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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul

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Old
03-27-2013, 08:14 PM
  #201
deftones1986
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A Clean Slate

Ok so I'm tired of wondering about how to patch this sinking ship that is the Flyers, so I'm going to rely on all of you guys to fix this for me.

Let's just pretend that every player with a No Trade Clause has waived it, so now we can do what we want with each player.


You are the Flyers GM and here is my guideline:

1- We are keeping Giroux. No questions asked. Moving on....

2- Now trade the remaining players for Draft Picks Only.

2a- The only Players that you can trade for are GOALIES.

3- Figuring out what the other teams needs are out there...What kind of future can you build by massively stockpiling draft picks for this club, and starting this thing from scratch quite literally?

4- Now add what players from this years draft you are going to pick to be the future of this organization?

5- Please just follow my guidelines and if you think this is the dumbest idea ever, just don't reply and let it fade away.

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03-27-2013, 08:17 PM
  #202
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To me this team is missing three big pieces. A #1 or potential #1 dman, a elite winger for Giroux, and consistent goaltending. I think as soon as we solve the first problem the rest will fall into place a whole lot better. I really do not think that we are going to be able to acquire the defenseman that we need through trade or through offer sheet so it has to be through the draft. Getting Jones would do wonders for the future of this defense as well as the present. I also think Nurse has the potential for that as well.

If we lose enough games or win the lottery to get Jones things will fall into place. If that happens I would like to see us do something like this. Keep Timonen, Schenn, Grossmann, Jones, and maybe Gus on defense. In this scenario I would hope we get at least a 1st for Coburn if not more and whatever we can get for Mez. We could then sign some vet players, hopefully on short contracts, like Streit and/or Hainsey.

Depending on what happens with Bryz's cap hit the defense could look like this

Streit-Schenn
Timonen-Jones
Grossmann-Gus

or

Streit-Schenn
Timonen-Jones
Grossmann-Hainsey
Gus

Then I would try to trade for Ryan to fill that Elite winger role. Hopefully something around Read + picks or Couts for less picks, which would probably be more likely. Maybe Read + 2014 1st (from Coburn trade) + conditional 2014 2nd that becomes our 2014 1st if we make the cup final or something like that. Otherwise Couts + Coburn or Couts + 2014 1st

So best case scenario

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Couts-Laughton
McGinn-Talbot-Rinaldo

or

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Harntell-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Laughton-Read
McGinn-Talbot-Rinaldo

As for goaltending trade a second round pick or two for one of the young backups around the league such as Bernier, Bishop, etc..

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Couts/Laughton-Laughton/Read
McGinn-Talbot-Rinaldo

Streit-Schenn
Timonen-Jones
Grossmann-Hainsey
Gus

Bernier/Bryz
Ellis

Best case scenario in my mind to balance competing for a cup next year and continuing to develop for the future. Ok, now go ahead and rip it apart

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Old
03-27-2013, 10:53 PM
  #203
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I honestly have no answers for the defense. There is no immediate solution. We'll have to look long term and sell what we can for high while putting in 'stop-gap' players for the meantime. Gonchar, Streit, Visnovsky, Lydman, Zidlicky, Scuderi, Ference, Hainsey, Smid and to a lesser extent Ian White, Rozsival and D. Murray could all do a similar job as everybody not named L. Schenn (only excluding him 'cause he's young still and has actually been decent) and Timonen have done this year - not to say I'd just want a repeat but it'd be using the resources we have to rebuild. Get picks+defense prospects who aren't that far off and sign veterans to play smart, calm hockey (Lydman/Scuderi + Streit!) and essentially do a major rebuild on defense instead of trying to again 'go for it'. Coburn, Grossmann and Meszaros should all be looked at trading. Timonen is all heart and I wouldn't trade him 'cause what he means for the teams interim > what he could net as a rental. Grossmann I would be most reluctant to trade because he too shows a tonne of guts out there.

Sign two or three vets depending on what they're asking and who we trade. I'd like one of Lydman/Scuderi/Ference and I'd take Gonchar/Vis/Streit on a short term. Timonen, L. Schenn, Lydman, Visnovsky and then whoever is left from Grossmann, Coburn and Meszaros PLUS whatever they could get from a trade. Gustafsson is the call-up. Still no #1 defender but if they play as a unit and don't play an 'attack, attack, attack' they should be decent.

In 2014 there's a much better list for UFAs on defense than 2013 ... notably:

Hjalmarsson, CHI
Letang, PIT
Fayne, NJ
Niskanen, PIT
Nikitin, CBJ
Emelin, MTL
Phaneuf, TOR
Quincey, DET
Diaz, MTL
Girardi, NYR
M. Stuart, WPG
Bouwmeester, CGY
Pitkanen, CAR (lol)
Ericsson, DET
M. Greene, LA
Gilbert, MIN
N. Schultz, EDM
Seidenberg, BOS
Klesla, PHX
Orpik, PIT
Markov, MTL
Phillips, OTT
Boyle, SJ

... not that they'll all make it that far, but some of them would be more than adequate replacements for guys like Meszaros/Grossmann/Coburn/Timonen. The only way we will find a true #1 defender is by another huge shake up trade or by drafting and developing our own, and clearly with a likely very high draft pick in a talent-packed draft the draft looks like the best option unless we have an opportunity to get a guy like MacKinnon/Drouin/etc. and Jones is already off the board. Nurse is a player who has climbed lists all year and he's pretty close to the top as it is... so I'd take Nurse but not over Drouin/MacKinnon/Barkov/Lindholm.

Without a doubt I think that the 2014 offseason will be when the franchise turns it around to being a contender again and I hope they have patience after a poor season ... much like Ottawa, Anaheim, Montreal, New Jersey and St. Louis have in recent memory.

Giroux, Couturier, B. and L. Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds and the 2013 1st should be the 'core' and they should build from the draft, getting vets through UFA but without overpaying or screwing the franchise with term. Any trades should be for futures or young, ready to play players (specifically defenders). If Bryzgalov is amnestied, a young-ish goaltender should be priority #1 (sorry defense). Matt Read is a possible trade chip who could have lots of value to teams in need of budget production, and could net the team a very nice player in return especially if packaged with another asset (hopefully something from another trade..?) ... David Rundblad would be my #1 target in terms of young defenders, and if he can be had without touching Couturier/Simmonds/etc. or the 2013 1st I don't hesitate. Targets for goaltenders would be Bernier (duh) or Bishop and go after Ray Emery to back-up. Emery is a beauty.

Key identity moves: Give Giroux a huge contract, make him the face of the franchise. Give B. Schenn and Couturier standard 2nd contracts instead of giving them $20+mil over 6 years like we did with JVR. Give them a two year deal or something, pointing to Giroux himself and guys around the league like PK Subban as examples.


Last edited by ahthorne: 03-28-2013 at 01:07 AM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 12:25 AM
  #204
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My plan:
Trade Coburn and Cousins to STL for Rattie and a 1st
Trade Couturier and a 2nd to PHX for Gormley and a 1st
Trade Fedotenko to whoever for a 4th

Rest of the season:
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Gagne - Schenn - Simmonds
Wellwood - Read - McGinn
Rinaldo - Talbot - Noebels

Timonen - Schenn
Gormley - Grossmann
Gustafsson - Foster
Gervais

Draft:
2nd overall - Seth Jones (D - Portland - WHL)
7th overall (PHX) - Darnell Nurse (D - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL)
18th overall (STL) - Anthony Mantha (LW - Val D'or - QMJHL)

Buyouts:
Bryzgalov
Briere

Free agency:
Sign Jimmy Howard
Sign Al Montoya
Sign Maxim Lapierre

2013-2014 roster:
Hartnell (31) - Giroux (25) - Voracek (24)
Simmonds (25) - Schenn (22) - Rattie (20)
Talbot (29) - Laughton (19) - Read (27)
Rinaldo (23) - Lapierre (28) - McGinn (23)

Timonen (38) - Schenn (23)
Grossmann (28) - Jones (19)
Gormley (21) - Meszaros (28)
Gustafsson (24)

Howard (30)
Montoya (28)


Last edited by orange is better: 03-28-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 07:53 AM
  #205
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Aside from all the fantasy lineups (which don't get me wrong I do enjoy viewing) I think the real realistic decisions that need to be made are:

A) Amnesty buyout of Briere. Love the guy and everything he did for the organization but its a terrible contract (and was when we signed it, however a bad year for us and a career year for him will do that) with no production. We can do a lot with $6.5 Mill and the buyout becomes even more necessary with the cap going down.

B) I would shop Scotty L around to see if we couldn't package a deal with him for a quality defenseman to bring in here. I don't have anyone personally in mind I just see a position that we have a lot of talent and depth at (Center) that we historically can easily draft, for a position that we are in dire need of and have never been able to draft (as far back as I can remember) in franchise history. As much as it also pains me to say, if you need to move Matt Read to bring in a blueliner, you have to do it. He has a lot of value with his low salary.

C) We need to use this pick on the best available defensive prospect available in the draft. We've all been saying that for the past X amount of seasons, the time is now.

D) There are a great number of offensive free agents next year with slim pickings at defense. Most of the blueliners available are bandaide stopgap guys that I really have no interest in. If we are to fill the void on the backend its going to have to come through a trade. We have a lot of dead weight coming off the books this year (Shelley, Rusty, Knuble, Foster, Walker, Leighton, Boucher, Gagne, Briere with the amnesty) and there are some quality role forwards out there.

E) We desperately need a back up goalie. I don't think I really need to go on about this.

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:03 AM
  #206
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No way we'll get Gormley and a 1st for Couts and a 2nd.

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:05 AM
  #207
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I dont think any teams are going to be trading away their first pick this year if they aren't a playoff team. Unless of course they are absolutely blown away by the offer

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:12 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I dont think any teams are going to be trading away their first pick this year if they aren't a playoff team. Unless of course they are absolutely blown away by the offer
Absolutely agree with that. Hopefully the lottery will work in our favor unlike 2007 and we can take Jones but this is Philadelphia so I'm expecting us to get the lowest pick possible from the lottery.

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:15 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brostradamus View Post
Absolutely agree with that. Hopefully the lottery will work in our favor unlike 2007 and we can take Jones but this is Philadelphia so I'm expecting us to get the lowest pick possible from the lottery.
I think we have to look at it that way so it won't hurt so bad if it happens. And if we ended up winning it, it would feel that much better

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:51 AM
  #210
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I'll be happy with any of the top 3. Giroux and Drouin could be an amazing combo.

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03-28-2013, 09:07 AM
  #211
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My thoughts:

1) Fire Lavy. Hire Guy Boucher.

2) Do our buyouts now. Briere and Bryzgalov. Bryz on the condition that we can get a Ben Bishop from OTT or pry Bernier from LA.

14.3M in cap space to work with. After buyouts, if traded for Bishop sign him to a 3 year 7.5M deal.

3) Package Meszaros off at the draft for a defensive prospect and a pick. If Steve Eminger can get a 1st, so can Meszaros.

4) Do not resign Fedotenko.

5) Give Gagne a 2 year deal worth 5M. He knows his value is not worth 3.5 anymore.

6) Draft BPA at whatever spot we land. Pray for Jones.

7) Use the money gained from Timonen's contract and resign Giroux to a multi-year deal around 8M.

8) Resign Matt Read. Use Couturier as PMD bait.

9) Our Core:

Simmonds, Giroux, B. Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Talbot, Read
Coburn, Grossman, L.Schenn, PMD

10) In the summer of 2014, go after Dion Phaneuf.

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03-28-2013, 09:09 AM
  #212
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They could do a lot better than Boucher who just failed miserably in Tampa. Dallas Eakins would be worth a shot.

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03-28-2013, 09:12 AM
  #213
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Not getting a first for mez.

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Old
03-28-2013, 09:13 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
They could do a lot better than Boucher who just failed miserably in Tampa. Dallas Eakins would be worth a shot.
I think you need to look more carefully at the numbers in TB. They are at the bottom of the league with us but still posted a points differential of +6. They lost a lot of 1 goal games.

I wouldn't mind Dallas Eakins though.

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03-28-2013, 09:21 AM
  #215
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Is Eakins a big reason why the Marlies are pretty good this year?

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03-28-2013, 09:25 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Number 28 View Post
My thoughts:

1) Fire Lavy. Hire Guy Boucher.

2) Do our buyouts now. Briere and Bryzgalov. Bryz on the condition that we can get a Ben Bishop from OTT or pry Bernier from LA.

14.3M in cap space to work with. After buyouts, if traded for Bishop sign him to a 3 year 7.5M deal.

3) Package Meszaros off at the draft for a defensive prospect and a pick. If Steve Eminger can get a 1st, so can Meszaros.

4) Do not resign Fedotenko.

5) Give Gagne a 2 year deal worth 5M. He knows his value is not worth 3.5 anymore.

6) Draft BPA at whatever spot we land. Pray for Jones.

7) Use the money gained from Timonen's contract and resign Giroux to a multi-year deal around 8M.

8) Resign Matt Read. Use Couturier as PMD bait.

9) Our Core:

Simmonds, Giroux, B. Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Talbot, Read
Coburn, Grossman, L.Schenn, PMD

10) In the summer of 2014, go after Dion Phaneuf.

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03-28-2013, 09:25 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Number 28 View Post
I think you need to look more carefully at the numbers in TB. They are at the bottom of the league with us but still posted a points differential of +6. They lost a lot of 1 goal games.
I don't want a coach who specializes in losing close games.

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03-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #218
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Guy Boucher is clueless. No way do I want him coaching this team

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03-28-2013, 09:56 AM
  #219
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I'd give Chief a shot before Boucher

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03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
  #220
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I think Step 1 has to be fix the offense over the defense.

What is most alarming about this season is our inability to generate anything 5v5.

That is why im all in favor of getting Drouin this year if we don't get jones.

Hartnell Giroux Voracek
Simmonds Schenn Drouin
Cousins Laughton Gagne
Z Talbot Rinaldo

Package couturier and read to get the single best young dman you can get weather that is myers or bogosian or etc etc etc.

Myers Mez
Coburn Grossman
Kimmo Schenn

Bryz..... keep bryz for one more year since we have no goalies we can bring up and amnesty him next year.

another possibility is to package read and couturier for rielly and gardnier.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:47 AM
  #221
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The lack of 5 on 5 offense comes mainly from the team's poor play in the defensive and neutral zones. And I don't think we can count on Mezaros for anything any more, let alone being on the first defense pairing.

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Old
03-28-2013, 11:10 AM
  #222
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theres no reason to keep this defensive core together


keep Schenn and Grossmann , fine

but one of Coburn, Meszaros, Kimmo needs to go.



it's not working with this defense anyone. its time for a shakeup.

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Old
03-28-2013, 01:22 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Number 28 View Post
My thoughts:

1) Fire Lavy. Hire Guy Boucher.

2) Do our buyouts now. Briere and Bryzgalov. Bryz on the condition that we can get a Ben Bishop from OTT or pry Bernier from LA.

14.3M in cap space to work with. After buyouts, if traded for Bishop sign him to a 3 year 7.5M deal.

3) Package Meszaros off at the draft for a defensive prospect and a pick. If Steve Eminger can get a 1st, so can Meszaros.

4) Do not resign Fedotenko.

5) Give Gagne a 2 year deal worth 5M. He knows his value is not worth 3.5 anymore.

6) Draft BPA at whatever spot we land. Pray for Jones.

7) Use the money gained from Timonen's contract and resign Giroux to a multi-year deal around 8M.

8) Resign Matt Read. Use Couturier as PMD bait.

9) Our Core:

Simmonds, Giroux, B. Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Talbot, Read
Coburn, Grossman, L.Schenn, PMD

10) In the summer of 2014, go after Dion Phaneuf.

No. Hell no.

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Old
03-28-2013, 01:31 PM
  #224
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Dallas Eakins might be a possible candidate for coaching? I would like to see what he could bring to the table.

Imagine is we get Drouin, Mac or Barkov and don't move Couts. This team would be stacked at forward, and all very young and talented forwards.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #225
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I have a dream:

2013 offseason:

Keep

Forwards:
Giroux, Hartnell, B. Schenn, Simmonds, Voraceck.

Defense:
L. Schenn, Grossman, Timonen, Coburn (because of his NTC if he doesn't waive it)

Buyout Bryz and Briere.

Let Free Agents go.

Trade everybody else for draft picks and a goalie. (Including Coburn if he waives)

Sign UFA LW Damien Brunner from Detroit.

Bring up as many players as we can that are in the farm that we think are ready.

Draft Seth Jones #1.

Play hockey for a year.

2014 offseason

Resign Timonen for cheap, if not...cya later old dog.

Sign the Sedins from UFA status.

Now we really are the city of brotherly love.

Play a year and WIN THE CUP.

The End.


Last edited by deftones1986: 03-28-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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