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Old
03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HedMonster 77 View Post
if we get Miller we are trading one of other goalie prospects for sure, R.Helenius the most likely.
As long as it isn't Vasilevski, I really don't care which goalie prospect we are giving away

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03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HedMonster 77 View Post
Garon, J.Brown,2nd round pick, R.Helenius and another 2nd rounder or B.Pouliot

i'm not goodwith this trade and value thing so do bash me
I'd be ok with Brown, Helenius and a 2nd for Miller. I could live with that

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Might have to throw in a center like Phillip-Michael Devos, but other than that I love it!
Nah, if we're adding him just do a 1-for-1 trade. Devos for Miller straight up

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03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
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I'd be ok with Brown, Helenius and a 2nd for Miller. I could live with that
imagine Buffalo took that deal

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03-27-2013, 09:46 PM
  #54
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Some basic numbers from this season.

Ryan Miller
11-14-4 (29 games played)
2.88 GAA (912 shots against)
.911 Sv% (831 saves)

Cap Hit: 6.250M
Under contract: thru 2013-2014 season (Age 33-34) (UFA)

Anders Lindback
10-7-1 (21 games played)
2.88 GAA (559 shots against)
.903 Sv% (505 saves)

Cap Hit: 1.800M
Under contract: thru 2013-2014 season (Age 25-26) (RFA)

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:46 PM
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i meant don't bash me...sorry for the mistake
so i just checked Janus's stats and he has a 0.928 SVS% and around 2.15 GAA thats in the KHL how good is that?

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03-27-2013, 09:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
...

I would loathe seeing us finish 10th or 11th again this year and miss out on an elite prospect in the top 3. However, I love seeing us win too so I'm torn. Hopefully Miller would be able to provide us the stability we need in net, but he hasn't made a difference in Buffalo with their defence, so I can't see him doing much better in Tampa (unless the change of scenery was all he needed).

Trading Connolly would be a huge risk since he's developing very nicely in the AHL right now and would look great in our top 6 (especially once St.Louis eventually retires). I would prefer to package two offensive prospects like Namestnikov and Kucherov, opposed to giving up a more sure thing in Connoly.
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How? I'd take proven ppg AHL production over a 63 pt season in the weak QJMHL league any day. Connolly was a better player than Kucherov in junior and accumulated better stats in a tougher and more physical league.


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03-27-2013, 09:53 PM
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Excuse me if I dont think highly of a scouting report from the same guy who praises Brian Lee and thinks hes a top 4 defenseman.
I never said he was a top 4 but a decent bottom 6.
Your also the guy who says an overage, undersized player im the high scoring Q is better than a proven scorer in every level he's played.
Connolly would've been a top 3 pick if he was healthy his draft year, he's finally fully healthy and playing like the top pick he was.
Either way I don't think Miller is going to help us make the playoffs this year. Might as well wait, till the off season when the price goes down.

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03-27-2013, 09:58 PM
  #58
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Im sorry, but this would be a total mistake for us. It would look sexy at first, but adding ANOTHER goaltender isnt going to help us at all long run. All it shows is that we have no faith in Lindback, which is a shame considering the fact he is so young. giving up on him one year in would be slightly ridiculous.

I dont think Miller would help us at all. Our team has glaring holes in its defensive play, and I dont think any goalie would be able to fill them consistently. Theres a reason guys like Tuuka Rask and Corey Price look so good so quickly. They have a solid as hell defense standing in front of them.

If we do this... I can only hope its so he can play stop-gap until his contract expires and he can help develop Lindy some. Who knows...

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03-27-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cigar City View Post
Elite prospects being in the QMJHL does not meant the league itself is "strong". The league has always been an offensively minded league and the quality is a step behind that of the OHL and WHL. This also doesn't imply that the QMJHL is not capable of producing a great team or two (re: Saint John's when they had Huberdeau, Despres, Phillips, Beaulieu etc,), but that the overall quality throughout the entire league is just not as good as the other two leagues.

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03-27-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
I never said he was a top 4 but a decent bottom 6.
Your also the guy who says an overage, undersized player im the high scoring Q is better than a proven scorer in every level he's played.
Connolly would've been a top 3 pick if he was healthy his draft year, he's finally fully healthy and playing like the top pick he was.
Either way I don't think Miller is going to help us make the playoffs this year. Might as well wait, till the off season when the price goes down.
This. He's clearly the best prospect in our system and it'd be foolish to trade him for a short-term solution in net.

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03-27-2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Elite prospects being in the QMJHL does not meant the league itself is "strong". The league has always been an offensively minded league and the quality is a step behind that of the OHL and WHL. This also doesn't imply that the QMJHL is not capable of producing a great team or two (re: Saint John's when they had Huberdeau, Despres, Phillips, Beaulieu etc,), but that the overall quality throughout the entire league is just not as good as the other two leagues.
Therefore, 2 out of your 3 Elites may not be Elite after all........


EDIT: Pardon my bias. Former Maineiacs STH...

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03-27-2013, 10:12 PM
  #62
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I was gonna let it go. But yeah.

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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
I never said he was a top 4 but a decent bottom 6.
Your also the guy who says an overage, undersized player im the high scoring Q is better than a proven scorer in every level he's played.
Connolly would've been a top 3 pick if he was healthy his draft year, he's finally fully healthy and playing like the top pick he was.
Either way I don't think Miller is going to help us make the playoffs this year. Might as well wait, till the off season when the price goes down.
I am that guy. And in 2-3 years, Ill be digging this post up. Guaranteed.

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This. He's clearly the best prospect in our system and it'd be foolish to trade him for a short-term solution in net.
Define best prospect. "Best" meaning most NHL ready that will have an impact? Then yes I agree with you. "Best" meaning most potential to be a superstar in the NHL? Well that would be Kucherov.

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03-27-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cigar City View Post
Therefore, 2 out of your 3 Elites may not be Elite after all........


EDIT: Pardon my bias. Former Maineiacs STH...
That's not what I was implying. The league itself is still capable of producing some great offensive talents. Just that it's more difficult to replicate Connolly's numbers in the WHL than it is to replicate what Kucherov's done in the Q. Ask anyone and most if not all will tell you that the Q is behind the OHL and WHL in terms of defensive play, toughness and competition.

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03-27-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I was gonna let it go. But yeah.

Define best prospect. "Best" meaning most NHL ready that will have an impact? Then yes I agree with you. "Best" meaning most potential to be a superstar in the NHL? Well that would be Kucherov.
How can you even compare Kucherov to Connolly? He hasn't put up the same numbers in a more offensively-minded league and hasn't even played a single AHL game. Kucherov may become a skilled player in the NHL, but in no way does he exhibit "superstar" potential. Kucherov's defensive game will need a ton of work and there's no guarantee he'll be able to produce more than he has in Jr. at the pro level (he hasn't even surpassed Connolly in Jr.).

Just because "you like" Kucherov's skill set more does not correlate to him being a better prospect or him having "superstar" potential. There are tons of players with great hands and skating ability that never end up being productive players at the pro level. Connolly was a top scorer at 16, a ppg player in the AHL and is finally coming around on the injury front. Kucherov is a boom or bust prospect; I'd take a more sure thing in Connolly who projects to be a top forward over him any day.

Scouts project Connolly to be an elite forward capable of eventually putting up very good numbers in the NHL. I'll take their word over yours.

EDIT: By the way "best" prospect means most likely to make it to the NHL and have an impact there.

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03-27-2013, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
How can you even compare Kucherov to Connolly? He hasn't put up the same numbers in a more offensively-minded league and hasn't even played a single AHL game. Kucherov may become a skilled player in the NHL, but in no way does he exhibit "superstar" potential. Kucherov's defensive game will need a ton of work and there's no guarantee he'll be able to produce more than he has in Jr. at the pro level (he hasn't even surpassed Connolly in Jr.).

Just because "you like" Kucherov's skill set more does not correlate to him being a better prospect or him having "superstar" potential. There are tons of players with great hands and skating ability that never end up being productive players at the pro level. Connolly was a top scorer at 16, a ppg player in the AHL and is finally coming around on the injury front. Kucherov is a boom or bust prospect; I'd take a more sure thing in Connolly who projects to be a top forward over him any day.

Scouts project Connolly to be an elite forward capable of eventually putting up very good numbers in the NHL. I'll take their word over yours.

EDIT: By the way "best" prospect means most likely to make it to the NHL and have an impact there.
Stamkos sucks.

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03-27-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
How can you even compare Kucherov to Connolly? He hasn't put up the same numbers in a more offensively-minded league and hasn't even played a single AHL game. Kucherov may become a skilled player in the NHL, but in no way does he exhibit "superstar" potential. Kucherov's defensive game will need a ton of work and there's no guarantee he'll be able to produce more than he has in Jr. at the pro level (he hasn't even surpassed Connolly in Jr.).

Just because "you like" Kucherov's skill set more does not correlate to him being a better prospect or him having "superstar" potential. There are tons of players with great hands and skating ability that never end up being productive players at the pro level. Connolly was a top scorer at 16, a ppg in the AHL and is finally coming around on the injury front.

Scouts project Connolly to be an elite forward capable of eventually putting up very good numbers in the NHL. I'll take their word over yours.
Its funny because if you watch both of them play its pretty obvious which one has the potential to be a superstar.

Connolly will be good. Very good even. But he wont be a superstar.

Kucherov, with the right work ethic which he is getting currently, has the potential to be a superstar.

I like how you continual compare the two in their respective junior leagues. You cant really do that. Who knows if one or the other does better or worse in the others league. You just dont know that. Using it as an argument is useless at best.

Kucherov would have easily been a top 10 probably a top 5 pick in his draft if he werent Russian and everyone was scared about him coming over or not.

I also like how you seem to think all Kucherov has in his skillset is skating and hands. He is also a much better passer than Connolly, and possesses a great shot as well.

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03-27-2013, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
How can you even compare Kucherov to Connolly? He hasn't put up the same numbers in a more offensively-minded league and hasn't even played a single AHL game. Kucherov may become a skilled player in the NHL, but in no way does he exhibit "superstar" potential. Kucherov's defensive game will need a ton of work and there's no guarantee he'll be able to produce more than he has in Jr. at the pro level (he hasn't even surpassed Connolly in Jr.).

Just because "you like" Kucherov's skill set more does not correlate to him being a better prospect or him having "superstar" potential. There are tons of players with great hands and skating ability that never end up being productive players at the pro level. Connolly was a top scorer at 16, a ppg player in the AHL and is finally coming around on the injury front. Kucherov is a boom or bust prospect; I'd take a more sure thing in Connolly who projects to be a top forward over him any day.

Scouts project Connolly to be an elite forward capable of eventually putting up very good numbers in the NHL. I'll take their word over yours.

EDIT: By the way "best" prospect means most likely to make it to the NHL and have an impact there.
Connolly's best year in the Dub saw him with a 1.24PPG rate, Kucherov's currently has a PPG rate of 1.91. Kucherov has also produced more at the international stage than Connolly.

Scouts also had Kucherov pegged as a top-level offensive player in the NHL(think Semin) but teams were scared off due to the Russian Factor. If they both progress as predicted then Kucherov will be the greater offensive threat in the NHL while Connolly will most likely have the better two-way game.

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03-27-2013, 10:32 PM
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Also, if the Dub is the superior Major-Junior league why has the Q won it the past 2 years?

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03-27-2013, 10:33 PM
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Connolly's best year in the Dub saw him with a 1.24PPG rate, Kucherov's currently has a PPG rate of 1.91. Kucherov has also produced more at the international stage than Connolly.

Scouts also had Kucherov pegged as a top-level offensive player in the NHL(think Semin) but teams were scared off due to the Russian Factor. If they both progress as predicted then Kucherov will be the greater offensive threat in the NHL while Connolly will most likely have the better two-way game.
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Also, if the Dub is the superior Major-Junior league why has the Q won it the past 2 years?
Logic....Stop involving it in the conversation.

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03-27-2013, 10:39 PM
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Also, if the Dub is the superior Major-Junior league why has the Q won it the past 2 years?
Boom.


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03-27-2013, 10:43 PM
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Its funny because if you watch both of them play its pretty obvious which one has the potential to be a superstar.

Connolly will be good. Very good even. But he wont be a superstar.

Kucherov, with the right work ethic which he is getting currently, has the potential to be a superstar.

I like how you continual compare the two in their respective junior leagues. You cant really do that. Who knows if one or the other does better or worse in the others league. You just dont know that. Using it as an argument is useless at best.

Kucherov would have easily been a top 10 probably a top 5 pick in his draft if he werent Russian and everyone was scared about him coming over or not.

I also like how you seem to think all Kucherov has in his skillset is skating and hands. He is also a much better passer than Connolly, and possesses a great shot as well.
There was talk about Kucherov being a first round talent, never really a top 5 pick. He fell because of the Russian factor, but scouts did say there was considerable risk to his status as a boom or bust prospect too.

I never said ALL Kucherov had was hands and skating, YOU simply came to that conclusion on your own. I chose those two attributes when I originally described him because they stand out the most to me. I think he's an ok passer but chooses to hold onto the puck longer than he should. Connolly is also fast and has soft hands, and it's clear he's a better sniper.

You also have to consider that there are plenty of Russians that cannot adapt to "team hockey" and systems. Without being too stereotypical, they often thrive in free roles and are individualistic by nature from their early development. Playing a team game is often difficult for them and there are NUMEROUS examples of Russian players not entirely thriving in the collective team game required in the NHL (unless your name is Pavel Datsyuk, Sergei Fedorov etc.). Even top players like Ovechkin, Semin, Kovalchuk etc. have never fully fit into that team pack mentality or been able to take a team to the cup despite their abundance of talent, but have each put up great INDIVIDUAL numbers. Also, just look at the countless number of Russians that never really found any success at the NHL level, despite their gamebreaking ability (Zherdev, Berezin, Kharlamov, Filatov, Svitov, Christov, Volchkov etc.).

Either way, if I'm wrong and Kucherov becomes a top NHL player for the Lightning, I'll obviously be happy. Still, nothing suggests that he'll be more effective than Connolly will be since Kucherov's game simply is untested against better and more physical defenders and his skills may not translate to either points or success at the NHL level. It's a big mistake to fall in love with a player's skill set, when you consider that he hasn't even put up quality numbers yet. I've seen both play and I think Connolly will be the more effective NHL player.

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03-27-2013, 10:47 PM
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Also, if the Dub is the superior Major-Junior league why has the Q won it the past 2 years?
Elite prospects being in the QMJHL does not meant the league itself is "strong". The league has always been an offensively minded league and the quality is a step behind that of the OHL and WHL. This also doesn't imply that the QMJHL is not capable of producing a great team or two (re: Saint John's when they had Huberdeau, Despres, Phillips, Beaulieu etc,), but that the overall quality throughout the entire league is just not as good as the other two leagues.

That was my earlier comment, pretty much sums up your question. One could argue that the OHL and WHL beat themselves up so much in the playoffs that it becomes more difficult to perform for such a sustained period of time into the Memorial Cup. The talent is more diluted in the OHL and WHL than it is in the Q imho too.

Also, a Q team only won the Mem cup twice in the 11 years before the past 2 years.

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03-27-2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Elite prospects being in the QMJHL does not meant the league itself is "strong". The league has always been an offensively minded league and the quality is a step behind that of the OHL and WHL. This also doesn't imply that the QMJHL is not capable of producing a great team or two (re: Saint John's when they had Huberdeau, Despres, Phillips, Beaulieu etc,), but that the overall quality throughout the entire league is just not as good as the other two leagues.

That was my earlier comment, pretty much sums up your question. One could argue that the OHL and WHL beat themselves up so much in the playoffs that it becomes more difficult to perform for such a sustained period of time into the Memorial Cup. The talent is more diluted in the OHL and WHL than it is in the Q imho too.

Also, a Q team only won the Mem cup twice in the 11 years before the past 2 years.

Would have been 3, but we lost Cliche.

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03-27-2013, 10:53 PM
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Still, nothing suggests that he'll be more effective than Connolly will be since Kucherov's game simply is untested against better and more physical defenders and his skills may not translate to either points or success at the NHL level. It's a big mistake to fall in love with a player's skill set, when you consider that he hasn't even put up quality numbers yet.
Again, he has outperformed Connolly at the international level, I would consider that passing the test against better, more physical defensemen. He has also put up quality numbers, back to the 1.91PPG rate he currently holds in the Q.

As for the bit about the Q only winning 2 memorial cups in the 11 years prior to their current run, the sports world is very "What have you done for me lately". They are currently the best Major-Junior league, by standards of play, and have been so the past 2 years. If the OHL or Dub we're better than the Q then their best team should be able to beat the Q's best team. To think that the OHL and WHL teams beat each other up in the playoffs while Q teams skate through is just moronic. They're all playing for a chance at the same title and future reward, they're all leaving it out on the ice.

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03-27-2013, 10:59 PM
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Miller would be a good pickup if we could get him for cheap. He could mentor Lindback while splitting time with him, allowing Lindy to grow and be ready for full fledged #1 in two years, hopefully with Vasilevski waiting in the wings.

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