HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Josh Gorges $3.9M/6 years Bad Contract or Good?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-27-2013, 11:08 AM
  #51
tiz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,615
vCash: 500
Gorges and Subban will be our goto shutdown pair in the playoffs and probably for some years ahead. I agree he probably has too much PP time at the moment, but the team is cruising comfortably so there really isn't any harm in that.

tiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 11:09 AM
  #52
Bob Cole
Registered User
 
Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,844
vCash: 500
Good contract. Will be even better when hes the captain.

Bob Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 11:12 AM
  #53
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiz View Post
Gorges and Subban will be our goto shutdown pair in the playoffs and probably for some years ahead. I agree he probably has too much PP time at the moment, but the team is cruising comfortably so there really isn't any harm in that.
He's on the PP because Diaz is out, not because they see him as a PP QB. Diaz would cut out Gorges completely and also cut into Bouillon's time a bit.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 11:15 AM
  #54
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,616
vCash: 500
Number 4 on a good day, number 6 on a bad day. Term is bad, salary is okay.

He's been laying AHL hockey this season. NOT the Gorges we know.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 11:18 AM
  #55
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Number 4 on a good day, number 6 on a bad day. Term is bad, salary is okay.

He's been laying AHL hockey this season. NOT the Gorges we know.
Huh?

Are you watching the same team and player as me?

AHL hockey this season?

I don't know of too many NHL teams where he wouldn't be top 4 right now. Even on bad days his effort and compete level make him an asset.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 11:26 AM
  #56
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Huh?

Are you watching the same team and player as me?

AHL hockey this season?

I don't know of too many NHL teams where he wouldn't be top 4 right now. Even on bad days his effort and compete level make him an asset.
He's constantly out of position and turns the puck over WAY too many times.
He's responsible for 5-6 goals alone. (NYI, PITT, TO, PITT, NYI.)

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 11:35 AM
  #57
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He's constantly out of position and turns the puck over WAY too many times.
He's responsible for 5-6 goals alone. (NYI, PITT, TO, PITT, NYI.)
Sorry, but you are way out to lunch on this topic.

Gorges is a very good d-man, anyone who doesn't agree simply doesn't understand the game.

Estimated_Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:02 PM
  #58
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeBeaver View Post
Without divulging into comparable salaries or stats, one can account his worth for looking at what he does, not what he cannot do.

A hard nosed vet, who is vocal in the locker room and is a shot blocking machine (that will be a huge factor in the playoffs by the way).

He won't clear the crease with ease, nor will he get you 15 goals. However he shows qualities that every team should have. Character, showmanship, never-say-die mentality. Just the 'head down and give er' type guy who sets examples. Is never in the headlines, and I am okay with that.

Worth it.
I think that bolded point needs to be reinforced. Salaries aren't determined by working backwards from what the "perfect" player "should" give you for the league maximum. They're figured on what the player brings to the table, and allows for different kinds of skillsets to be "worth" the same after all the reckoning is done.

It'd be nice to save more money on Gorges, but when you add up everything that's good about having him on the Habs, and what he does, $3.9M/year doesn't seem like an amount that's worth spending the time dissecting for value. Seems absolutely fair, imo.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:02 PM
  #59
Ceux de Montreal
Horrible proposal!!!
 
Ceux de Montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: omg montréal lolzzz
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,785
vCash: 500
OK so here's my editorial on Gorges.

He is a great teammate to have around and a good #4-5 defenceman. I am one of his biggest fan and he's a warrior especially in the big games. His contract isnt a problem as long as we do not give him extra responsabilities or I should say extra visibility.

Many people interpret his leadership qualities into captaincy but I don't think he should become the next captain because it is just putting unnecessary additionnal weight on his shoulder. His flaws would be exposed in the media night in/night out and we'd have polls asking « Is Gorges the all-time worst captain of the Montreal Canadiens? » because of his limited skillset. His salary, with the cap coming down, would also play against him like it did for Brisebois. The only thing Brisebois did wrong in his first stint with Montréal was earning too much money.

We would run Gorges out of town like we did with Brisebois. It would be a mistake.

He's a wonderful assistant captain. Just give the C to Markov if Gionta happen to leave.

Ceux de Montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:20 PM
  #60
Canadian_Brewtality
Registered User
 
Canadian_Brewtality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I think his leadership is overstated. He's 12th in blocked shots. Again, $4M for this? There may be dmen who will have a few less blocked shots but can actually do something offensively, who can move the puck, who bring a physical edge. All I'm saying is it's a lot of money for a shot blocker. He was perfect for a Martin system... Torts should grab him.
Overstated by who? You as an outsider? Makes sense. The team identifies him as an assistant captain & leader, but you believe its overstated. Sure.

And just a shot blocker? A little over simplified, yah think?

Canadian_Brewtality is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:26 PM
  #61
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 20,954
vCash: 500
I predict Bergevin to go even younger next year, I would not be surprised if Gorges is traded this summer. He's starting to get beat-up.

Kimota is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:26 PM
  #62
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
OK so here's my editorial on Gorges.

He is a great teammate to have around and a good #4-5 defenceman. I am one of his biggest fan and he's a warrior especially in the big games. His contract isnt a problem as long as we do not give him extra responsabilities or I should say extra visibility.

Many people interpret his leadership qualities into captaincy but I don't think he should become the next captain because it is just putting unnecessary additionnal weight on his shoulder. His flaws would be exposed in the media night in/night out and we'd have polls asking « Is Gorges the all-time worst captain of the Montreal Canadiens? » because of his limited skillset. His salary, with the cap coming down, would also play against him like it did for Brisebois. The only thing Brisebois did wrong in his first stint with Montréal was earning too much money.

We would run Gorges out of town like we did with Brisebois. It would be a mistake.

He's a wonderful assistant captain. Just give the C to Markov if Gionta happen to leave.
You can't compare Gorges to Brisebois on any level. Brisebois was treated unfairly by the fans and media as they took their criticism way too far. That being said, Brisebois was very mistake prone and did have some truly awful blunders. Gorges plays an extremely safe game with very few mistakes. Brisebois was also an offensive d-man who never produced up to his percieved potential.

It is ridiculous to question Gorges as a potential captain as he is always front and center in the media scrum after games and has his teammates respect as a leader on the team, both on and off the ice. Naming Markov as a captain isn't even an option. He can be a little bit prickly at times and clearly would prefer to be out of the spotlight. Combine this with the fact that he probably won't be around for very long and it is a silly notion to even consider him for captain.

Estimated_Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:29 PM
  #63
Prairie Habs
Registered User
 
Prairie Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
OK so here's my editorial on Gorges.

He is a great teammate to have around and a good #4-5 defenceman. I am one of his biggest fan and he's a warrior especially in the big games. His contract isnt a problem as long as we do not give him extra responsabilities or I should say extra visibility.

Many people interpret his leadership qualities into captaincy but I don't think he should become the next captain because it is just putting unnecessary additionnal weight on his shoulder. His flaws would be exposed in the media night in/night out and we'd have polls asking « Is Gorges the all-time worst captain of the Montreal Canadiens? » because of his limited skillset. His salary, with the cap coming down, would also play against him like it did for Brisebois. The only thing Brisebois did wrong in his first stint with Montréal was earning too much money.

We would run Gorges out of town like we did with Brisebois. It would be a mistake.

He's a wonderful assistant captain. Just give the C to Markov if Gionta happen to leave.
Gorges would be the perfect captain because people can't complain about his production because that is not what he is here to do. Any media person ho tries to say otherwise will be ignored by fans with even the slightest amount of hockey knowledge.

I also don't get the people trying to underrate Gorges leadership. He lead the league in shots last year ON A LAST PLACE TEAM. Do you how much harder it would be to sacrifice your body every game when you know the games don't even mean anything? He never gives up and he would be/is a great role model for our younger players (look at BGally).

Another perfect example of his heart and leadership is the Malone fight in preseason last year. Campoli had been on our team one day when he took a questionable hit but Gorges still fought Malone knowing he would get his *** handed to him. Pretty much every one of Gorges rare fights are against someone much bigger than him when he is standing up for a teammate.

Edit: also I believe Markov turned down the C after Koivu left so I doubt he takes it now. He isn't really that kind of leader anyway.

Prairie Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #64
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He's constantly out of position and turns the puck over WAY too many times.
He's responsible for 5-6 goals alone. (NYI, PITT, TO, PITT, NYI.)
You're way off the reservation. I have watched close to every minute of every game and I can say he might be responsible on his own for 2-3 goals. That's a minuscule for a regular NHL defenseman.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:40 PM
  #65
Gabe84
Bring back Bonk!
 
Gabe84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Gorges would be the perfect captain because people can't complain about his production because that is not what he is here to do. Any media person ho tries to say otherwise will be ignored by fans with even the slightest amount of hockey knowledge.

I also don't get the people trying to underrate Gorges leadership. He lead the league in shots last year ON A LAST PLACE TEAM. Do you how much harder it would be to sacrifice your body every game when you know the games don't even mean anything? He never gives up and he would be/is a great role model for our younger players (look at BGally).

Another perfect example of his heart and leadership is the Malone fight in preseason last year. Campoli had been on our team one day when he took a questionable hit but Gorges still fought Malone knowing he would get his *** handed to him. Pretty much every one of Gorges rare fights are against someone much bigger than him when he is standing up for a teammate.

Edit: also I believe Markov turned down the C after Koivu left so I doubt he takes it now. He isn't really that kind of leader anyway.
Or the McLaren fight this season. Two guys that are way bigger and way more skilled fighters than Gorges.

I love Gorges. I think the "original" contract was perfect. That said, with the cap going down next season, Gorges will be overpaid.

I don't mind though.

Gabe84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:44 PM
  #66
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
OK so here's my editorial on Gorges.

He is a great teammate to have around and a good #4-5 defenceman. I am one of his biggest fan and he's a warrior especially in the big games. His contract isnt a problem as long as we do not give him extra responsabilities or I should say extra visibility.

Many people interpret his leadership qualities into captaincy but I don't think he should become the next captain because it is just putting unnecessary additionnal weight on his shoulder. His flaws would be exposed in the media night in/night out and we'd have polls asking « Is Gorges the all-time worst captain of the Montreal Canadiens? » because of his limited skillset. His salary, with the cap coming down, would also play against him like it did for Brisebois. The only thing Brisebois did wrong in his first stint with Montréal was earning too much money.

We would run Gorges out of town like we did with Brisebois. It would be a mistake.

He's a wonderful assistant captain. Just give the C to Markov if Gionta happen to leave.
Not sure Brisebois is relevant.

His problem wasn't money but being asked to be a #1 or 2 when he should have been a #3 or 4(at least until he was 27-28). They put him in a bad spot by trading Chelios then Schneider then Desjardins, making him the de-facto #1 or 2 guy at a young age.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 12:44 PM
  #67
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I predict Bergevin to go even younger next year, I would not be surprised if Gorges is traded this summer. He's starting to get beat-up.
dont think he's beat up already, but will be soon (kinda), the type of game he plays is very hard on the body.

ECWHSWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 01:18 PM
  #68
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,616
vCash: 500
Let's see... All the bad goals Price gave against Stamkos(1), JT(2), Moulson(1), Sid(1) and numerous other dangerous chances were DIRECTLY affected by Gorges play.

He's been bad this year get over it. Last year how many positioning mistake did he have ? 4? 8 ? This year he has over 10 of them in less than half the games. He's not playing well even though you don't like it .

Frankly, I don't know why he gets the easy treatment he shouldnt be immune to critics.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 01:32 PM
  #69
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Let's see... All the bad goals Price gave against Stamkos(1), JT(2), Moulson(1), Sid(1) and numerous other dangerous chances were DIRECTLY affected by Gorges play.

He's been bad this year get over it. Last year how many positioning mistake did he have ? 4? 8 ? This year he has over 10 of them in less than half the games. He's not playing well even though you don't like it .

Frankly, I don't know why he gets the easy treatment he shouldnt be immune to critics.
He's not getting any easier treatment than anybody else. He's an important part of the defense and what the Habs have done so far. How can you bame Gorges for Price giving up bad goals. If anybody is not loving up to his contract it's CP. He had a strong start but had only been average the last 4-5 weeks.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #70
onemorecup*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This has nothing to do with tonight's game as I have brought this up before.

Not to knock on the guy, but I'm still unclear as to why he's making this much money? Leadership and shot blocking can be had for much less.

Skillset:

Above average defensively, but smallish and unable to clear the front of the net. Physical game leaves a lot to be desired. Good locker room guy and a leader.

0 offensive ability.
totally agreed

onemorecup* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 01:53 PM
  #71
onemorecup*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
He's a reliable top-4 defenseman making below-market money. Tampa or Philly or a number of teams would kill to have him on their team and at that contract.

I don't see an issue, other than expecting him to do anything offensively. I think you're selling him short by saying he's "above average"...he's not having a great season, but he's a good to very good shutdown defenseman. He takes the body well and lays it all out on the ice.

He's Gionta on defense, and that's why I'm a huge fan of both.
he is ok but man oh man , if 4 mil buys a Gorges thats crazy money in sports

ask TB what 5 mil bought them in Carle , stupid money for slightly above average players

onemorecup* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #72
BlackStar
Registered User
 
BlackStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,258
vCash: 500
Gorges has not been spectacular, nor is he paid to be. He's being paid to be a good defensive player and leader for this team, and he's been doing just that.

BlackStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 02:34 PM
  #73
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Let's see... All the bad goals Price gave against Stamkos(1), JT(2), Moulson(1), Sid(1) and numerous other dangerous chances were DIRECTLY affected by Gorges play.
Three of the players you named are some of the best players in the game today and can score on any goalie in the league on any given night.

The fourth in Moulson is pretty close to a superstar.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 02:37 PM
  #74
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 8,544
vCash: 500
Just to chime in.

Good contract. Not sure why people have been on him lately. He had a couple of bad games earlier, but he was pretty solid last night and in the past week. He is a very rare type of D-man and we're not just paying him for past exploits, but for his current and future continued leadership and play on the blue line.

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 02:48 PM
  #75
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
This thread is a great example of people who live with giant cones on their head that prohibit them from paying attention to any team other than the Montreal Canadiens.

There's a little thing on Capgeek called "Comparables" that allows you to input any player and out comes the players compared to them.

On it you will see players like John-Michael Liles, Eric Brewer, Tim Gleason, Tom Gilbert, Filip Kuba, Robyn Regehr, Kyle Quincey, Brooks Orpik, etc. all players who make as much, more or less than Gorges.

Honestly the only guys on the list I'd take over Gorges for sure are Enstrom and Hedman. Maybe Erik Johnson. But Gorges is overpaid?

Even then, one simply has to look at Anton Volchenkov in New Jersey. He's a $4.25M with only one expectation: good defensive play. Gorges is younger and makes less. Volchenkov received his contract on free agency. If that doesn't tell you that Gorges is well priced, you're just ignorant.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.