who they were.

It's time for a change
Pominville isn't even in the same breath as those 3, he's coming off an all-star year, and is a legitimate first line winger.

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03-27-2013, 02:35 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Pominville isn't even in the same breath as those 3, he's coming off an all-star year, and is a legitimate first line winger.
His value is diminishing, which worries me. I still think he'd garner a nice return, and if he were to ever hit the market, he'd surely bank in free agency.

He's just not a part of the movement I want to see going forward.

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03-27-2013, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
His value is diminishing, which worries me. I still think he'd garner a nice return, and if he were to ever hit the market, he'd surely bank in free agency.

He's just not a part of the movement I want to see going forward.
Do you say the same about Vanek? They're pretty similar.

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03-27-2013, 02:38 AM
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Do you say the same about Vanek? They're pretty similar.
To a lesser degree.

Fair or not, Pominville is in a different light being the captain of the team.

I also think that Vanek is a much more dangerous offensive threat, with talent that's harder to find. But if you're asking if I'd hesitate to get rid of either of them, the answer is "no"

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03-27-2013, 02:43 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
To a lesser degree.

Fair or not, Pominville is in a different light being the captain of the team.

I also think that Vanek is a much more dangerous offensive threat, with talent that's harder to find. But if you're asking if I'd hesitate to get rid of either of them, the answer is "no"
Fair enough. I don't really agree with trading either. I don't think this team gets better any time soon with a full rebuild. There's enough decent pieces to build around and turn things around sooner rather than later.

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03-27-2013, 02:49 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Slump started way before he split from Vanek. 11 points in last 26 games. Hodgson has 22 points over that same time.

Sabres captains are cursed. They never last more than 3 years in Buffalo with the C.
True, though if you google each guy's game log, you can see that Pominville's production drops off when Vanek's does. If we're blaming Vanek's drop on injury, then it's fair to assume that Pommerz had been feeding off Vanek at the beginning of the year.

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03-27-2013, 03:06 AM
  #44
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Fair enough. I don't really agree with trading either. I don't think this team gets better any time soon with a full rebuild. There's enough decent pieces to build around and turn things around sooner rather than later.
The point of a full rebuild isn't to get immediately better, though. It's to rebuild your structure to be better a few years down the road. I think it's very realistic if done right. And I'm willing to be very, very patient if there are moves made that's indicate rebuilding.

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03-27-2013, 03:35 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Pominville isn't even in the same breath as those 3, he's coming off an all-star year, and is a legitimate first line winger.

True...good guy, good player. Not a leader/captain in my opinion, he his a role player on a first line.

This team needs to reload...needs new voices, direction and most of all some responsibility from a captain and leader.

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03-27-2013, 06:14 AM
  #46
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Columbus went from a bottom dweller with Rick Nash to a possible playoff birth the first year without him. The Rangers went from Conference champs without Rick Nash to fighting for a playoff spot the first year with him.

This isn't to say that Rick Nash is the cause. I am saying that you don't necessarily get worse or have no chance to improve when you trade talented players.

If we are in this position WITH Pominville, who is to say we aren't just as good or better without him? You can assume because of the kind of player he is, but that doesn't always equate to reality.

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03-27-2013, 06:59 AM
  #47
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Pommerz isn't a playmaker. He needs someone to set him up, and replacing Vanek with Ott takes a playmaker away from him. He's a solid scorer, but he can't create offense by himself. He made a career for himself playing with Briere, continued with Vanek, and isn't nearly as effective as the primary offensive option on a line. Hodgson is good, but not good enough to create for Pominville yet.
Pominville and Vanek didn't start playing together until last season. He's had Hecht as his C or LW for most of the time since '07.

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03-27-2013, 07:13 AM
  #48
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Friedman was on the radio saying that he has spoken with GMs around the league and while they have not heard that Pomminville was on the market, if he were ever to get there Darcy would get a lot in return for him. That was before the report that everyone is available on the Sabres came out.

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03-27-2013, 09:34 AM
  #49
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Giving him the captaincy was a terrible idea. He can't handle that weight on his shoulder. When things got tough, he's buckled. It also seems to have hurt him that Lindy is gone. Lindy seemed to get the best out of him.

He really needs to be traded. Need a captain who will be accountable. Other players won't be accountable if he isn't.

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03-27-2013, 09:55 AM
  #50
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His misses his Lindy
Pretty much. He was a system guy through and through...Lindy's not here anymore so Pominville sucks now.

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