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Old
08-05-2006, 12:46 PM
  #51
Evil Speaker
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Originally Posted by Whatever Man View Post
You don't get it.

Wasn't St. Louis always fast?
Wasn't he always good with the puck?

So enlighten me as to what it was that took him from not being able to make a non playoff Calgary team, to being the Art Ross trophy winner?

I'll give you a hint.

St.Louis is only 5'-9" tall and weighs 185lbs.





He worked out, put on muscle and got stronger.
I allready told you, he developed his skills, became a more mature player and found his niche. That then led to more ice time and better team mates to help him become what he is today. Go around any league in the world and the best players aren't the strongest players, they're the most mature.

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Old
08-05-2006, 02:24 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Whatever Man View Post
Right there!^ Up there in bold.
That is where you and everyone else is making the mistake. St.Louis can do it because he does do the weight training. Why do you think he was invisible until he was 26-27 yrs old? He wasn't strong enough. It took him time to become strong enough to do what he does.

As cut as Hull may have been, a 245 lb Bertuzzi is still going to knock him down, and out muscle Hull for the puck alot more often than 185 lb Norm Ullman ever did. Can you see? It is not as much Hull as it is what he has to face.
Funny, 190-pound Chris Chelios neutralized (to say the least) Todd Bertuzzi in the 2002 playoffs. Bertuzzi was a non-factor.

Rookie, I own part of an international gym chain. So if anyone here is going to pimp the value of going to the gym, it's going to be me. And I can tell you, flat out, that farm work is a far better workout than anything at my gym, or any other gym. Bench presses, squats and leg presses? That's nothing compared to tossing 50-pound hay bales around all day, wrestling with disobedient cattle and horses, and trying to catch a chicken. ("If you can catch a chicken, you can catch anything.")

BTW, Tim Horton is considered by many to be the strongest player ever. (The Tim Horton "bearhug" is legendary). The secret to his success? Working in the mines in southern Ontario.

I reiterate a previous question: What do you actually know about Bobby Hull? Before reading murray's first-hand accounts, did you actually know about the speed, the shot or the instincts? Did you know about the sculpted physique? Have you talked to the players who faced him? Have you spoken to knowledgeable hockey historians about him? Or are you speaking out of erroneous, pre-conceived notions? Because the only word I think of, when I think about you, is erroneous.

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Old
08-05-2006, 02:38 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Funny, 190-pound Chris Chelios neutralized (to say the least) Todd Bertuzzi in the 2002 playoffs. Bertuzzi was a non-factor.

Rookie, I own part of an international gym chain. So if anyone here is going to pimp the value of going to the gym, it's going to be me. And I can tell you, flat out, that farm work is a far better workout than anything at my gym, or any other gym. Bench presses, squats and leg presses? That's nothing compared to tossing 50-pound hay bales around all day, wrestling with disobedient cattle and horses, and trying to catch a chicken. ("If you can catch a chicken, you can catch anything.")

BTW, Tim Horton is considered by many to be the strongest player ever. (The Tim Horton "bearhug" is legendary). The secret to his success? Working in the mines in southern Ontario.

I reiterate a previous question: What do you actually know about Bobby Hull? Before reading murray's first-hand accounts, did you actually know about the speed, the shot or the instincts? Did you know about the sculpted physique? Have you talked to the players who faced him? Have you spoken to knowledgeable hockey historians about him? Or are you speaking out of erroneous, pre-conceived notions? Because the only word I think of, when I think about you, is erroneous.
If you are such an expert and own your own gym how could you make such a completely wrtong statement that Farmwork was better than anything you could do in a gym?

I really think you just make things up to suit yourself.

Go look at Brind'amour and tell me where I find farmers that look like that?

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Old
08-05-2006, 03:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Whatever Man View Post
If you are such an expert and own your own gym how could you make such a completely wrtong statement that Farmwork was better than anything you could do in a gym?

I really think you just make things up to suit yourself.

Go look at Brind'amour and tell me where I find farmers that look like that?
And being ripped is the only indicator of strength or physical fitness.

I'm not saying that Brind'Amour isn't in great shape, or that he isn't strong. Just watch him battle in the corners or in the faceoff circle. The guy is very strong. He's been one of the league's fitness kings throughout his career. (Brind'Amour became the undisputed fittest guy in the league when Ray Bourque retired in 2001). While he's a gym nut, and a tireless fitness freak, there's also no question that Brind'Amour, like Hull, is blessed genetically.

If you want to see strength doesn't always equal physique look at top pro football defensive linemen. In the NFL, they don't have the most impressive physiques. Certainly nothing like Brind'Amour or Hull. But many weigh over 300 pounds, can bench press much more than their own body weight, and have well under 10 per cent body fat. (Note: Gilbert Brown doesn't count).

I'm just saying there are other ways to work out and achieve fitness than a gym. Having both a farming background (extensive farming ties throughout my family) and a fitness background (shareholder/part-owner, whatever you want to call it, in my gym, an international gym [and it's not Curves for Women, so don't try that crack]), I think I know a little something about strength training. And I can tell you that the more extensive and more effective workout is on the farm. Bench pressing 200 pounds is nothing compared to wrestling with disobedient cattle.

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08-05-2006, 03:12 PM
  #55
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It makes no difference to me if you were a 50% shareholder in Golds Gym. There is no way you can get as strong on the farm as you can get in the gym.

If you think NHL players are only bench pressing 200lbs you are reallly underestimating them.

I have wrestled with steers, and pigs, tossed hay. As I said earlier alot of my family were farmers.

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08-05-2006, 09:26 PM
  #56
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Old
08-09-2006, 09:19 AM
  #57
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My vote goes to Beliveau.
But Richard, Hull or one of the great goalies named in his thread are definitely worth it.

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08-09-2006, 09:41 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Funny, 190-pound Chris Chelios neutralized (to say the least) Todd Bertuzzi in the 2002 playoffs. Bertuzzi was a non-factor.

Rookie, I own part of an international gym chain. So if anyone here is going to pimp the value of going to the gym, it's going to be me. And I can tell you, flat out, that farm work is a far better workout than anything at my gym, or any other gym. Bench presses, squats and leg presses? That's nothing compared to tossing 50-pound hay bales around all day, wrestling with disobedient cattle and horses, and trying to catch a chicken. ("If you can catch a chicken, you can catch anything.")

BTW, Tim Horton is considered by many to be the strongest player ever. (The Tim Horton "bearhug" is legendary). The secret to his success? Working in the mines in southern Ontario.

I reiterate a previous question: What do you actually know about Bobby Hull? Before reading murray's first-hand accounts, did you actually know about the speed, the shot or the instincts? Did you know about the sculpted physique? Have you talked to the players who faced him? Have you spoken to knowledgeable hockey historians about him? Or are you speaking out of erroneous, pre-conceived notions? Because the only word I think of, when I think about you, is erroneous.
I worked on a pumpkin farm. Havesting Pumpkins is better as a workout then hours in a gym. First you stack the pumpkins into piles. Then you throw them onto a wagon. Then you throw them off a wagon. The lighter the pumpkin the farther you end up throwing it. Even the small pumpkins are a workout if you are throwing and catching them 20 or 30 feet away. And the big 40-60 pound pumpkins are a huge workout. Havest pumpkins for a month for 6-12 hours a day for 25-35 days straight and that will give you a workout you can not imagine. You basicly lift and stack and throw and catch medecine balls weighing 2-60 pounds all day ever day. Stacking Hay is the same thing.

As to Horton in a coal mine. Didn't know that. Can't have been great on his lungs though, nor would be working with Hay in a barn on a regular basis.

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Old
08-09-2006, 01:23 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
I worked on a pumpkin farm. Havesting Pumpkins is better as a workout then hours in a gym. First you stack the pumpkins into piles. Then you throw them onto a wagon. Then you throw them off a wagon. The lighter the pumpkin the farther you end up throwing it. Even the small pumpkins are a workout if you are throwing and catching them 20 or 30 feet away. And the big 40-60 pound pumpkins are a huge workout. Havest pumpkins for a month for 6-12 hours a day for 25-35 days straight and that will give you a workout you can not imagine. You basicly lift and stack and throw and catch medecine balls weighing 2-60 pounds all day ever day. Stacking Hay is the same thing.

As to Horton in a coal mine. Didn't know that. Can't have been great on his lungs though, nor would be working with Hay in a barn on a regular basis.


Funny. Try a gym for 6-12 hours a day and then you can compare it to your pumkin piling. I could give you on a 90 minute workout that if you aren't already a serious weight lifter, you wouldn't even be able to move the next day.

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Old
08-09-2006, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Good thread gone bad.

In any case, doing physical labour is a far better workout then isolating muscle groups in a gym no matter how much weight you're lifting. Those big beach muscles can do well on a machine but wont in real life activities and that's where it counts.

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Old
08-09-2006, 02:00 PM
  #61
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Good thread gone bad.

In any case, doing physical labour is a far better workout then isolating muscle groups in a gym no matter how much weight you're lifting. Those big beach muscles can do well on a machine but wont in real life activities and that's where it counts.
That is so wrong it is beyond funny. You can replicate any movement from physical labour with free weights.

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Old
08-09-2006, 10:59 PM
  #62
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I'm actually going to have to agree with whatever man on this one. No way is physical labour better for strength than a good weight routine. You can't isolate certain muscles that way. I think that if you're working in the mines or on the farm all day you're going to get stronger than if you're going for a workout after work at the gym. However, for those who are at the highest level in their sport, the time spent in the gym IS their job. I'm no gym buff as I probably never spend more than 20 hours a week in the gym and I'm a wopping 145 lbs, but I do know from experience that if you have the proper coaching, there's nothing better than weights (I include the med ball in weights) for strength training. Hill work is great also, but you'll lose too much bulk if you're doing it for hockey.

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Old
08-09-2006, 11:03 PM
  #63
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And a strong core is very important in hockey as well, which is very difficult to get if you're not focussing on core routines.

That being said, I think Doug Harvey is #5, because to me the mental side of the game is much more important than the physical. But that's just my opinion.

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Old
08-10-2006, 12:43 AM
  #64
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And a strong core is very important in hockey as well, which is very difficult to get if you're not focussing on core routines.
The thing is, with hockey players, their endurance and most of their important stregth areas are built up by actually playing the game, such as the core, wrists, chest (to a lesser extent) and leg stregth. For example playing an hour of hockey will keep you in better shape than spending an hour running on the tred mill. Taking hits and battling in the corners for the puck is better for your core and chest than doing a couple dozen torso twists and bench presses, and shooting the puck builds up wrists stregth much better than wrist curls do.


Last edited by Evil Speaker: 08-10-2006 at 12:59 AM.
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