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Old
03-28-2013, 01:40 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Any chance we can get Hudler back in the deal, please?
Is this a joke?

In all honesty though, I'd gladly take Glencross back in the deal, although he's pretty much untouchable given that he's headed for his third 20+ goal season and only costs $2.5M for the next 2 years after this.

I'd totally take a deal centered around Bouwmeester/Glencross for Quincey/Filppula/++ though. Glencross essentially replaces Filppula's offense at half the price.

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03-28-2013, 01:42 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
If he sucks, you let him go. If he's good, you can probably sign him for a similar number.

What's confusing?
So you give up a 1st round pick and one or more of our top prospects like Tatar, Jarnkrok or Nyquist just to see if he's going to be good?

You don't give up those kind of assets unless you're SURE he's going to re-sign with you and that he's part of your long term plan.

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03-28-2013, 01:43 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
If he sucks, you let him go. If he's good, you can probably sign him for a similar number.

What's confusing?
What's confusing is why you would want to pick up a defenseman with such a unjustifiably-giant cap hit in the first place, and also why on earth you would re-sign such a player to a deal at the same cap hit.

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03-28-2013, 01:45 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
The Wings could resign Flip, Howard, Brunner...
trade for Bouwmeester
Sign Regerh and Torres
But they'd need to buy out Bert and Sammy, and trade CC and Quincey. And they'd need to let Cleary, Miller and White walk

Not that I am advocating for it.

But I think the idea that we can't afford it only is true if you're married to the garbage we currently have on the roster
If JBo is added before the deadline, I think we could benefit from flipping White for some additional assets. A 2nd would be ideal.

I like your lineup, but in a more realistic situation, replace Regehr with Dekeyser. As much as I've despised Sammy in the past, he's played what, 3 games this year? He probably stays on the 3rd line instead of adding Torres. Eaves waived possibly? I'd like to keep Miller if possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Depends on his role.
IMO, it doesn't matter. If Kronwall gets first unit PP minutes, then he racks up the points. If Bouwmeester gets first unit PP minutes, then he racks up the points.
What about both? They're both puck-movers but we've got Smith and Kindl on the 2nd PP. A right hand shot can be helpful but so could someone with the offensive prowess of JBo in his Florida days.

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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
So unless you think he's going to take a pay cut
Uhh, probably. You don't think he knows that he hasn't lived up to his contract? That's a pretty big weight to keep on his shoulders. A more accurate valuation might do wonders for his mental game, if he wanted to stay in Detroit. He could just as easily walk to another huge payday, I guess.

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03-28-2013, 01:46 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
If he sucks, you let him go. If he's good, you can probably sign him for a similar number.

What's confusing?
Because the price for Bouwmeester is obviously going to be fairly high, because of his age.

You're acting like he's possibly a rental.

I think that you don;t make a big deal unless you're sure he's a guy you want to keep for 7-8 years.

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Old
03-28-2013, 01:50 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
The Wings could resign Flip, Howard, Brunner...
trade for Bouwmeester
Sign Regerh and Torres
But they'd need to buy out Bert and Sammy, and trade CC and Quincey. And they'd need to let Cleary, Miller and White walk

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($4.750m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m)
Raffi Torres ($1.750m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.850m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.750m)
Robyn Regehr ($3.000m) / Brendan Smith ($1.750m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jimmy Howard ($5.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.098% of upper limit)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.025m—1.0%) Kyle Quincey ($0.038m—1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,453,962; BONUSES: $160,000
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $6,038

Not that I am advocating for it.

But I think the idea that we can't afford it only is true if you're married to the garbage we currently have on the roster
I dont see Ken Holland trading for 2 Defenseman In JayBow and Regehr Especially If we land DeKeyser, If we dont get DeKeyser then I would be a decent deal I'm still kind of hoping we can resign Filppula for the right price or go out and get maybe either Clowe or Stafford.

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Old
03-28-2013, 01:52 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
So you give up a 1st round pick and one or more of our top prospects like Tatar, Jarnkrok or Nyquist just to see if he's going to be good?

You don't give up those kind of assets unless you're SURE he's going to re-sign with you and that he's part of your long term plan.
Did you miss the part where I said "if the price is reasonable"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
What's confusing is why you would want to pick up a defenseman with such a unjustifiably-giant cap hit in the first place, and also why on earth you would re-sign such a player to a deal at the same cap hit.
If his cap hit is so incredibly terrible, why are the Red Wings considering him?

You think the Red Wings can do no wrong. This must be a hard one for you to explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Because the price for Bouwmeester is obviously going to be fairly high, because of his age.

You're acting like he's possibly a rental.

I think that you don;t make a big deal unless you're sure he's a guy you want to keep for 7-8 years.
I'm just saying you're not trading for a player who's signed for 10 more years. If you screw up and lose some solid assets for a guy who flames out, at least you're not tied to him and his cap hit forever.

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03-28-2013, 01:52 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuick View Post
If JBo is added before the deadline, I think we could benefit from flipping White for some additional assets. A 2nd would be ideal.

I like your lineup, but in a more realistic situation, replace Regehr with Dekeyser. As much as I've despised Sammy in the past, he's played what, 3 games this year? He probably stays on the 3rd line instead of adding Torres. Eaves waived possibly? I'd like to keep Miller if possible.
You want to keep Sammy and Miller around. For what? Sammy is garbage. Miller is replaceable any day of the week.

A guy like Torres can score goals and hit like a brick and add power to a lineup that is soft and weak.

But let's keep Sammy and Miller.


Quote:
What about both? They're both puck-movers but we've got Smith and Kindl on the 2nd PP. A right hand shot can be helpful but so could someone with the offensive prowess of JBo in his Florida days.
Possibly.

Quote:
Uhh, probably. You don't think he knows that he hasn't lived up to his contract? That's a pretty big weight to keep on his shoulders. A more accurate valuation might do wonders for his mental game, if he wanted to stay in Detroit. He could just as easily walk to another huge payday, I guess.
Uh, probably not.
Bouwmeester's agent is going to point out that his stats declined because he was put into the #1PK role and basically put into the mop-up role on the CGY PK.

This year he was average like 1:30 PP a night.
In Florida, he played 3 to 4 minutes a night on the PP

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03-28-2013, 01:55 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
Did you miss the part where I said "if the price is reasonable"?


If his cap hit is so incredibly terrible, why are the Red Wings considering him?

You think the Red Wings can do no wrong. This must be a hard one for you to explain.


I'm just saying you're not trading for a player who's signed for 10 more years. If you screw up and lose some solid assets for a guy who flames out, at least you're not tied to him and his cap hit forever.
I'm saying you don't trade solid assets away unless you're confident he's worth his salary.
So I don't think having only one year left makes Jaybo a better risk.

I think it makes him a worse risk. Because he might take off to play in Edmonton or Toronto next year.

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03-28-2013, 01:55 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Because the price for Bouwmeester is obviously going to be fairly high, because of his age.

You're acting like he's possibly a rental.

I think that you don;t make a big deal unless you're sure he's a guy you want to keep for 7-8 years.
Bouwmeester hasn't "sucked" in arguably 8/10 career seasons, despite the hype (which, as we know, is so reliable). He's been overpaid, yes, but he doesn't "suck" in the sense that we wouldn't re-sign him at the age of 30.

This is Ken Holland we're talking about. He doesn't make risky trades and yet he's been kicking the tires on Bouwmeester for a year now. I'm sure much of the reason why Bouwmeester appeals to Holland is because he's had a remarkably consistent career thus far. You know you're getting a guy who can eat 25+ minutes a night, put up 30-40 points, and is as healthy as a horse.

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03-28-2013, 02:00 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
You want to keep Sammy and Miller around. For what? Sammy is garbage. Miller is replaceable any day of the week.

A guy like Torres can score goals and hit like a brick and add power to a lineup that is soft and weak.

But let's keep Sammy and Miller.
I didn't say that's what I wanted. I said realistic in a Ken Holland run world.

Miller's a lot more useful than a post-injury Eaves, who you left in the lineup.

Quote:
Uh, probably not.
Bouwmeester's agent is going to point out that his stats declined because he was put into the #1PK role and basically put into the mop-up role on the CGY PK.

This year he was average like 1:30 PP a night.
In Florida, he played 3 to 4 minutes a night on the PP
He's got another year, he's not a rental. Playing a full year in Detroit will show what he can do, and in what situations.

I'm only in favor of adding him at the right price. Based on Iginla's price, it's clear Feaster is on some good stuff. We won't have to give up Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jarnkrok or even XO/Sproul.

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03-28-2013, 02:01 AM
  #62
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Not worth it to me, asking price seems to be a 1st rnder and a top prospect (i.e. Nyquist or Tatar), and I have heard mixed thoughts on JBo. If the Wings are to give up that much I`d rather see something more promising coming back

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03-28-2013, 02:08 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Gerin View Post
Not worth it to me, asking price seems to be a 1st rnder and a top prospect (i.e. Nyquist or Tatar), and I have heard mixed thoughts on JBo. If the Wings are to give up that much I`d rather see something more promising coming back
Agreed more like Yandle.

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Old
03-28-2013, 02:22 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
Did you miss the part where I said "if the price is reasonable"?
You didn't exactly define what you consider reasonable. If Douglas Murray is worth 2, 2nd round picks than even someone like me who doesn't like Bouwmeester at all, would consider a 1st and a high end prospect a reasonable price for him.

I wouldn't give up that kind of a package for someone unless I had plans to keep them beyond 1 playoff run.

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03-28-2013, 02:30 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
You didn't exactly define what you consider reasonable. If Douglas Murray is worth 2, 2nd round picks than even someone like me who doesn't like Bouwmeester at all, would consider a 1st and a high end prospect a reasonable price for him.

I wouldn't give up that kind of a package for someone unless I had plans to keep them beyond 1 playoff run.
If Detroit were willing to give up a 1st and Nyquist/Tatar/Etc for Bouwmeester, he'd be in a Wings uniform already.

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03-28-2013, 02:44 AM
  #66
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aaron ward is a moron.

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03-28-2013, 02:46 AM
  #67
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We're discussing trading valuable assets for freakin' Jay Bouwmeester while the main board is talking about Ryan Suter being a front runner for the Norris. Not to mention what Pittsburgh did. Tonight sucks. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1387283

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03-28-2013, 02:47 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
We're discussing trading valuable assets for freakin' Jay Bouwmeester while the main board is talking about Ryan Suter being a front runner for the Norris. Tonight sucks. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1387283
bouwmeester is a downgrade. his contract is bloated i dont want him. give me dekeyser and ill live with what he becomes...

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03-28-2013, 02:50 AM
  #69
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bouwmeester is a downgrade. his contract is bloated i dont want him. give me dekeyser and ill live with what he becomes...
Undoubtedly and I concur 100%

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03-28-2013, 02:51 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
If his cap hit is so incredibly terrible, why are the Red Wings considering him?
Did you miss the part where McKenzie was simply talking about what he thinks would be wise for KH to do? No reputable sources have claimed that the Red Wings are considering a trade for him.

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03-28-2013, 02:58 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Did you miss the part where McKenzie was simply talking about what he thinks would be wise for KH to do? No reputable sources have claimed that the Red Wings are considering a trade for him.
I really don't want Bouwmeester on this team unless it's strictly picks, Quincey, Colaiacovo or some 2nd tier prospects going the other way.


Last edited by crashman: 03-28-2013 at 03:05 AM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 03:04 AM
  #72
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Did you miss the part where McKenzie was simply talking about what he thinks would be wise for KH to do? No reputable sources have claimed that the Red Wings are considering a trade for him.
Fair enough, if you think the McKenzie tweet is pure speculation.

Last deadline, there was legit rumor talk of Detroit in talks for JBo. That shows you what they think of his caphit. They added Quincey instead. Now that Calgary is headed to 100% firesale, the price has probably dropped. It's speculation but there's weight behind it.

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03-28-2013, 03:06 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
This year he was average like 1:30 PP a night.
In Florida, he played 3 to 4 minutes a night on the PP
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Depends on his role.
IMO, it doesn't matter. If Kronwall gets first unit PP minutes, then he racks up the points. If Bouwmeester gets first unit PP minutes, then he racks up the points.
Hahaha, do you even bother checking stats before you make your regularly absurd claims (edit: sorry... stupid question---the answer has long since been obvious!)? In no season of his career has Bouwmeester scored more points on the power play than at even strength, and his time in Florida saw only 36% of his points be scored on the power play. Logically he should be scoring vastly more at even strength, but he isn't.

He's just not that great on offense anymore.

Quote:
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Fair enough, if you think the McKenzie tweet is pure speculation.
There was no tweet on the subject. It was something he said on TSN, and he versed it as pure speculation. Do your research before you make these claims.

Quote:
Last deadline, there was legit rumor talk of Detroit in talks for JBo.
Legit rumor talk? Rumors are, by their very nature, not inherently legitimate. There were rumors about Bouwmeester throughout early 2012 and during the offseason, but at not point were they confirmed by anybody. The fact that the rumor mill starts churning on a topic means precisely nothing.

And please don't put up the "A team source confirmed..." article, as that refers to a BS article on a random Flames blog.

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03-28-2013, 03:08 AM
  #74
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I'd be more inclined to take JBo if the Wings were actually, you know, a contender.

If we're just sending garbage back the other way (Quincey, CC, Sammy, White part deux, hey, maybe even Cleary! ), fine. Good possibility of that too, since Feasters a moron... but reality says it'll probably cost us at least Kindl, and I really don't want to give up on him at this point.

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03-28-2013, 03:10 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashman View Post
I really don't want Bouwmeester on this team unless it's strictly picks, Quincey, Colaiacovo or some 2nd tier prospects going the other way.
Sure... but I don't think it's unreasonable for an NHL GM to be more realistic than a fan who would only give crappy players for a consensus #2 dman... I don't really think we need him unless we can dump some of this extra depth, but I know that there's no reason for Calgary to do it if we don't throw them a prospect or pick back. And not just a "2nd tier" one. Let's be realistic.

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