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Josh Gorges $3.9M/6 years Bad Contract or Good?

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03-27-2013, 03:04 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
This thread is a great example of people who live with giant cones on their head that prohibit them from paying attention to any team other than the Montreal Canadiens.

There's a little thing on Capgeek called "Comparables" that allows you to input any player and out comes the players compared to them.

On it you will see players like John-Michael Liles, Eric Brewer, Tim Gleason, Tom Gilbert, Filip Kuba, Robyn Regehr, Kyle Quincey, Brooks Orpik, etc. all players who make as much, more or less than Gorges.

Honestly the only guys on the list I'd take over Gorges for sure are Enstrom and Hedman. Maybe Erik Johnson. But Gorges is overpaid?

Even then, one simply has to look at Anton Volchenkov in New Jersey. He's a $4.25M with only one expectation: good defensive play. Gorges is younger and makes less. Volchenkov received his contract on free agency. If that doesn't tell you that Gorges is well priced, you're just ignorant.
Good post. I wouldn't say no to Gleason, though. Him or a methot is exactly what this team needs.

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03-27-2013, 03:08 PM
  #77
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Three of the players you named are some of the best players in the game today and can score on any goalie in the league on any given night.

The fourth in Moulson is pretty close to a superstar.
Totally.

But who is Gorges, though?
He's paid like our prime shutdown left D. He should be our prime shutdown D (Well after Subban) But the guy had 3443943 brain cramps this year. Maybe its the system, I don't know.
But to say he's been solid or what ever is just living under a rock.

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03-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #78
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He is overpaid but its not a "bad" contract.

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03-27-2013, 03:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Totally.

But who is Gorges, though?
He's paid like our prime shutdown left D. He should be our prime shutdown D (Well after Subban) But the guy had 3443943 brain cramps this year. Maybe its the system, I don't know.
But to say he's been solid or what ever is just living under a rock.
Maybe you're just obsessing over his performances?

I used to do that about Pierre Turgeon. Turgeon could do nothing right in my eyes. Watching some of the games later I realized he simply wasn't perfect and that I expected perfection out of him due to what his supposed roles and labels were. I also realized I was blaming him for not being Pat LaFontaine.

Maybe step back a bit?

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03-27-2013, 03:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Maybe you're just obsessing over his performances?

I used to do that about Pierre Turgeon. Turgeon could do nothing right in my eyes. Watching some of the games later I realized he simply wasn't perfect and that I expected perfection out of him due to what his supposed roles and labels were. I also realized I was blaming him for not being Pat LaFontaine.

Maybe step back a bit?
Not at all. I'm expecting him to be what he's been for 3 years now. He hasnt played up to it and thats it.

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03-27-2013, 04:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
This thread is a great example of people who live with giant cones on their head that prohibit them from paying attention to any team other than the Montreal Canadiens.

There's a little thing on Capgeek called "Comparables" that allows you to input any player and out comes the players compared to them.

On it you will see players like John-Michael Liles, Eric Brewer, Tim Gleason, Tom Gilbert, Filip Kuba, Robyn Regehr, Kyle Quincey, Brooks Orpik, etc. all players who make as much, more or less than Gorges.

Honestly the only guys on the list I'd take over Gorges for sure are Enstrom and Hedman. Maybe Erik Johnson. But Gorges is overpaid?

Even then, one simply has to look at Anton Volchenkov in New Jersey. He's a $4.25M with only one expectation: good defensive play. Gorges is younger and makes less. Volchenkov received his contract on free agency. If that doesn't tell you that Gorges is well priced, you're just ignorant.
The problem with hockey salaries is this

the front line star like the Sedin`s , Crosby, etc are all 6 plus mil

I have no problem paying big money to legit FRONT LINE TALENT

but its lunacy when Gio , Cammy , Wideman , Grabovsky , etc.... make 5 plus

that is nuts when most of these guys dont make a difference at all , I dont care if its free agency 99% of the time none of these transactions work , meaning the team actually improves and the player earns his money


I cant explain how a GM can think that adding a Komi and Colby at 7.5 mil in cap space on a leaf team going nowhere makes sense ,when they are dime a dozen players

Funny how a year later the dude on the trade block is the same one you grossly overpaid

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03-27-2013, 04:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Totally.

But who is Gorges, though?
He's paid like our prime shutdown left D. He should be our prime shutdown D (Well after Subban) But the guy had 3443943 brain cramps this year. Maybe its the system, I don't know.
But to say he's been solid or what ever is just living under a rock.
agreed he has been average at best this year

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03-27-2013, 04:29 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by marvelousmotion View Post
Gorges is steady and reliable, period. With him, you get what you expect. You know that he will never take a shift off and will always give his all for his team every single shift. He does the little things right, rarely makes mistakes and often wins his puck battles. Excellent work ethic and team first player. He's also relatively young at 28 and will be around 33 by the time his contract expires.

That being said, I also agree that he doesn't have much offensive flair (to be honest, I have no clue what he is doing on the PP) and that he's not overly physical. While it's true that $3.9M/year is not necessarily a bargain, I would say that the value of his contract is fair. He would cost a lot more than that if he had one of the two aforementioned abilities that he lacks.
why repeat a great point--ill point to the creator and agree

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03-27-2013, 04:32 PM
  #84
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Good post. I wouldn't say no to Gleason, though. Him or a methot is exactly what this team needs.
Pretty sure I'd take Orpik over Gorges too.

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03-27-2013, 04:37 PM
  #85
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Pretty sure I'd take Orpik over Gorges too.
Really? Orpik takes horrible penalties, has braincramps all the time and does all the things Gorges is accused of in this thread (except that he doesn't do them). Has Gorges really been bad this year? He's maybe had 4-5 games where he made a mistake. Otherwise, he's been near perfect in carrying out his role. I'm very confident with him on the ice and honestly Subban and him are the perfect pairing. Would not want Icepik.

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03-27-2013, 04:58 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
This thread is a great example of people who live with giant cones on their head that prohibit them from paying attention to any team other than the Montreal Canadiens.

There's a little thing on Capgeek called "Comparables" that allows you to input any player and out comes the players compared to them.

On it you will see players like John-Michael Liles, Eric Brewer, Tim Gleason, Tom Gilbert, Filip Kuba, Robyn Regehr, Kyle Quincey, Brooks Orpik, etc. all players who make as much, more or less than Gorges.

Honestly the only guys on the list I'd take over Gorges for sure are Enstrom and Hedman. Maybe Erik Johnson. But Gorges is overpaid?

Even then, one simply has to look at Anton Volchenkov in New Jersey. He's a $4.25M with only one expectation: good defensive play. Gorges is younger and makes less. Volchenkov received his contract on free agency. If that doesn't tell you that Gorges is well priced, you're just ignorant.

Well Said. Gorges doesn't have a particularly generous contract but it's comparable to plenty of other shutdown defenders. Would I rather have Enstrom for that sort of money? Yeah sure, but the only way to get a bargain like that is by drafting someone and gambling on an early contract. Which I'm disappointed we didn't do for Subban. But for every Enstrom and Letang there's a Myers.

As far as Gorges himself goes...He's a safe top 4 guy. He's unexceptional, he doesn't make the players around him better, and is only a top 2 guy when next to someone as good as Subban, but he's a solid compliment.

However I don't want him to be the next captain. He deserves that "A" and is a vocal leader, but making him captain would make him more untouchable than he deserves to be. Not that you need your captain to be your best player, but look at how much harder it gets to move Gionta because of that "C". Gorges is a valuable role player, but he's not a part of the core of this team; he's not Subban or even Markov.

Gorges has been exposed a bit by the more aggressive style the team plays this year, that leads to more openings and less opportunity to sit back and block shots. He hasn't been bad by any means; he's certainly been better than Boullion and Emelin overall, but if anything he's closer to Emelin than Subban. He's had some games where he just can't keep up.

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03-27-2013, 06:34 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well Said. Gorges doesn't have a particularly generous contract but it's comparable to plenty of other shutdown defenders. Would I rather have Enstrom for that sort of money? Yeah sure, but the only way to get a bargain like that is by drafting someone and gambling on an early contract. Which I'm disappointed we didn't do for Subban. But for every Enstrom and Letang there's a Myers.

As far as Gorges himself goes...He's a safe top 4 guy. He's unexceptional, he doesn't make the players around him better, and is only a top 2 guy when next to someone as good as Subban, but he's a solid compliment.

However I don't want him to be the next captain. He deserves that "A" and is a vocal leader, but making him captain would make him more untouchable than he deserves to be. Not that you need your captain to be your best player, but look at how much harder it gets to move Gionta because of that "C". Gorges is a valuable role player, but he's not a part of the core of this team; he's not Subban or even Markov.

Gorges has been exposed a bit by the more aggressive style the team plays this year, that leads to more openings and less opportunity to sit back and block shots. He hasn't been bad by any means; he's certainly been better than Boullion and Emelin overall, but if anything he's closer to Emelin than Subban. He's had some games where he just can't keep up.
I disagree.

But even if he has been, he makes 2-3 times their salary...the difference just isn't worth it.

Give me another Emelin over Gorges, and make 1-2 other decisions like that and you can get an actual impact player up front that we desperately need. And we wouldn't be hurting that bad on D from the downgrade.

Someone hit the nail on the head when he said he had no problem spending 6M-7M cap hit on a star player but had a problem with paying guys like Gio and Cammy 5M-6M.

That's the truth. These non exceptional guys don't bring something irreplaceable. You can find guys who do the same job for a fraction of the price. You just need a GM who knows who to go for. Guys like Simmonds, Ryder, etc.

Gotta save cap space to go for the big fishes. The Charas, Niedermayers, Suter, etc. Players who are difficult to find and don't often end up on the free agent market.

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03-27-2013, 08:06 PM
  #88
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Anyone playing the Josh Gorges Drinking Game tonight against Boston?

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03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
  #89
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Yep. I am. Who denies what I said after this game ?

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03-27-2013, 09:56 PM
  #90
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Gorges has been good tonight. He's having an off year, but he's still one of our good dmen. Let's not forget he had been playing like a legit #2 dman for the last few seasons.

When Diaz comes back, and we ship Emelin back to wherever that mother ****er comes from, our defense will be fine.

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03-27-2013, 11:26 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Gorges has been good tonight. He's having an off year, but he's still one of our good dmen. Let's not forget he had been playing like a legit #2 dman for the last few seasons.

When Diaz comes back, and we ship Emelin back to wherever that mother ****er comes from, our defense will be fine.
Of course you're gonna jump on the occasion to bash Emelin after his first bad game in like a month

As for Gorges, the contract is fine. I still think he's a player that eventually can be replaced from within because he doesn't bring one amazing quality that no other D or prospect we have possesses. Someone on a rookie or a cheaper contract could then do roughly the same job and we could benefit from Gorges reputation around the league to get good value for him.

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03-28-2013, 05:18 AM
  #92
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Gorges is completely meh to me. I don't think I'd miss him if he left tomorrow

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03-28-2013, 07:49 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I disagree.

But even if he has been, he makes 2-3 times their salary...the difference just isn't worth it.

Give me another Emelin over Gorges, and make 1-2 other decisions like that and you can get an actual impact player up front that we desperately need. And we wouldn't be hurting that bad on D from the downgrade.

Someone hit the nail on the head when he said he had no problem spending 6M-7M cap hit on a star player but had a problem with paying guys like Gio and Cammy 5M-6M.

That's the truth. These non exceptional guys don't bring something irreplaceable. You can find guys who do the same job for a fraction of the price. You just need a GM who knows who to go for. Guys like Simmonds, Ryder, etc.

Gotta save cap space to go for the big fishes. The Charas, Niedermayers, Suter, etc. Players who are difficult to find and don't often end up on the free agent market.
This is my point. I don't care how much shut down D's make. He is not a shutdown D, nor does he bring a physical element like other sutdown D's. He can't clear the net either. There are just too many flaws for me to want to pay him 4M for 6 years. He is easily replaceable. Subban is not. Price is not. Pleks is not. Markov is not. See where I'm going here?

4M 6 years. I wonder what PK will ask for.

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03-28-2013, 02:57 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I didn't like the deal when it was signed. I'm not huge on him. I find he looks awful on most nights and has about as much offensive instincts as the old Harold Snepsts had.
Were you scouting for the Habs in the 90s? Do you understand what "most nights" means?

habsfanatic... More like fanaticallydelusionalhabsfan

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03-28-2013, 03:17 PM
  #95
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This is my point. I don't care how much shut down D's make. He is not a shutdown D, nor does he bring a physical element like other sutdown D's. He can't clear the net either. There are just too many flaws for me to want to pay him 4M for 6 years. He is easily replaceable. Subban is not. Price is not. Pleks is not. Markov is not. See where I'm going here?

4M 6 years. I wonder what PK will ask for.
Not all shutdown d-men are big hitters, in fact very few are. Most of the best ones are very good shot blockers, good at positionning and use of their stick.

If he was that easy to replace they would have gotten another one like him, because we could use another.

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03-28-2013, 07:06 PM
  #96
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This is my point. I don't care how much shut down D's make. He is not a shutdown D, nor does he bring a physical element like other sutdown D's. He can't clear the net either. There are just too many flaws for me to want to pay him 4M for 6 years. He is easily replaceable. Subban is not. Price is not. Pleks is not. Markov is not. See where I'm going here?

4M 6 years. I wonder what PK will ask for.
good post

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03-28-2013, 07:28 PM
  #97
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Not all shutdown d-men are big hitters, in fact very few are. Most of the best ones are very good shot blockers, good at positionning and use of their stick.

If he was that easy to replace they would have gotten another one like him, because we could use another.
I shouldn't have said all shutdown D's are big hitters. I guess what I mean is...typically shut down D's can bring other elements. Gorges doesn't bring a physical element at all. He can't clear the net. So he shot blocks, is a warrior and a leader. That's really worth $4M over 6 years? Really? Then I wonder what PK is worth.

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03-28-2013, 07:43 PM
  #98
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I could forgive how horrible Gorges has been this year if he didn't open his mouth during the lock out and Subban contract dispute.

Basically done with him until he figures out he's not the captain of this team and just plays his game.

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03-28-2013, 07:45 PM
  #99
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I could forgive how horrible Gorges has been this year if he didn't open his mouth during the lock out and Subban contract dispute.

Basically done with him until he figures out he's not the captain of this team and just plays his game.
Yea. That was pretty stupid.

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04-15-2013, 09:11 PM
  #100
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It's pretty bad.

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