HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bouwmeester?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-27-2013, 11:36 PM
  #26
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
You lose all credibility with that statement.

And you're right. Coaches tend to play defensively irresponsible players against the opposition's best players in the toughest situations.
If you consider Bouwmeester defensively responsible because he plays in the toughest situations against the oppositions best players, then you'd have to say the same about Kronwall.

They both kill penalties, they both play against the oppositions best players and Kronwall has consistently out performed Bouwmeester.

Personally I don't think either are very good defensively but at least Kronwall is a good shot blocker and doesn't turn the puck over anywhere near as much as Bouwmeester.

FlashyG is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:36 PM
  #27
Detroit Sports*
NMC aka LOL -Jimmy H
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeghoul View Post
Did you seriously just post this?
it's a joke...

Detroit Sports* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:38 PM
  #28
Thats My Hat
Registered User
 
Thats My Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
If you're hell bent on getting Bouwmeester, assuming we get DD, you need to trade at least 1 and perhaps 2 defensemen away.

Jakub Kindl, Pulkinnen + a 2nd or 3rd

Then you still too many D. So you probably gotta dump White or CC

Kronwall Bouwmeester
Ericsson Smith
Quincey Dekeyser
Lashoff/White/Colaiacovo
I'd rather keep Kindl. Add Quincey or White to the JBo deal, and trade the other for picks. Dekeyser would also be in GR.

Kronwall Bouwmeester
Ericsson Smith
Kindl Lashoff/CC

OR

Kronwall Ericsson
Bouwmeester Smith/Kindl
Kindl/Smith Lashoff
CC

Ericsson can cover for Kronwall defensively and Smith or Kindl can cover for Bouwmeester.

Thats My Hat is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:38 PM
  #29
Detroit Sports*
NMC aka LOL -Jimmy H
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
That's pretty immature and in this day and age, inappropriate.

But back on OT - I don't disagree with that, but what we need and what we can get are two different things. Top pairing, two-way defenseman who can play 25+ minutes a night aren't available very often, just like perennial 30 goal scorers under the age of 30 aren't available very often.
it was a joke/ i think Jay Bouwmeester is the most overpaid and overrated defenseman in the NHL. Don't want him at all.

Detroit Sports* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:41 PM
  #30
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 17,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
If you're hell bent on getting Bouwmeester, assuming we get DD, you need to trade at least 1 and perhaps 2 defensemen away.

Jakub Kindl, Pulkinnen + a 2nd or 3rd

Then you still too many D. So you probably gotta dump White or CC

Kronwall Bouwmeester
Ericsson Smith
Quincey Dekeyser
Lashoff/White/Colaiacovo
I'm personally not "hell bent" on getting Bouwmeester. I just think people are underrating him and are underestimating what he'd bring to our system.

But like I said in another thread, if we're trading for Bouwmeester, we need to send salary back. The most sensible candidate would be Quincey, and I see no reason why a 27 year old Dman with another market-rate year left on his contract wouldn't have value to Calgary, especially if the rumors are true that they're looking to ship out Giordano and Babchuk.

And regardless of what anyone thinks of Quincey, Quincey brings value to the trade that likely negates the possibility of Calgary getting both a top prospect and a 1st round pick, unless Calgary adds something to their side of the deal.

detredWINgs is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:46 PM
  #31
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thats My Hat View Post
I'd rather keep Kindl. Add Quincey or White to the JBo deal, and trade the other for picks. Dekeyser would also be in GR.

Kronwall Bouwmeester
Ericsson Smith
Kindl Lashoff/CC

OR

Kronwall Ericsson
Bouwmeester Smith/Kindl
Kindl/Smith Lashoff
CC

Ericsson can cover for Kronwall defensively and Smith or Kindl can cover for Bouwmeester.
As would I. but If I'm Calgary, I want more than White or Quincey

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:46 PM
  #32
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cripl3411 View Post
Bouwmeester to DET in three team trade (involving Iginla) ?
Just reported it on the NHL-on-TSN. Bouwmeester could be heading to DET for prospects and picks.
This is nonsense. McKenzie said that it would make sense for Detroit to acquire Bouwmeester. Nowhere whatsoever did he suggest that KH had plans to do so.

Crymson is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:46 PM
  #33
Detroit Sports*
NMC aka LOL -Jimmy H
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I'm personally not "hell bent" on getting Bouwmeester. I just think people are underrating him and are underestimating what he'd bring to our system.

But like I said in another thread, if we're trading for Bouwmeester, we need to send salary back. The most sensible candidate would be Quincey, and I see no reason why a 27 year old Dman with another market-rate year left on his contract wouldn't have value to Calgary, especially if the rumors are true that they're looking to ship out Giordano and Babchuk.

And regardless of what anyone thinks of Quincey, Quincey brings value to the trade that likely negates the possibility of Calgary getting both a top prospect and a 1st round pick, unless Calgary adds something to their side of the deal.
I rather package what was suggested for Gaborik...

Detroit Sports* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:47 PM
  #34
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit Sports View Post
it was a joke/ i think Jay Bouwmeester is the most overpaid and overrated defenseman in the NHL. Don't want him at all.
So call him BlowMeester...

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:48 PM
  #35
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Look, if we didn;t have the kind of defense we have, I'd love Bouwmeester.

Bouwmeester is worth his cap hit. I like him.
Uhh, OK. Please explain to me how an under-performing, soft defenseman like Bouwmeester deserves to have the 6th-highest cap hit amongst d-men.

Yes, sixth-highest. He gets paid more than Erik Karlsson.

Crymson is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:49 PM
  #36
Mount Royal
Achtung, baby
 
Mount Royal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit Sports View Post
it was a joke/ i think Jay Bouwmeester is the most overpaid and overrated defenseman in the NHL. Don't want him at all.
Disagree completely. Bouwmeester gets so much undeserved hate at this point you can't call him overrated. Overpaid maybe...on Calgary, yeah. Depends on how he would perform here if Kenny pulls this off though. Mind you, it's all speculation...

He's good defensively, can score points and, in my opinion, fits in Detroit's two-way system far better than Calgary's mainly due to us simply having a superior coach.

I hope this move happens. He could flourish in Detroit.

Mount Royal is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:49 PM
  #37
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I'm personally not "hell bent" on getting Bouwmeester. I just think people are underrating him and are underestimating what he'd bring to our system.

But like I said in another thread, if we're trading for Bouwmeester, we need to send salary back. The most sensible candidate would be Quincey, and I see no reason why a 27 year old Dman with another market-rate year left on his contract wouldn't have value to Calgary, especially if the rumors are true that they're looking to ship out Giordano and Babchuk.

And regardless of what anyone thinks of Quincey, Quincey brings value to the trade that likely negates the possibility of Calgary getting both a top prospect and a 1st round pick, unless Calgary adds something to their side of the deal.
I've made my feelings on Bouwmeester pretty clear but if we're dealing for him Quincey would likely have to be part of the package.

Both to free up a spot for Bouwmeester to play and also for salary cap reasons.

I'm fairly certain he plays the same side of the ice as Kronwall and I doubt he bumps him from the top pair.

It wouldn't hurt to add another defenceman like Huskins or Colaiacovo to the trade either.

FlashyG is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:57 PM
  #38
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 17,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
If you consider Bouwmeester defensively responsible because he plays in the toughest situations against the oppositions best players, then you'd have to say the same about Kronwall.

They both kill penalties, they both play against the oppositions best players and Kronwall has consistently out performed Bouwmeester.

Personally I don't think either are very good defensively but at least Kronwall is a good shot blocker and doesn't turn the puck over anywhere near as much as Bouwmeester.
Bouwmeester ranks between 3rd and 5th amongst quality of competition rankings. Kronwall ranks 118th. Kronwall is our #2 PKer and plays 40 seconds fewer than our #1 PKer (Ericsson).

You're going to give the puck away when you play against that level of competition. Even still, he's only got 1 giveaway for every 33 minutes he plays.

Kronwall has 25 hits in 33 games, Bouwmeester has 31 hits in 31 games. Kronwall has 51 blocked shots in 33 games, Bouwmeester has 49 in 31 games.

detredWINgs is offline  
Old
03-27-2013, 11:59 PM
  #39
Cyborg Yzerman
Axel H (Flashy G)
 
Cyborg Yzerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nowhere Land
Country: San Marino
Posts: 6,750
vCash: 50
Jay Bouwmeester? Sure. But not for Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jarnkrok, and/or our first. Wait, we can't get him for anything less than some combination of those listed above? Fine by me. Bouwmeester is not worth any combination of those aforementioned.

If we overpay for Bouwmeester, it not only shows how questionable our pro-scouts are, but further calls into question Ken Holland's ability to build this team.

Cyborg Yzerman is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:01 AM
  #40
Adityase
Registered User
 
Adityase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Troy, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 1,409
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Adityase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
This is nonsense. McKenzie said that it would make sense for Detroit to acquire Bouwmeester. Nowhere whatsoever did he suggest that KH had plans to do so.
This is why I think Robyn Regher would make more sense to support Kronner on the first line, bump Ericsson back to the second line and though we don't have a true #1, our D feels more balanced. I think Ericsson would support Kindl as his offensive confidence flourishes and Lashoff supports Smith as he explores his offense.

Plus some combo of White (who I think is more versatile than he gets credit for), Quincey, Cola, and Huskins...

I think a stay at home first liner makes more sense.

Adityase is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:03 AM
  #41
Syckle78
Registered User
 
Syckle78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Redford, MI
Country: Belgium
Posts: 6,595
vCash: 500
Any chance we can get Hudler back in the deal, please?

Syckle78 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:12 AM
  #42
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Bouwmeester ranks between 3rd and 5th amongst quality of competition rankings. Kronwall ranks 118th. Kronwall is our #2 PKer and plays 40 seconds fewer than our #1 PKer (Ericsson).

You're going to give the puck away when you play against that level of competition. Even still, he's only got 1 giveaway for every 33 minutes he plays.

Kronwall has 25 hits in 33 games, Bouwmeester has 31 hits in 31 games. Kronwall has 51 blocked shots in 33 games, Bouwmeester has 49 in 31 games.
Yet when you compare them by relative QoC Kronwall ranks ahead of Bouwmeester...its all beside the point though, I'm not arguing that Kronwall is good defensively. I'm saying that Bouwmeester isn't either, and that just because someone plays in tough situations against the oppositions best players doesn't necessarily make them good defensively.

Bouwmeester ranks top 5 in QoC but he also ranks bottom 5 in goals against while on the ice.

FlashyG is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:15 AM
  #43
Ricelund
We like our team.
 
Ricelund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,290
vCash: 500
I've wanted Bouwmeester all season.

The Wings need a number one badly. Bouwmeester may not be an elite number one guy, but he can fill the role of a number one role adequately, moreso than Kronwall, IMO. It's not easy to find guys like him. There's none available in UFA this year and it's rare that they become available via trade.

If the price is reasonable, I'd certainly take a chance on him. He's overpaid but he only has a year left on his deal.


Last edited by Ricelund: 03-28-2013 at 12:23 AM.
Ricelund is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:23 AM
  #44
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 17,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Yet when you compare them by relative QoC Kronwall ranks ahead of Bouwmeester...its all beside the point though, I'm not arguing that Kronwall is good defensively. I'm saying that Bouwmeester isn't either, and that just because someone plays in tough situations against the oppositions best players doesn't necessarily make them good defensively.

Bouwmeester ranks top 5 in QoC but he also ranks bottom 5 in goals against while on the ice.
And Datsyuk perennially ranks among the top in takeaways...but also in giveaways. Its the same logic.

Also, Calgary has 3 defenseman who rank bottom 5 in goals against while on the ice, and their entire top 4 ranks bottom 15 in goals against while on the ice.

That says little about Bouwmeester and much more about the team.

detredWINgs is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:23 AM
  #45
kuick
Tatar Sauce
 
kuick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids
Country: United States
Posts: 2,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
I've wanted Bouwmeester all season.
Sort of in the same boat, I'm just really weary of what we might give up for him.

He would thrive in our system.

We really need to clear out the glutton of average roster players first. I mentioned this on the trade board too. Way too many NHL players right now (not a bad problem to have, I suppose), but most of them are plugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Bouwmeester ranks top 5 in QoC but he also ranks bottom 5 in goals against while on the ice.
While in Calgary.

Would he be better here? Maybe. I wonder if his offensive skill that he left in Florida would magically get sparked in a puck moving system.

kuick is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:26 AM
  #46
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
The Wings could resign Flip, Howard, Brunner...
trade for Bouwmeester
Sign Regerh and Torres
But they'd need to buy out Bert and Sammy, and trade CC and Quincey. And they'd need to let Cleary, Miller and White walk

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($4.750m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m)
Raffi Torres ($1.750m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.850m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.750m)
Robyn Regehr ($3.000m) / Brendan Smith ($1.750m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jimmy Howard ($5.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.098% of upper limit)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.025m—1.0%) Kyle Quincey ($0.038m—1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,453,962; BONUSES: $160,000
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $6,038

Not that I am advocating for it.

But I think the idea that we can't afford it only is true if you're married to the garbage we currently have on the roster

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:27 AM
  #47
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuick View Post
Sort of in the same boat, I'm just really weary of what we might give up for him.

He would thrive in our system.

We really need to clear out the glutton of average roster players first. I mentioned this on the trade board too. Way too many NHL players right now (not a bad problem to have, I suppose), but most of them are plugs.



While in Calgary.

Would he be better here? Maybe. I wonder if his offensive skill that he left in Florida would magically get sparked in a puck moving system.
Depends on his role.
IMO, it doesn't matter. If Kronwall gets first unit PP minutes, then he racks up the points. If Bouwmeester gets first unit PP minutes, then he racks up the points.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:29 AM
  #48
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
I'd certainly take a chance on him. He's overpaid but he only has a year left on his deal.
I don't get this.
Part of the reason why any team would want Bouwmeester is because he's younger and could be resigned.
So unless you think he's going to take a pay cut, having one year left on his deal isn't advantageous or disadvantageous.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:36 AM
  #49
Ricelund
We like our team.
 
Ricelund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
I don't get this.
Part of the reason why any team would want Bouwmeester is because he's younger and could be resigned.
So unless you think he's going to take a pay cut, having one year left on his deal isn't advantageous or disadvantageous.
If he sucks, you let him go. If he's good, you can probably sign him for a similar number.

What's confusing?

Ricelund is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 12:39 AM
  #50
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
And Datsyuk perennially ranks among the top in takeaways...but also in giveaways. Its the same logic.

Also, Calgary has 3 defenseman who rank bottom 5 in goals against while on the ice, and their entire top 4 ranks bottom 15 in goals against while on the ice.

That says little about Bouwmeester and much more about the team.
Actually I don't think Datsyuk has ever been anywhere near the top 10 in giveaways. This is probably the worst season he's had in a decade turning the puck over, and he ranks 35th

In this his worst season Datsyuk has the exact same # of giveaways as Bouwmeester but 8 times more takeaways.

Datsyuk is responsible defensively...Bouwmeester is not.

Admittedly playing on Calgary has made his #'s worse, but he's not going to become a shut down guy by switching teams. His #'s would improve in Detroit, but mostly because he'd be playing on the second pairing.

FlashyG is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.