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08-10-2006, 06:33 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Big Lee is a guy people can say i told you so about now. On this board from the day he was picked not many people thought he would make it this far. Big Lee is a guy that could get a callup this year due to injury. The guy has size and can skate and those guys end up in the NHL. He is going to be a solid bottom two line guy in the NHL and some of us having been saying THAT about the guy for a long time..
Right now he's trying to be a bit more than an average bottom line guy at the AHL level.

Think there is a big ways to go on that one.....

Though if the eternal hope right now is that our only pick in the top 60 in the NHL draft becomes a fourth line center than I think that says about that needs to be said about the selection.

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08-10-2006, 09:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Right now he's trying to be a bit more than an average bottom line guy at the AHL level.

Think there is a big ways to go on that one.....

Though if the eternal hope right now is that our only pick in the top 60 in the NHL draft becomes a fourth line center than I think that says about that needs to be said about the selection.
He is a good bottom two line guy and that will translate to the NHL..

Just because better players were picked after him doesn't mean anything? How many guys WON'T make it to the NHL at all? It was the wrong pick but it isn't a reason to give up on the player. The kid was never projected to be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line guy. The fact that his developing into that shouldn't shock anyone nor should it be looked as a negative. The Rangers right or wrong never came out and said this guy was going to be the next Lindros or anything. IIRC they projected him to be a good checking line guy.

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08-10-2006, 11:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
We can all try to be analysts, but in truth, none of us are. That's why there's professionals, and people like us, posting our opinions which we sometimes exude upon others a little too forcefully. We're all guilty of it once in a while, it's a matter of cooler heads prevailing. So yeah, I'll join you in that club as well, Pizza.

Hey... nothing wrong with pretending like you know what you're talking about, everyone does it... except me, I always know what I'm talking about, hehe.


My fondest hope is that these guys make to the Rangers and play well. I'd be satisfied with that at this point. If one or both of them score playoff goals, I'd be getting a little cocky. If one or both score a goal that helps clinch a Playoff game or even a series, I might start swinging the scythe. Just letting ya'll know.


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08-11-2006, 12:11 AM
  #104
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it's a shame that all this debate couldn't have been expended on the merits of micheal sauer, a prospect that most of us care about alot more than either jessiman or lee.

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08-11-2006, 01:05 AM
  #105
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He is a good bottom two line guy and that will translate to the NHL..
Based on what though? Most people who watched him in Hartford frequently thought he was an average at best AHL checking center, and I also agreed with that.

And average at best AHL checking center does not translate into a good bottom two guy at the NHL level. Now if the guy were considered one of the better checking centers at the AHL level than maybe, but being a C player at the AHL level (and that might be being pretty generous) translates into a guy who does not look likely to be an NHL player let alone a "good" role player.

Quote:
Just because better players were picked after him doesn't mean anything? How many guys WON'T make it to the NHL at all? It was the wrong pick but it isn't a reason to give up on the player. The kid was never projected to be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line guy. The fact that his developing into that shouldn't shock anyone nor should it be looked as a negative. The Rangers right or wrong never came out and said this guy was going to be the next Lindros or anything. IIRC they projected him to be a good checking line guy.

It's not a matter of everyone who was picked after him, it's that some people here knew it was a bad move and that's the reason. Now I give the team credit for their good picks but I'm not going to try and spin a bad pick either that isn't going to work out. Just like I don't say "WEll anyone could've gotten lucky" when the team finds a Staal or a Lundqvist, I'm not going to say "oh well how many guys after him aren't going to make it" either. For better or worse I like to call a spade a spade.

And Lee playing on the 4th line in Hartford has not looked like a guy remotely close to making anything remotely close to the jump to the NHL, even as a 3rd, 4th line player. And that is where the problem comes in, he HASN"t looked like a 3rd/4th line NHL'er. How many everyday Hartford fans have commented on him? None really. And there is a reason for that.

Right now the guy isn't even a blip on the Rangers bottom 6 forward prospect list. The guys who look to be heading that direction are the Helminen's, the Moore's, the Hollweg's, etc. etc. Lee is not remotely close to that area, it's a big reason why none of the Hartford fans or even the Rangers themselves have even made a peep about him in a long time.

Your right in that he was never compared to Eric Lindros, but there was a very pronounced Joel Otto from the Rangers to which most draft observers, including those on here responded with a resounding "Who the hell were they watching?".

Have the Rangers found some really good prospects? You bet, I could name off steals that they got in the last 4 years. But on the flip side of that, I'm also going to comment on the moves that weren't so good.

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08-11-2006, 07:13 AM
  #106
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The unfortunate truth for both Falardeau and Jessiman is that they have both been passed on the depth chart by many prospects - Moore and Dawes are both ahead of Jessiman, and I'd make the case that Korpikoski, Cliche and Dupont are more likely to be successful NHL players than Jessiman is right now, while Helminen was clearly more successful at Hartford last year, and someone like Tom Pyatt has already drawn far bigger raves than Falardeau. What's unfortunate is that both Jessiman and Falardeau could offer the Rangers something unique to their system - size with skating ability. But, right now, both are afterthoughts and wildcards in this rebuilding process. I would love nothing more than to see Jessiman realize his potential, and at least reach a Mike Knuble/Glen Murray level of production. (The hopes of a Bertuzzi/LeClair type of player are pipe dreams at this point.) But, I can't expect such a thing to occur at this stage. The onus is on Jessiman to prove his critics wrong. Even a year ago at this time I had hopes that Jessiman would be a key player in what I see as Ranger prospect who will be essential to the future core. But, he has been surpassed by the likes of Dubinsky, Moore, Dawes, Cliche and Dupont in terms of development, so I can't, in good faith, consider him in that light anymore.

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08-11-2006, 11:18 AM
  #107
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Of the two I think Jessiman still stands the better odds. Because of who the Rangers have in their system, I think is REALLY going to have his work cut out for him.

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08-11-2006, 11:19 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post


My fondest hope is that these guys make to the Rangers and play well. I'd be satisfied with that at this point. If one or both of them score playoff goals, I'd be getting a little cocky. If one or both score a goal that helps clinch a Playoff game or even a series, I might start swinging the scythe. Just letting ya'll know.
I hear what you're saying. When you get ridiculed for a while for having faith in someone or something, and that person or thing comes through, you're definitely entitled to your "I Told You So's."

There's just a line to it, and the real issue is not crossing it and appearing to be a total jerk. To me, the quiet treatment is the best, because NO ONE will say anything when you prove them wrong, and when you're just doing your thing, no one will try to challenge you again.

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08-11-2006, 11:22 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Of the two I think Jessiman still stands the better odds. Because of who the Rangers have in their system, I think is REALLY going to have his work cut out for him.
I agree, but remember, aside from Hugh, we have no power forwards in our system. That's gotta be a huge advantage in Hugh's favor, so he still has a legit chance of making it, unless they go and draft a big power center or winger in 07, then he's back where he was right around the time of the injury, in kahoots.

Greg Moore isn't going to be a big scorer at the NHL level, even though he's got a better chance of making this year's team as of right now, but he's not even a legit power forward, I have him down as a 3rd line grinder who can maybe put up 10-20 goals and 30-40 points if lucky.

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08-11-2006, 11:32 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I agree, but remember, aside from Hugh, we have no power forwards in our system. That's gotta be a huge advantage in Hugh's favor, so he still has a legit chance of making it, unless they go and draft a big power center or winger in 07, then he's back where he was right around the time of the injury, in kahoots.

Greg Moore isn't going to be a big scorer at the NHL level, even though he's got a better chance of making this year's team as of right now, but he's not even a legit power forward, I have him down as a 3rd line grinder who can maybe put up 10-20 goals and 30-40 points if lucky.
I think they have some power forwards/pesky forwards, though they lack an elite one as you were getting at.

If guys like Moore and a Dupoint chip in 15 goals a pop and play a power game, than that's some power on the third line.

Hall, who is a crap shoot, has some potential. Maybe he can becomes a 25 goal scorer, we'll see.

Dubinsky is going to be a very chippy center and with some added size he could be a power forward.

I think they have some options, though they don't have a clear cut/ top end power forward outside of maybe Dubinsky who has he's grown has transitioned from more of a pesk to a poor man's Messier (elbow here, drop the gloves there, stick to the face, etc.)

But this is where the conversation loops back on itself and comes back to 2003 with guys like Brown or Getzlaf in the power forward category. It's annoying, I know, but that's where the dead horse elements come from.

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08-12-2006, 02:17 PM
  #111
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Based on what though? Most people who watched him in Hartford frequently thought he was an average at best AHL checking center, and I also agreed with that.

And average at best AHL checking center does not translate into a good bottom two guy at the NHL level. Now if the guy were considered one of the better checking centers at the AHL level than maybe, but being a C player at the AHL level (and that might be being pretty generous) translates into a guy who does not look likely to be an NHL player let alone a "good" role player.




It's not a matter of everyone who was picked after him, it's that some people here knew it was a bad move and that's the reason. Now I give the team credit for their good picks but I'm not going to try and spin a bad pick either that isn't going to work out. Just like I don't say "WEll anyone could've gotten lucky" when the team finds a Staal or a Lundqvist, I'm not going to say "oh well how many guys after him aren't going to make it" either. For better or worse I like to call a spade a spade.

And Lee playing on the 4th line in Hartford has not looked like a guy remotely close to making anything remotely close to the jump to the NHL, even as a 3rd, 4th line player. And that is where the problem comes in, he HASN"t looked like a 3rd/4th line NHL'er. How many everyday Hartford fans have commented on him? None really. And there is a reason for that.

Right now the guy isn't even a blip on the Rangers bottom 6 forward prospect list. The guys who look to be heading that direction are the Helminen's, the Moore's, the Hollweg's, etc. etc. Lee is not remotely close to that area, it's a big reason why none of the Hartford fans or even the Rangers themselves have even made a peep about him in a long time.

Your right in that he was never compared to Eric Lindros, but there was a very pronounced Joel Otto from the Rangers to which most draft observers, including those on here responded with a resounding "Who the hell were they watching?".

Have the Rangers found some really good prospects? You bet, I could name off steals that they got in the last 4 years. But on the flip side of that, I'm also going to comment on the moves that weren't so good.
Edge I also watched Falardeau play and I could care less what most people think or say. (or have you not noticed the past 3 years) He was more than an average third line center. He isn't a C player in the AHL and the slanted nature of your posts about the guy aren't going to make me believe it to be true.

I too think this was a bad pick but don't think all is lost with Falardeau.

Psst..because of roster restrictions the AHL doesn't play 4 lines.. To suggest that is the spot he is playing in hartford kinda makes me think you haven't watched the guy at all in Hartford..

How many Hartford fans are there? I bet i go to more Wolfpack games than the average Hartford resident and I'm a 100 miles away. While some people were claming the Rangers compared him to Joel Otto I've been calling him Mike Eastwood since the day he was drafted.

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08-12-2006, 08:28 PM
  #112
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I thought...

the AHL had 11 forwards. 3 full lines and two extras. I also thought that Falardeau played 4th line kind of minutes, like less than 10 minutes per game. Could be wrong, but it seemed to be that he wasn't out there every third shift in the few games I saw him play.

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08-12-2006, 11:51 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think they have some power forwards/pesky forwards, though they lack an elite one as you were getting at.

If guys like Moore and a Dupoint chip in 15 goals a pop and play a power game, than that's some power on the third line.

Hall, who is a crap shoot, has some potential. Maybe he can becomes a 25 goal scorer, we'll see.

Dubinsky is going to be a very chippy center and with some added size he could be a power forward.

I think they have some options, though they don't have a clear cut/ top end power forward outside of maybe Dubinsky who has he's grown has transitioned from more of a pesk to a poor man's Messier (elbow here, drop the gloves there, stick to the face, etc.)

But this is where the conversation loops back on itself and comes back to 2003 with guys like Brown or Getzlaf in the power forward category. It's annoying, I know, but that's where the dead horse elements come from.
I agree to an extent, I'd call those guys moreso grinders. They have size, and some skill, but their game is more so a dirty work game, not a true goal scorer's game, and that's what distinguishes the grinders from the power forwards if you ask me. There's nothing wrong with grinders, we made the playoffs for the first time in how many seasons in due a large part to them.

This dead horse element will never go away until Jessiman wins a cup with this team. It will always come back because someone will see Getzlaf and how he comes along at the NHL level and say... "hey, we could have had that guy." Or, someone will say he's a bust. Or he could get traded to another team, develop with them, and do something meaningful there, ala Todd Bertuzzi.

By the way, I like the Dubinsky assessment, if that's what he develops into, I'm on the Dubi-wagon. It's still a crapshoot at this point, but he's come along quite well, I must say.

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08-14-2006, 09:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the AHL had 11 forwards. 3 full lines and two extras. I also thought that Falardeau played 4th line kind of minutes, like less than 10 minutes per game. Could be wrong, but it seemed to be that he wasn't out there every third shift in the few games I saw him play.
Thank you.

You just saved me the time or having to respond to that.

The guys used for very supporting roles at the AHL level usually do not translate into "good" NHL checking forwards unless they are willing to become enforcers.

Even the Hollwegs and the Ortmeyers and the Ward's played substanial roles on AHL teams and/or at lower ranks before become bottom 6 NHL players.

Lee, thus far, has not and with who the Rangers have coming in this season and how tight that roster is going to be, I don't see that improving any.

And the fact still remains you better hope your only pick in the top 60 becomes more than a very risky maybe 4th liner.

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08-14-2006, 09:11 PM
  #115
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Edge I also watched Falardeau play and I could care less what most people think or say. (or have you not noticed the past 3 years) He was more than an average third line center. He isn't a C player in the AHL and the slanted nature of your posts about the guy aren't going to make me believe it to be true.

I too think this was a bad pick but don't think all is lost with Falardeau.

Psst..because of roster restrictions the AHL doesn't play 4 lines.. To suggest that is the spot he is playing in hartford kinda makes me think you haven't watched the guy at all in Hartford..

How many Hartford fans are there? I bet i go to more Wolfpack games than the average Hartford resident and I'm a 100 miles away. While some people were claming the Rangers compared him to Joel Otto I've been calling him Mike Eastwood since the day he was drafted.
Cmon SOS you've grown out of this phase of sarcasm and built yourself into a respectful poster, don't go into the sarcasm/pointed humor now.

Anyways, My thoughts on roster, etc. are in the post above this one.

As for the Hartford fans and people who watch, there are more than a few around here and more than few reporters on here and elsewhere. Opinions aside, there is a shortage of people watching the pack.

As for the people claiming the Rangers compared him to Otto, there is nothing doing. That is indeed what the Rangers said, not anyone else. While I'd love for Lee to turn into Mike Eastwood he has put up nothing close to the numbers Eastwood put up at the college or AHL levels nor as he warranted the icetime Eastwood did at the same stages.

As I said above, many of the bottom 6 forwards in the NHL played substantial minutes elsewhere. Juniors, college, AHL, etc. In fairness, there really isn't a list of guys who didn't play the minutes at college (and were about as close to cut from the team as possible) and the AHL level who've made the jump and reached the "good" category.

Now if Lee hadn't gone through that in college or really seemed to build on the life he showed at the ECHL level I might be able to entertain that, but that's really not what we've seen. And we have to factor in who the Rangers have coming and where they picked Lee.

Even if you don't believe all is lost with Lee (which is cool), the problem still becomes where he was taken and that's a problem. If Lee is a later pick I don't think we have this conversation and I think most people are okay with it, but unfortunatly for everyone he was picked where he was. I think what really fuels the argument with these players is where they were picked more than THAT they were picked.

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