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Old
03-27-2013, 08:37 PM
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogi1Kenobi View Post
Pirri is in every Chicago proposal. Either Hawks fans hate him or he can't cut it in the NHL. I'll go with the latter. The Blackhawks need a #2 center so badly that they never bothered to even call up Pirri for a test run. That tells me he sucks and make it in the NHL.

A big pass on Pirri. If I'm giving up Roy to a division rival, I hope Joe asks for Mark McNeill. After the deal he pulled off to acquire J. Morrow, the price for rentals is pretty high. Furthermore, Chicago needs a #2 badly.
Coach Q doesn't like him and he is a Tallon prospect

Thus why he hasn't gotten shot in Chicago and why he is considered trade chip

Pirri wont get chance as long as Q is coach. Q wants kid to back check harder/etc.. Kid is a offensive guy who's D game is not a strength at this point

Q prefers Kruger because of his D/PK ability thus why Kruger surpassed Pirri.. Shaw passed him on depth chart simply because he is pesky/gritty player and was willing to switch to C (Been Hawks 3rd line C all year)

If Pirri had Kruger's D game he would be on Hawks ,, But when you cant backcheck well or PK and aren't a star player (Ala Kane) you aren't getting any slack from Q

Its admirable that Q wants that type of player but at same time not all 21 yr old players are capable of giving you top notch D.. Best thing for Hawks would have been to put Sharp/Hossa on line with Pirri and let kid learn from his mistakes and have 2 vets to cover some of his D issues

Instead he rots in Rockford not getting a chance no matter how well he plays for Hogs

As for Bowman part ,, He seems unwilling to move his own prospects and values his guys alot.. Pirri being a Tallon pick makes most sense to be a trade chip


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 03-27-2013 at 08:42 PM.
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Old
03-27-2013, 08:42 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I hate this mentality.

Chicago has the best record in the league and management has said they're looking more for a checking line type of center. The 2nd line center stuff is coming from media speculation.

Pirri is 21 (going on 22) and can't slot into the #2 center role for a Cup contender? Wow, he must be ****.
It's fairly obvious Bolland isn't fitting in well as their #2, and he needs to be back down as their #3. They don't need another guy like Bozak or simply for comparison's sake, Eakin, they need a legit #2A center. If their management has said that, I've never seen it, nor does it really make sense to me, personally.

It's not so much the fact that he can't, but more the fact that he hasn't even been given the chance. That indicates one of two things - he's simply not good enough to even deserve a chance, or management just doesn't like him. Both make sense though, so it's tough to tell, but I do think it's more that he's simply not good enough to merit their attention and get a chance.

And you're right, he's almost 22 and still hasn't even gotten a shot at an NHL spot. And before you toss out the "he could be a late bloomer", that excuse won't hold. For every Jamie Benn, there are 10 Wandells out there who don't become anything.

We can get a better, and possibly younger center for Roy. None of Chicago's centers stand out to me, not just Pirri.

Gaunce and Schroeder are two guys I do want, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
So what you're saying is that you would rather have Martin Hanzal than Mike Ribeiro
That's actually a lot closer than you'd think. And Chicago would be ridiculously lucky to have found a guy who turns into something like Hanzal that low in even the 1st round.

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03-27-2013, 08:44 PM
  #503
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I would point out despite how well Jeremy Morin is playing he also got passed up by Saad in Hawks organization

Q wants NHL ready defensive players

That is why Shaw/Kruger/Saad have made leap to NHL so quick as prospects.. All 3 had NHL caliber defensive games to slot into whatever role Q wanted for them

Guys like Morin/Pirri dont have the D that fits Q's system. Its really frustrating to see guys playing so well in AHL that likely wont get fair shot with Hawks

Morin hopefully is on Hawks next year since Stalberg/Bickell will be leaving as UFA's

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Old
03-27-2013, 08:46 PM
  #504
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Beach and Olsen suck though ,, If Hawk fans try to give you them (I usually throw them in as filler on trades) that is because they do suck

Beach is absolute bust and Olsen is nothing more then #5/6/7 type dman in NHL because he sucks at skating

Both guys Tallon mistakes in 1st round

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03-27-2013, 08:49 PM
  #505
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We'll take Olsen for Glennie.

Not even kidding.

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03-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
It's fairly obvious Bolland isn't fitting in well as their #2, and he needs to be back down as their #3. They don't need another guy like Bozak or simply for comparison's sake, Eakin, they need a legit #2A center. If their management has said that, I've never seen it, nor does it really make sense to me, personally.

It's not so much the fact that he can't, but more the fact that he hasn't even been given the chance. That indicates one of two things - he's simply not good enough to even deserve a chance, or management just doesn't like him. Both make sense though, so it's tough to tell, but I do think it's more that he's simply not good enough to merit their attention and get a chance.

And you're right, he's almost 22 and still hasn't even gotten a shot at an NHL spot. And before you toss out the "he could be a late bloomer", that excuse won't hold. For every Jamie Benn, there are 10 Wandells out there who don't become anything.

We can get a better, and possibly younger center for Roy. None of Chicago's centers stand out to me, not just Pirri.

Gaunce and Schroeder are two guys I do want, though.

22 is not a late bloomer. It just isn't. Especially not when you're talking about an actually good team that has recently won a Cup and maintains most of the core that did so. 21-22 is exactly the age we should be looking at; he's spent three productive seasons in the AHL and is ready to get a shot at contributing in the NHL on a mediocre team (us).

And I couldn't care less what fans think Chicago needs. Bowman said over a month ago that he was looking for a checking center, someone that adds grit and veteran experience to the lineup heading into the playoffs. Whether you or other fans think Bolland isn't a capable 2nd line center is beside the point. The person who is calling the shots publicly said that he was in the market for a 3-4th line center. Now, it's possible he was not being completely honest but we can only go by what he said.

We know Eakin has the ability to play a checking role in the NHL. If he gets pushed down the depth chart and remains a 3rd line center then that means we have great depth. For the life of me I have no idea why you would rather have midget Jordan Schroeder who has proven nothing in the AHL or NHL, or Gaunce who is only a point per game player in one of the higher scoring junior leagues in Canada.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
That's actually a lot closer than you'd think. And Chicago would be ridiculously lucky to have found a guy who turns into something like Hanzal that low in even the 1st round.
What's closer than I'd think? Hanzal is a great player to have but if I have a chance to add a more offensive prospect, who is closer to contributing in the NHL, over a big checking line center I'm going to take the point producer every time, especially when we have a young capable 3rd line center currently on the roster.

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03-27-2013, 09:06 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
22 is not a late bloomer. It just isn't. Especially not when you're talking about an actually good team that has recently won a Cup and maintains most of the core that did so. 21-22 is exactly the age we should be looking at; he's spent three productive seasons in the AHL and is ready to get a shot at contributing in the NHL on a mediocre team (us).

And I couldn't care less what fans think Chicago needs. Bowman said over a month ago that he was looking for a checking center, someone that adds grit and veteran experience to the lineup heading into the playoffs. Whether you or other fans think Bolland isn't a capable 2nd line center is beside the point. The person who is calling the shots publicly said that he was in the market for a 3-4th line center. Now, it's possible he was not being completely honest but we can only go by what he said.

We know Eakin has the ability to play a checking role in the NHL. If he gets pushed down the depth chart and remains a 3rd line center then that means we have great depth. For the life of me I have no idea why you would rather have midget Jordan Schroeder who has proven nothing in the AHL or NHL, or Gaunce who is only a point per game player in one of the higher scoring junior leagues in Canada.


What's closer than I'd think? Hanzal is a great player to have but if I have a chance to add a more offensive prospect, who is closer to contributing in the NHL, over a big checking line center I'm going to take the point producer every time, especially when we have a young capable 3rd line center currently on the roster.
Stats aren't everything, that's fairly obvious. I've always liked Schroeder's game, and just have a good feeling about the guy. Gaunce is about the same as McNeill IMO.

Hanzal isn't a checking line center. He's a #2 center with elite defense and underrated offensive ability. I get what you're trying to say - Hanzal simply isn't a good player to use in that comparison though.

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:06 PM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
We'll take Olsen for Glennie.

Not even kidding.
How about Beach for Glennie?

Both absolute disappointments

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03-27-2013, 09:07 PM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
How about Beach for Glennie?

Both absolute disappointments
Don't see much of a reason at all to do that. Beach does nothing for us. But then again, neither does Olsen...

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03-27-2013, 09:17 PM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Stats aren't everything, that's fairly obvious. I've always liked Schroeder's game, and just have a good feeling about the guy. Gaunce is about the same as McNeill IMO.

Hanzal isn't a checking line center. He's a #2 center with elite defense and underrated offensive ability. I get what you're trying to say - Hanzal simply isn't a good player to use in that comparison though.
Stats aren't everything but they're not meaningless. Pirri has put up points in the AHL and has gotten good reviews from his minor league coach, despite what Chicago's NHL coach feels about him. I'm not claiming he's a sure fire 60 point guy but with the young players and prospects we currently have I would rather trade Roy for a higher upside guy with more risk than a lower risk player with less upside.

Hanzal's highest output (yes I'm using stats again) is 35 points, and that was his rookie season. He's a 2nd line center in Phoenix, a team that without Tippett's coaching style wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs most years. On a team with a different style of play that has high aspirations I would argue that Hanzal is a tweener 2-3 line center, leaning toward 3rd.

The comparison is valid.

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03-27-2013, 09:18 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Don't see much of a reason at all to do that. Beach does nothing for us. But then again, neither does Olsen...

thing is, neither does roy if he won't be around next year and we get nothing for him

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03-27-2013, 09:46 PM
  #512
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I'd take a chance on Pirri but since it seems there's an issue (either he's not good or he's frozen out and it's hard to judge that outside the Chicago organization) I'd want something more to cushion the possible blow that Pirri does in fact suck. So for me I'd do Roy for Pirri and Stephen Johns.

Small doesn't mean worthless even in the West. If the kid has the motor & the hands then you pair him up with some of our bigger wingers he'd be just fine.

Fraser-Pirri-Cole next year could work for all three if Pirri has the vision to make passes for those two and they can certainly win a puck battle in the corner or find an open spot on the ice to shoot from.

I'm with piqued on this one, give me the potential Ribiero over the potential Hanzel. A point producer who can take pressure off of Benn and company is one of the reasons why we can role 3 lines that have a legit opportunity to score. This organization needs to take a chance on talent because grit and hustle only take you so far.

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03-27-2013, 09:59 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I'd take a chance on Pirri but since it seems there's an issue (either he's not good or he's frozen out and it's hard to judge that outside the Chicago organization) I'd want something more to cushion the possible blow that Pirri does in fact suck. So for me I'd do Roy for Pirri and Stephen Johns.

Small doesn't mean worthless even in the West. If the kid has the motor & the hands then you pair him up with some of our bigger wingers he'd be just fine.

Fraser-Pirri-Cole next year could work for all three if Pirri has the vision to make passes for those two and they can certainly win a puck battle in the corner or find an open spot on the ice to shoot from.

I'm with piqued on this one, give me the potential Ribiero over the potential Hanzel. A point producer who can take pressure off of Benn and company is one of the reasons why we can role 3 lines that have a legit opportunity to score. This organization needs to take a chance on talent because grit and hustle only take you so far.
I'm not piqued but thanks

The bolded is really my entire point. We need talent down the middle, not just big bodies.

Asking for two prospects is greedy though. You're not going to get both, I would think if you get Pirri the best we can hope for is a pick along with him.

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03-27-2013, 10:17 PM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Stats aren't everything but they're not meaningless. Pirri has put up points in the AHL and has gotten good reviews from his minor league coach, despite what Chicago's NHL coach feels about him. I'm not claiming he's a sure fire 60 point guy but with the young players and prospects we currently have I would rather trade Roy for a higher upside guy with more risk than a lower risk player with less upside.

Hanzal's highest output (yes I'm using stats again) is 35 points, and that was his rookie season. He's a 2nd line center in Phoenix, a team that without Tippett's coaching style wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs most years. On a team with a different style of play that has high aspirations I would argue that Hanzal is a tweener 2-3 line center, leaning toward 3rd.

The comparison is valid.
Anyone who's actually watched him consistently (Boedker, as well) will tell you he's more than a checking line center. Both are quite talented offensively, and they're finally starting to really show that this year.

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03-27-2013, 10:22 PM
  #515
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Seen Pirri quite a bit in the AHL, but I'm just not sold on the guy. Would he look good in Dallas? Absolutely, but I'd rather trade with Vancouver.

Just some gut feeling about Pirri doesn't set well with me.

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03-27-2013, 10:35 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Anyone who's actually watched him consistently (Boedker, as well) will tell you he's more than a checking line center. Both are quite talented offensively, and they're finally starting to really show that this year.
I've watched him play quite a bit over the years, though I haven't seen him much this year. Still, it's great to be talented offensively but it's another thing to use that talent to score goals. I feel you have too narrow (and low) of a view of what a checking line center is. I also think you have quite low expectations about what a second line center should produce offensively.

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03-28-2013, 12:34 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I'm not piqued but thanks

The bolded is really my entire point. We need talent down the middle, not just big bodies.

Asking for two prospects is greedy though. You're not going to get both, I would think if you get Pirri the best we can hope for is a pick along with him.
Yeah sorry. Been used to agreeing with piqued...

Really depends on what Chicago thinks of Pirri and Johns, besides without a high pick I think another prospect has to be on the table.

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03-28-2013, 01:12 AM
  #518
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Well now things get interesting.

The Stars basically have the two best forward trade pieces remaining right? Assuming Ribs isn't moved. Chicago, Vancouver, Boston, all have to counter Pittsburgh right?

I know they want to extend Jagr but if Boston feels they have to make a move the return could be amazing. They can always add an extra $250k this summer to entice Jagr to return next year.

******* sell, Joe sell!

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03-28-2013, 01:54 AM
  #519
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Well now things get interesting.

The Stars basically have the two best forward trade pieces remaining right? Assuming Ribs isn't moved. Chicago, Vancouver, Boston, all have to counter Pittsburgh right?

I know they want to extend Jagr but if Boston feels they have to make a move the return could be amazing. They can always add an extra $250k this summer to entice Jagr to return next year.

******* sell, Joe sell!
We may end up with both proposed packages for Brenden. JoMo and Khoklachev+. That would be incredibly tempting even if Jagr is, well, Jagr.

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03-28-2013, 02:35 AM
  #520
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Yeah Boston has missed out on both Morrow and Iginla now. Nieuwendyk has to forget about the rest of this season, and be willing to move Jagr. Can always try to sign him back in the summer.

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03-28-2013, 03:23 AM
  #521
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Well that was jolting to wake up to. Iginla traded to Boston ... and then Pittsburgh according to my Twitter timeline. Good job Aaron Ward ... lol.

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03-28-2013, 03:32 AM
  #522
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If GMJN doesn't move Jagr in this market he is a ****ing moron. The same goes for Robidas and Roy. We have several pieces other teams want. Robidas in particular with his recent play, additional year on his contract, and reputation could get a good deal.

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03-28-2013, 07:04 AM
  #523
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Yeah we can really start a rebuild with the pieces we can trade. Somehow i can't help to think Joe will **** it up by not selling.

Also Feaster is such a idiot. I bet we could get J.Bow for Glennie, Sneep and our other 3rd.


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03-28-2013, 08:22 AM
  #524
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As much as I love Jagr, if we could get a similar package from Boston that we got for Morrow, I'd be giddy.

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03-28-2013, 08:31 AM
  #525
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My guess is it would probably be Koko and a 2nd.

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