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Top-6 Right Winger to Vancouver

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Old
03-28-2013, 02:00 AM
  #51
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Obviously we have to find the trade that makes the most sense. Doan is exactly what this team needs, and even if he does decline after a couple of years, we might be able to trade him to a cap floor team or find a way to put him on the LTIR. Right now our team's winger depth is extremely lacking in terms of high end talent.

Pittburgh has Iginla, Neal, Kunitz, and Morrow.
Chicago has Hossa, Kane, Sharp, and Saad
Boston has Seguin, Lucic, Horton, and Marchand
Anaheim has Perry, Ryan, Selanne, and Palmieri

We have Daniel, Burrows, Booth, Higgins

That is unacceptable for a contending team. We can acquire an impact player relatively cheaply - but there would be a negative, such as age or contract status. Or we can pay a solid price, and get a solid core player for years to come, at the expense of some prospects who may or may not work out.

While either of those options would be okay by me, standing pat with this winger depth does NOT seem a viable option to me.
I will take Daniel over any of those guys the Pens have, Neal is overrated, and Kunitz feeds off Crosby. Burrows would be a 40 goal scorer playing along side those guys.

Ours really isn't that bad:

Daniel, Burrows, Raymond, Hansen

Then aside from that we have Higgins, Kassian who can make a huge impact when hes on, and Booth still waiting who is built for the playoffs.

Ya we are lacking another star winger. But we don't need a star winger. We have our 3 star forwards. What we need is another center.

Pittsburgh has: Crosby, Malkin, Sutter
Chicago has: Toews, Sharp, Bolland
Boston has: Krejci, Bergeron, Peverly
Anaheim has: Getzlaf, Koivu, Holland/Cogliano/Bonino

We have: Henrik, Kesler, Schroeder/Lappierre/Ebbett

I am probably one of the biggest Schroeder fans. But I am not 100% confident he is the answer. Stanley cup winners have 3 things. Center depth (a good two-way 3rd line center), defensive depth, a great goaltender.

We have a Great goaltender, we have added Garrison who is really a HUGE addition, and now we need center depth.

Adding another winger would be great, but we aren't the Pens, we don't have the assets to overpay, and no one is going to give us an early Christmas present like Calgary just did.

If we can pick up a rental for very little (meaning no top prospects or 1st) then sure, great, pull the trigger. But if we have to choose between a center or a winger, I'm taking the center.

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03-28-2013, 02:01 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chuck Nucks View Post
Booth has been underperforming, hopefully he snaps out of it. We could try Jensen in our top 6/9 next season too (don't think he's ready this season).
Injuries and depth are why we'd want another 3rd line centre, and we don't know how Schroeder will play in the playoffs; the tempo is faster and the players hit harder and more often. To go into the playoffs with him as our 3rd line centre, without any back up plan or safety net, would be pretty foolish. This team knows what a long playoff run can do, injury-wise.
And like I said, what's up with everyone thinking a third line centre can't improve our offense and secondary scoring?
didnt we go to the finals with Lappierre as our 3rd line center? there 's your backup plan.. we need scoring not 3rd liners.


we need secondary scoring not tertiary scoring.


Last edited by PoolChamp: 03-28-2013 at 02:07 AM.
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03-28-2013, 02:02 AM
  #53
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It would make more sense to acquire a 2nd line center and play Kesler on his wing. That way we're insulated if an injury occurs in the playoffs, and we won't have to slide Ebbett in there.

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03-28-2013, 02:06 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We can't sign Roy for 8 years. Also, he apparently wants closer to 6 mil. There are teams that need him a lot more than us. Chicago or Anaheim, imo.
1) I believe we can do 8 years if we trade for him first.

2) I bet he'd give up a lot of salary for term.

3) The Hawks have a superstar on their 2nd line (Kane or Hossa) to carry the line offensively who can play with Bolland, and several young centres coming up (TT, Pirri, Kruger), we have a guy who gets hurt because he is put in every possible position to be injured in Kesler (checking line, defensive face-offs, in front of the net on the PP, first PK unit) while still relying completely on him to carry a line offensively...we need Roy more than they do.

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03-28-2013, 02:06 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I will take Daniel over any of those guys the Pens have, Neal is overrated, and Kunitz feeds off Crosby. Burrows would be a 40 goal scorer playing along side those guys.

Ours really isn't that bad:

Daniel, Burrows, Raymond, Hansen

Then aside from that we have Higgins, Kassian who can make a huge impact when hes on, and Booth still waiting who is built for the playoffs.

Ya we are lacking another star winger. But we don't need a star winger. We have our 3 star forwards. What we need is another center.

Pittsburgh has: Crosby, Malkin, Sutter
Chicago has: Toews, Sharp, Bolland
Boston has: Krejci, Bergeron, Peverly
Anaheim has: Getzlaf, Koivu, Holland/Cogliano/Bonino

We have: Henrik, Kesler, Schroeder/Lappierre/Ebbett

I am probably one of the biggest Schroeder fans. But I am not 100% confident he is the answer. Stanley cup winners have 3 things. Center depth (a good two-way 3rd line center), defensive depth, a great goaltender.

We have a Great goaltender, we have added Garrison who is really a HUGE addition, and now we need center depth.

Adding another winger would be great, but we aren't the Pens, we don't have the assets to overpay, and no one is going to give us an early Christmas present like Calgary just did.

If we can pick up a rental for very little (meaning no top prospects or 1st) then sure, great, pull the trigger. But if we have to choose between a center or a winger, I'm taking the center.
Sharp plays wing, not centre. Even then our centre depth is second only to Pittsburgh, like every other team without Crosby + Malkin.

Henrik >/= Toews > Getzlaf > Krejci
Kesler = Bergeron > Sharp(who isn't actually playing centre) >> Koivu
Bolland > Peverly > Schroeder > Holland

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03-28-2013, 02:06 AM
  #56
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didnt we go to the finals with Lappierre as our 3rd line center? there 's your backup plan.. we need scoring not 3rd liners.
Yeah, and we lost. Way to use an example to support my point. Unless your plan this season is to see the team get to the finals and lose again, then sure, your example works.
And a 3rd line centre can improve offense. Look at Goc's stats and games played, he'd bring some secondary scoring. Not only that, but if we can get a centre that is also a decent shutdown/faceoff guy, it takes away harder competition off our top 6 and gives them a better chance to score, like a trickle down effect. Not to mention top 6 forwards are much harder to acquire, and you need to give up more assets, which we don't have much of. Third line centre and a RH PMD are easier spots to fill. But I would agree that if a great top 6 forward becomes available, Gillis pursues him.

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03-28-2013, 02:06 AM
  #57
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didnt we go to the finals with Lappierre as our 3rd line center? there 's your backup plan.. we need scoring not 3rd liners.

Torres-Lapierre-Hansen actually outscored our 2nd line in the finals. Hell it outscored our Sedin line in the finals.


The problem with the canucks has always been the lack of production from the 2nd line.

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03-28-2013, 02:07 AM
  #58
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It would make more sense to acquire a 2nd line center and play Kesler on his wing. That way we're insulated if an injury occurs in the playoffs, and we won't have to slide Ebbett in there.
We could move Burrows, or Raymond, or Higgins to centre, too. Better than wasting a selke-calibre centre's defensive/faceoff talent at wing.

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03-28-2013, 02:08 AM
  #59
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doan will not move.. he loves phoenix for some reason even though that team been in a mess for 5+ yrs... he probably don't want all attention or press in big market..

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03-28-2013, 02:09 AM
  #60
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doan will not move.. he loves phoenix for some reason even though that team been in a mess for 5+ yrs... he probably don't want all attention or press in big market..
He might not want to move, but tell that to the entire team and ownership.

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03-28-2013, 02:10 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chuck Nucks View Post
Yeah, and we lost. Way to use an example to support my point. Unless your plan this season is to see the team get to the finals and lose again, then sure, your example works.
And a 3rd line centre can improve offense. Look at Goc's stats and games played, he'd bring some secondary scoring. Not only that, but if we can get a centre that is also a decent shutdown/faceoff guy, it takes away harder competition off our top 6 and gives them a better chance to score, like a trickle down effect. Not to mention top 6 centres are much harder to acquire, and you need to give up more assets, which we don't have much of. Third line centre and a RH PMD are easier spots to fill. But I would agree that if a great top 6 forward becomes available, Gillis pursues him.
we lost because we didnt have secondary scoring, ffs how hard is this to grasp?

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03-28-2013, 02:10 AM
  #62
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doan will not move.. he loves phoenix for some reason even though that team been in a mess for 5+ yrs... he probably don't want all attention or press in big market..
This is from the offseason. If the Coyotes are out of the playoffs and looking at relocation, trading Doan is a very real possibility.

Quote:
There were rumblings Thursday night that, if Doan was leaving town, he would be headed to the Vancouver Canucks, a team whose ownership situation was as steady as any team in the league's, was situated in a place he and his wife are familiar with, might give him a better opportunity to win now and, according to agent Terry Bross, blew him away with their presentation. Bross said he loved the Canucks' front office, and that he called them 1st class.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...9958--nhl.html

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03-28-2013, 02:10 AM
  #63
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we lost because we didnt have secondary scoring, ffs how hard is this to grasp?
It's like you didn't read the last 3/4 of my post.

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03-28-2013, 02:12 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Torres-Lapierre-Hansen actually outscored our 2nd line in the finals. Hell it outscored our Sedin line in the finals.


The problem with the canucks has always been the lack of production from the 2nd line.
The cause of the lack of production from the 2nd line is mostly due to Kesler playing hurt. The guy is great when healthy.

The reason Kesler always plays hurt is because we use him way too much in situations where guys are likely to get injured. We need another guy that can play tough minutes 5 on 5 and not get destroyed. The guy was playing over 20 minutes in meaningless games down the stretch last year despite carrying two injures, it makes no sense at all. This year, 2nd game back - boom 22 minutes including SH time. The guy was hurt again before he even managed to adjust to the speed of the game.

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03-28-2013, 02:13 AM
  #65
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It's like you didn't read the last 3/4 of my post.
I read it but I didn't want to comment on it.. a 3rd line center is gonna have a trickle down effect on the top 6? A 3rd line center is gonna give Kesler a playmaker or Booth a brain?

I think not.

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03-28-2013, 02:15 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We could move Burrows, or Raymond, or Higgins to centre, too. Better than wasting a selke-calibre centre's defensive/faceoff talent at wing.
Tell that to our assistant GM.

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"Ryan is a finisher, he's a shooter and he's a unique centreiceman (he's also really good at Faceoffs which is a key role for a centreiceman)," explained Gilman, "but some of the best hockey Kesler played in my time here is when he played right wing, with Mats Sundin in the middle." He continued to discuss a scenario in which the Canucks might consider moving Ryan Kesler over the wing, "When you have assets like Jordan Schroeder you have the luxury of maybe playing Ryan with other players."
- Laurence Gilman

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03-28-2013, 02:15 AM
  #67
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The cause of the lack of production from the 2nd line is mostly due to Kesler playing hurt. The guy is great when healthy.

The reason Kesler always plays hurt is because we use him way too much in situations where guys are likely to get injured. We need another guy that can play tough minutes 5 on 5 and not get destroyed. The guy was playing over 20 minutes in meaningless games down the stretch last year despite carrying two injures, it makes no sense at all. This year, 2nd game back - boom 22 minutes including SH time. The guy was hurt again before he even managed to adjust to the speed of the game.
When your entire 2nd line production is on the shoulder of 1 player, who is the C.

Clearly you need better wingers.

Wasn't it obvious after the cup run, and even Gillis himself promised Kesler to bring him a player to form a duo?

This is exactly why we need another legit offensive player.

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03-28-2013, 02:17 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We could move Burrows, or Raymond, or Higgins to centre, too. Better than wasting a selke-calibre centre's defensive/faceoff talent at wing.
Why not just play Kesler as the 3rd line centre?

It's not like he isn't going to play 20 minutes a night in that role anyways given that he's on both the PP and PK.

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03-28-2013, 02:18 AM
  #69
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Tell that to our assistant GM.



- Laurence Gilman
Burrows Schroeder Kesler

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03-28-2013, 02:19 AM
  #70
Vankiller Whale
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Tell that to our assistant GM.



- Laurence Gilman
The best hockey Kesler ever played was during his back-to-back 70+ point seasons(including a 40 goal one).

Regardless of what Gilman says. Personally I'm really hoping the Canucks management trying to play it cool is just a charade before a trade out of no where comes. The team as it is currently stands will not win a cup. Of that I am sure.

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03-28-2013, 02:20 AM
  #71
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I read it but I didn't want to comment on it.. a 3rd line center is gonna have a trickle down effect on the top 6? A 3rd line center is gonna give Kesler a playmaker or Booth a brain?

I think not.
Ok, so what top 6 player should Gillis pursue, and what do you think he should give up for them without gutting our depth and destroying our weak prospect pool?

Goc = 12 points in 28 games on a really bad and injury-riddled team.
Schroeder = 9 points in 28 games playing with some of the best current players on the team (I know you could say he makes them better, but Raymond and Hansen have looked this good in the past).
Goc also brings more size and experience and would come relatively cheap. He's just an example though, we might be able to get someone even better if we give up more. The depth is the most important part though, and the cost-benefit from the trade is easily worth it IMO. Address the top 6 playmaker through free agency or the Luongo trade.

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03-28-2013, 02:21 AM
  #72
Vankiller Whale
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Why not just play Kesler as the 3rd line centre?

It's not like he isn't going to play 20 minutes a night in that role anyways given that he's on both the PP and PK.
Because playing great players with lower quality linemates only bogs them down. Look what happened to Grabovski in TO. The same thing would happen to Kesler.

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03-28-2013, 02:22 AM
  #73
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Ok, so what top 6 player should Gillis pursue, and what do you think he should give up for them without gutting our depth and destroying our weak prospect pool?

Goc = 12 points in 28 games on a really bad and injury rittled team.
Schroeder = 9 points in 28 games playing with some of the best current players on the team (I know you could say he makes them better, but Raymond and Hansen have looked this good in the past).
Goc also brings more size and experience and would come relatively cheap. He's just an example though, we might be able to get someone even better if we give up more. The depth is the most important part though, and the cost-benefit from the trade is easily worth it IMO. Address the top 6 playmaker through free agency or the Luongo trade.
Schroeder has 4 points in his last 5 games with those players(and last game we got shut out in large part due to Bobrovsky, he was still generating chances). Before that he was stuck on the 4th line.

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03-28-2013, 02:24 AM
  #74
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Guys I'd like to see for the mid-long term

Pominville
Camalleri

Short term

Doan
Jagr

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03-28-2013, 02:24 AM
  #75
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Ok, so what top 6 player should Gillis pursue, and what do you think he should give up for them without gutting our depth and destroying our weak prospect pool?

Goc = 12 points in 28 games on a really bad and injury-riddled team.
Schroeder = 9 points in 28 games playing with some of the best current players on the team (I know you could say he makes them better, but Raymond and Hansen have looked this good in the past).
Goc also brings more size and experience and would come relatively cheap. He's just an example though, we might be able to get someone even better if we give up more. The depth is the most important part though, and the cost-benefit from the trade is easily worth it IMO. Address the top 6 playmaker through free agency or the Luongo trade.
I have no problem with getting Goc but that can't be it. Guys like Tanguay, CAmmy, Jagr, Doan are the ones that will put us over the top. I have no idea what to give up but it needs to happen or we aren't winning, simple as that.

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