HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Eugene Melnyk says he'll prove Cooke on Karlsson was intentional

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-27-2013, 08:57 PM
  #251
Atomos2
BLUE NOISE
 
Atomos2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,831
vCash: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
I don't want him to though.
Let him remain in Neverland

Atomos2 is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #252
Marvelous Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Let him remain in Neverland
Agh, a Leafs fan.

I guess you like your owners quiet and conservative. Makes sense.

I, on the other hand, would rather a wingnut owner that has an incredible passion for his team.

Marvelous Manked is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 08:59 PM
  #253
Fiji Water
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 858
vCash: 500
They should have this guy come out again to center ice and read the findings in dramatic fashion:


Fiji Water is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:00 PM
  #254
jbeck5
Registered User
 
jbeck5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,116
vCash: 500
hahahaha

Melnyk's drunk. Leave him alone. lol

jbeck5 is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:01 PM
  #255
EDDIE20*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiji Water View Post
They should have this guy come out again to center ice and read the findings in dramatic fashion:

A better use of Melnyk's money would be to forensically analyze whoever came up with this guy.

EDDIE20* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:01 PM
  #256
Hurt
Registered User
 
Hurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
Agh, a Leafs fan.

I guess you like your owners quiet and conservative. Makes sense.

I, on the other hand, would rather a wingnut owner that has an incredible passion for his team.
I guess it only took Melnyk a month and a half for the gears to turn and get on the ball eh?

__________________
Shoot me a PM with your concerns. Also, come visit us in the Science Forum!
Hurt is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:01 PM
  #257
inthewings
Registered User
 
inthewings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiji Water View Post
They should have this guy come out again to center ice and read the findings in dramatic fashion:

Kick a city while its down That video should just cease to exist.

inthewings is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:01 PM
  #258
Melnyks Mirage
We're doomed.
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cumberland
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,259
vCash: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Good on Melnyk. I'm not convinced Cooke did it intentionally, but why people think that it's impossible to develop a scientifically supportable argument that the amount of force exerted by Cooke was stronger, or at a differnet angle, than someone simply falling would have likely exerted is beyond me.

Oh and he's a billionaire. Pretty sure he can afford the best analysis.

But yeah, let's instead talk about how "embarrassing" it is for an NHL owner to stand up and do all he can to look into whether or not the best player the franchise has ever seen was intentionally injured.

Yeah. Total embarrassment. Wish we had an owner who didn't give a **** about our team at all and just sat back and collected a paycheck.
Remember what happened with Chara's hit on Pacioretty? They called in the cops, thought it was a borderline assault. They were going to press charges. Montréal police couldn't lay charges because...because...because...they could not prove intent on the part of Chara and the two teams are playing each other right now (good game by the way) and there skates the #33 behemoth.

So what are the scientists and investigators going to do?

"Mr. Cooke, did you intentionally stomp on Mr. Karlsson's ankle with the aim of injuring him or harming his career?"

Matt Cooke: "No sir, we went into the corner, my balance was off and that skate fell down, sadly at the wrong place."

"Thank you Mr. Cooke. Bring in next witness, (Senator or Penguin on the ice)."

All this is doing is turning our team, our now stable and winning team into a circus. Again. The NHL fined Melnyk for his comments on the baseball lockout making him less of a fan, they fined the Red Wings rep for calling players catttle. I would not be surprised if they fined Melnyk for detracting from the on-ice product. Seriously, it's hockey. Really unfortunate stuff happens all the time. It's time for Melnyk to let go.

And by the way, if Karlsson is back in the playoffs, or next year at 100% then Melnyk is going to look even more bushleague than he does now.
Please Eugene, STOP being a distraction, just be a fan in your own way and don't spout off to the media about anything you aren't 100% sure of.


Last edited by Melnyks Mirage: 03-27-2013 at 09:13 PM.
Melnyks Mirage is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:02 PM
  #259
Still miss Vermette
Registered User
 
Still miss Vermette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 675
vCash: 500
God damnit Eugene, you crazy *******...

Still miss Vermette is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:02 PM
  #260
Marvelous Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
I guess it only took Melnyk a month and a half for the gears to turn and get on the ball eh?
While I don't really know what you're saying, I interpreted like you're saying it took him too long to get his craziness going, to which my answer is nah he's crazy all the time, he's just going crazy, he's just extra crazy right now"

EDIT: Oh I get what you're saying now. He's in Barbados, he just heard about the Karlsson incident Saturday.

Marvelous Manked is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:04 PM
  #261
Hurt
Registered User
 
Hurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
While I don't really know what you're saying, I interpreted like you're saying it took him too long to get his craziness going, to which my answer is nah he's crazy all the time, he's just going crazy, he's just extra crazy right now"
Yes it did take him a month and a half. I'm curious what made him get out of bed and say "Rawr rawr Matt Cooke bad man I'm going to get him!"

Hurt is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:04 PM
  #262
ryanwb
Registered User
 
ryanwb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Not prove, but you could develop a scientifically backed argument that it is extremely likely that he did it intentionally.

Just as you can't prove to me that Crosby is a better hockey player than I am, but you can certainly develop a scientifically backed argument that it is extremely like that he is.
Right, and you say you are a finance major? I happen to be a science major so I can agree with your statement, and that happens to be fundamental crux upon which science has been founded: nothing can ever be proven, but rather can only be disproven. It's the reason we still call things like evolution theories. Data merely supports it, but we can never prove that it is indeed true.

The problem with this investigation is that it relies on certain assumptions of a person's frame/state of mind. You can't prove that with physics alone, and even a suggestion of probable intent after this study is rather unlikely.

ryanwb is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:05 PM
  #263
Marvelous Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
Yes it did take him a month and a half. I'm curious what made him get out of bed and say "Rawr rawr Matt Cooke bad man I'm going to get him!"
See my edit.

Marvelous Manked is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:08 PM
  #264
Stanley Foobrick
Clockwork Blue
 
Stanley Foobrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fooville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
It's completely different. You're suggesting a case where it was a red light: he either saw it or he didn't.

In this case, at that angle, with that force, if it was almost impossible for him to have administered that much force unintentionally, (which they CAN show) then that's an entirely different story.

If you insist on using your analogy, it would be more like you running the red light, saying you didn't see it was a red light, but you noticed there was a crack on the red light bulb. They could in that case develop an argument that they are virtually certain that if you saw the crack in the bulb, you probably also realized it was red. In other words, using the facts of the incident to show intent.



But there is, I already mentioned it earlier and I'm a finance major not a scientist.

If the researchers can show that a player of that size, on that angle, would at a 99% confidence interval exercise between X and Y Newtons of force in order to break their fall in that position, and they can also show that Z (where Z > X,Y) Newtons of force were exercised, that would suggest that Cooke administered an amount of force that was unjustified by simply trying to break his fall.

This would be evidence to suggest that he administered additional force outside of what a normal human would do to break a similar fall from a similar angle, thus suggesting intent.

Combine that with expert testimony, and that's a scientifically based argument to suggest intent.
Suggest intent...... hell you don't need to spend a dime to suggest intent. I think plenty of people have already done that free of charge in this thread alone.

Even if you could prove his leg didn't take the most common trajectory that would be expected from that contact you can't say that is proof of intent.

Or at least proof that would sway the opinions of anyone that mattered..... the guys at the NHL.

If Larry needs to spend a bunch of money to make himself feel good in the fact that he knows the truth well good for him, burn away.

However if Larry also wanted proof the sky was redish orange with streaks of yellow and dancing blue marshmallow stars every second Thursday of May the year after a leap year....... well I suspect he could pay experts enough to tell him that too.

Stanley Foobrick is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:08 PM
  #265
Hurt
Registered User
 
Hurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
See my edit.
I've been to Barbados. I can confirm they have phones and internet there. Kind of.

Anyways, it seems odd and I don't really expect this to go anywhere but his head's in the right place albeit odd timing wise.

Hurt is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:08 PM
  #266
EDDIE20*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
The problem with this investigation is that it relies on certain assumptions of a person's frame/state of mind. You can't prove that with physics alone, and even a suggestion of probable intent after this study is rather unlikely.
I work in law and can tell you that a psychological assessment will be needed in order to determine Cooke's state of mind. The problem is that Cooke is not obligated to take part in any of this.

EDDIE20* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:10 PM
  #267
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,275
vCash: 500
Besides the fact that Melnyk is going to try and prove what Cooke did was intentional, he also said again how Cooke shouldn't be in the NHL and etc. Is it just me but shouldn't Bettman tell him to stop making comments like that about a player from another team or maybe give him a fine? Also what about Marrio Lemieux filling a complaint with the NHL over those comments, could that be done?

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:12 PM
  #268
inthewings
Registered User
 
inthewings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
I kind of want Cooke to sue Melnyk for libel and win

inthewings is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:12 PM
  #269
EDDIE20*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Besides the fact that Melnyk is going to try and prove what Cooke did was intentional, he also said again how Cooke shouldn't be in the NHL and etc. Is it just me but shouldn't Bettman tell him to stop making comments like that about a player from another team or maybe give him a fine? Also what about Marrio Lemieux filling a complaint with the NHL over those comments, could that be done?
God knows Bettman has fined people for saying a hell of a lot less than this. A coach can be fined for criticizing the refs. This whole Melnyk thing is way different.

EDDIE20* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:12 PM
  #270
Sureves
Registered User
 
Sureves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 7,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
Right, and you say you are a finance major? I happen to be a science major so I can agree with your statement, and that happens to be fundamental crux upon which science has been founded: nothing can ever be proven, but rather can only be disproven. It's the reason we still call things like evolution theories. Data merely supports it, but we can never prove that it is indeed true.

The problem with this investigation is that it relies on certain assumptions of a person's frame/state of mind. You can't prove that with physics alone, and even a suggestion of probable intent after this study is rather unlikely.
Probable intent may or may not be supportable after the study, sure, but I think it's likely that they will be able to provide strong evidence that a normal person of that size and weight would not have braced their fall at a force level sufficient enough to sever the Achillies tendon that deeply.

That's about as far as the "proof" would go to suggesting Matt Cooke did it intentionally. From there it would be a mix of video footage, expert testimony, and an analysis of his prior history to support the argument.

Again, proving is out of the question - there's no debate there; but that doesn't mean we should ridicule him for initiating a research study to provide evidence that it wasn't an accident.

Just as we shouldn't discount evolution just because we can't prove it, we shouldn't just let this go uninvestigated because we can't prove it.

And again I'll reiterate here because I know HF loves quoting out of context: I personally don't think he did it intentionally.

EDIT: Anyways, off to my beerleague playoff game tonight, I'll try not to sever any tendons!

Sureves is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:12 PM
  #271
Marvelous Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
I've been to Barbados. I can confirm they have phones and internet there. Kind of.

Anyways, it seems odd and I don't really expect this to go anywhere but his head's in the right place albeit odd timing wise.


I was joking.

Eugene's just crazy. He's one of those people that is sure of what he believes in and after a month and a half of everyone including his own GM saying it wasn't intentional that he cut his leg open, he wants to desperately prove everyone wrong.

Marvelous Manked is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:13 PM
  #272
ryanwb
Registered User
 
ryanwb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 863
vCash: 500
On the next episode of Mythbusters...

ryanwb is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:13 PM
  #273
Stanley Foobrick
Clockwork Blue
 
Stanley Foobrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fooville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
I kind of want Cooke to sue Melnyk for libel and win
Sean Avery did that with that media guy in Toronto.

Stanley Foobrick is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:16 PM
  #274
Mondello
Makin' the scene...
 
Mondello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PGH, PA
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Eugene really needs to give it a rest. The guy is going to become a laughing stock for the league.
Too late.

Mondello is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 09:17 PM
  #275
EDDIE20*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,736
vCash: 500
Whatever you say.

Let's see how far the investigation gets when they contact Cooke and try to ask him questions. It'll end right there. What are Melnyk's investigators gonna investigate? Hockey tapes? Because that's all they've got right now.


Last edited by Hurt: 03-27-2013 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Edited out quote.
EDDIE20* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.