HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rask-Trying to get a feel for the average Bruins fan on here, please help

View Poll Results: How Many of the Goals Were Rask's Fault Tonight?
1 goal was his fault 41 24.55%
2 goals were his fault 25 14.97%
3 goals were his fault 8 4.79%
4 goals were his fault 1 0.60%
5 goals were his fault 7 4.19%
None of the goals were his fault. Bad luck and big breakdowns on D to fault 85 50.90%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-28-2013, 09:30 AM
  #76
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
I didn't say you were a whiner and I certainly didn't say you were a whiner because you disagreed with me. I said, people who consistently whine in here (and it most certainly happens, you can figure out for yourself whether you fall into that category because I don't know if you do, or do not) about 60 minute efforts shouldn't be ascribing more value to the last 5 minutes of the game. Period. That has nothing to do with disagreeing with me.

And you're wrong, this isn't an opinion based matter. We're judging Rask's play over the course of a game.

If the Bruins lead 1-0 through 55 and he allows a goal. The game goes to OT 1-1.

If the Bruins trail 1-0 through 55 and THEY score a goal. The game game goes to OT 1-1.

Same result. Was Rask MORE clutch because the one goal he allowed happened in the first 5 rather than the last 5? No, it wasn't. You have a more positive emotion attached to that game, so you ascribe more positivity to that performance. That's why, again, emotions are terrible for judging value.
I didn't say you called me a whiner I said your making a sweeping generalization that people who think other then you are whiners. enough I am done it is a rule and it will be enforced.

While I respect the rest of your argument (although I 100% disagree) that part does not belong.


now back to the debate. I can not believe unless you can convince me that save's in OT are the same as saves in the first 5 mins of the game.

I can't believe unless you can convice me that a save in a zero zero game in the first period is the same as a save when you are up by one goal with 10 seconds to go in the game.

Different situations. different pressure. one you have a chance to come back the other you lose period. they are not even remotly the same.

__________________
Love the city, hate the Hab™


BOSTON STRONG!!!
Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:31 AM
  #77
panny2727
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 850
vCash: 500
for what its worth, pittsburgh is the team that practically got swept last year by the team that we swept the year before. the bruins played the two games in pittsburgh like they did against vancouver in games one and two of the finals. hard but not good enough. we still got a great playoff top 6, peverly is still a good piece. merlot is better than ever. are back end when healthy is the best 6 in the league, imo. could they upgrade the backend, sure. I thought Caron played his best game last night. I would love two more pieces like the rest of you. two up front, or one front, one back. all 3 would be better. I say take this to heart, look in the mirror, get some good pieces and stick a finger in cookes face like lapierre.
I noticed bergeron starting to play with a little edge after the whistle last night and i was pleasantly surprised. he was messing with someones helmet in a scrum, like trying to push it over his eyes

panny2727 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:32 AM
  #78
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
Well, first, I hate numbers. I've always been terrible at math.

Stats can be twisted to fit any argument. That's my issue with them -- because they are quantifiable, it's easy to point and say BUT THE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!111 to prove or disprove a point. And that essentially ends the discussion. If you show me a stat that argues for something, I can likely come up with a set of stats that argues the opposite. But because they are numbers, some folks look at them as the end all/be all. There's often more to a performance than stats, and I find there's an overreliance on them when having a discussion.

My opinion isn't based on emotion from the loss last night, or the loss against Toronto. I'm slightly insulted by that.

I agree with you on the bolded.
The bolded is why I feel he's been excellent, and why I think asking him to do more of all people (really Bergeron and Rask are the two players I think people should NOT be asking more of) is unreasonable.

And believe me, I know exactly how numbers can be twisted, but generally it's because people like to grab onto small samples and ascribe full weight. The large sample (his entire career, in which his stats are better than anyone else's) show that he's elite, and though we have things to worry about, he's down there with Bergeron, Chara, and Jacobs turning into a Steinbrenner clone.

MTaylorJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:36 AM
  #79
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
how many times have we heard Brick say that the timing of the save is as important if not more important then the quanity of saves.

a big save in a 6-0 game with 15 seconds to go is not the same as a big save in a 1-0 game with 15 seconds to go. not all saves are created equal.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #80
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
I didn't say you called me a whiner I said your making a sweeping generalization that people who think other then you are whiners. enough I am done it is a rule and it will be enforced.

While I respect the rest of your argument (although I 100% disagree) that part does not belong.


now back to the debate. I can not believe unless you can convince me that save's in OT are the same as saves in the first 5 mins of the game.

I can't believe unless you can convice me that a save in a zero zero game in the first period is the same as a save when you are up by one goal with 10 seconds to go in the game.

Different situations. different pressure. one you have a chance to come back the other you lose period. they are not even remotly the same.
Well except when you don't make that first period save, you turn the pressure over to your teammates, now instead of needing a goal to break the tie, they need one to tie the game again, and another to win it. It's very simple. Even in that worst case scenario, last night, they got a point out of it. And overall despite the fact that people on here believe the team is hemorarhaging points because of his lack of "clutch" saves, they're a thin team who has gotten outstanding performance out of exactly 2, maybe 3 skaters. Rask is a big reason this team is still a contender, not a reason they aren't undefeated or wherever we might expect them to be.

MTaylorJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:41 AM
  #81
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
how many times have we heard Brick say that the timing of the save is as important if not more important then the quanity of saves.

a big save in a 6-0 game with 15 seconds to go is not the same as a big save in a 1-0 game with 15 seconds to go. not all saves are created equal.
I missed a game or two this year. But which one did we win 6-0?

Was it this one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013020221

or this one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013020610

this one?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013022801

offensive juggernauts...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013012901

None of his saves were timely though, right Brick?

MTaylorJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:43 AM
  #82
CDJ
Registered User
 
CDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 10,229
vCash: 500
I would love to help and vote Colt, but apparently quoting Chappelle's Show "Player Hater's Ball" in regards to Iginla can land you in some hot water here and thus I do not have that privilege anymore.

So my vote is ZERO. He is responsible for ZERO GOALS.

CDJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:43 AM
  #83
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Well except when you don't make that first period save, you turn the pressure over to your teammates, now instead of needing a goal to break the tie, they need one to tie the game again, and another to win it. It's very simple. Even in that worst case scenario, last night, they got a point out of it. And overall despite the fact that people on here believe the team is hemorarhaging points because of his lack of "clutch" saves, they're a thin team who has gotten outstanding performance out of exactly 2, maybe 3 skaters. Rask is a big reason this team is still a contender, not a reason they aren't undefeated or wherever we might expect them to be.
ok fair enough point. I for one don't belive the they are hemorarhaging due to Rask at all. however I don't have confidence that Rask has the ability to make the clutch save which has me concerend for the playoffs.

clutch saves make or break a team in the playoffs. Regular season not so much. I agree this team while at the top of the standings for the most part is thin mostly because of players underacheaving. Ference, Horton, Lucic to name a few.

To me your goalie is your most important player. Thomas 100% the most important factor in our cup. Why was he the man because even though he let in a soft goal now and then he had the ability to make the amazing clutch save when the game was on the line. (yes the game on the line to me is when there is not enough time for you to get the goal back if the other team scores very differnt from letting in a soft goal with 55 mins to play.)

now you can go the other model like Pitt and get so much offsense that goalie is an afterthought but in the playoffs I take the better "clutch" goalie over the better offense.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:44 AM
  #84
CDJ
Registered User
 
CDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 10,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
I missed a game or two this year. But which one did we win 6-0?

Was it this one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013020221

or this one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013020610

this one?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013022801

offensive juggernauts...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013012901

None of his saves were timely though, right Brick?
...And you just massacred every Rask haters sole argument.

CDJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:44 AM
  #85
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
I missed a game or two this year. But which one did we win 6-0?

Was it this one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013020221

or this one

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013020610

this one?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013022801

offensive juggernauts...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore...gid=2013012901

None of his saves were timely though, right Brick?
where did I say the Bruins won a game 6-0??? we are talking about the general statement that saves mean different things at different points in the game are we not?

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:46 AM
  #86
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
...And you just massacred every Rask haters sole argument.
again because someone (like myself) does not think Rask has shown the ability to make the clutch save when the game is on the line does not make me a Rask hater.

I like Rask. I LOVE the Bruins. Rask is a Bruin and I want him to be better then Thomas was for us. But what I want and what he has shown are not the same thing.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:50 AM
  #87
CDJ
Registered User
 
CDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 10,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
again because someone (like myself) does not think Rask have shown the ability to make the clutch save when the game is on the line does not make me a Rask hater.

I like Rask. I LOVE the Bruins. Rask is a Bruin and I want him to be better then Thomas was for us. But what I want and what he has shown are not the same thing.
Not necessarily referring to you. More or less the people blaming him for the loss last night.


He is not better than Thomas, but he isn't much worse if he is at all. Numbers are ridiculously similar I believe. Thomas just made those ridiculous saves, but Rask allows less back breaking softies.

Thomas would steal games and lose games, Rask keeps you in EVERY game. Very different goalies, but us as B's fans have been spoiled in net in recent years.

CDJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:51 AM
  #88
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
Not necessarily referring to you. More or less the people blaming him for the loss last night.


He is not better than Thomas, but he isn't much worse if he is at all. Numbers are ridiculously similar I believe. Thomas just made those ridiculous saves, but Rask allows less back breaking softies.

Thomas would steal games and lose games, Rask keeps you in EVERY game. Very different goalies, but us as B's fans have been spoiled in net in recent years.
all good points.

my point is sometimes that one ridiculous save makes up for 10 softies when they don't really matter. Because again I can not be conviced that a save is a save no matter the time and score.

all are different depending on the situation.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:52 AM
  #89
WBC8
Registered User
 
WBC8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Game time, baby
Country: United States
Posts: 39,373
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to WBC8
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
...And you just massacred every Rask haters sole argument.
Until somebody posts the 3rd period collapses of course.

WBC8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:53 AM
  #90
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
Not necessarily referring to you. More or less the people blaming him for the loss last night.


He is not better than Thomas, but he isn't much worse if he is at all. Numbers are ridiculously similar I believe. Thomas just made those ridiculous saves, but Rask allows less back breaking softies.

Thomas would steal games and lose games, Rask keeps you in EVERY game. Very different goalies, but us as B's fans have been spoiled in net in recent years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
all good points.

my point is sometimes that one ridiculous save makes up for 10 softies when they don't really matter. Because again I can not be conviced that a save is a save no matter the time and score.

all are different depending on the situation.
Just ask Luongo.

Great stats great regular season goalie but Clutch. ya not so much.

why because of when he melts down because not all goals are created equal.

Timing is everything.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:54 AM
  #91
Confound
-Vindicated-
 
Confound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 17,690
vCash: 500
Two of the goals against him were fluky as hell. One of of Seids face, then the other off Z's stick.

Confound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #92
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Until somebody posts the 3rd period collapses of course.
See, that's the problem though Lou, the argument isn't collapses vs. whatever, it's do you help the team to more wins. And the answer is a resounding freaking yes.

Rask has never played behind a top 10 offense as a starter. Never. Think that has a little something to do with "collapses" i.e. your team in front of you isn't building on leads.

People ascribe the 34-0-0 thing to Timmy, but what they miss out on is when Timmy was the starter, the Bruins forwards were deep. They could roll 4 lines and pressure, pressure, pressure. Now they're hfboards patience level thin, and they're sitting back constantly trying to protect the leads that Rask has gotten them. The difference isn't the goalie and whether he can fly out of nowhere and save the team from certain doom, it's what is going on in front of them.

MTaylorJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #93
WBC8
Registered User
 
WBC8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Game time, baby
Country: United States
Posts: 39,373
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to WBC8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
Just ask Luongo.

Great stats great regular season goalie but Clutch. ya not so much.

why because of when he melts down because not all goals are created equal.

Timing is everything.
Or Lundqvist, who in the biggest game of his life gave up 3 goals 10 minutes into the first period...then flopped around in OT.

We have seen plenty of big time statistical goalies that cannot hack the pressure of big time hockey...

WBC8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
  #94
WBC8
Registered User
 
WBC8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Game time, baby
Country: United States
Posts: 39,373
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to WBC8
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
See, that's the problem though Lou, the argument isn't collapses vs. whatever, it's do you help the team to more wins. And the answer is a resounding freaking yes.

Rask has never played behind a top 10 offense as a starter. Never. Think that has a little something to do with "collapses" i.e. your team in front of you isn't building on leads.

People ascribe the 34-0-0 thing to Timmy, but what they miss out on is when Timmy was the starter, the Bruins forwards were deep. They could roll 4 lines and pressure, pressure, pressure. Now they're hfboards patience level thin, and they're sitting back constantly trying to protect the leads that Rask has gotten them. The difference isn't the goalie and whether he can fly out of nowhere and save the team from certain doom, it's what is going on in front of them.
Yeah there is far more too it then black or white. I don't have a problem with Rask. I think he will start feeling it..the team in front of him is pretty bad right now when the screws are pressed... I hope they go back to him for Saturday.

WBC8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
  #95
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Or Lundqvist, who in the biggest game of his life gave up 3 goals 10 minutes into the first period...then flopped around in OT.

We have seen plenty of big time statistical goalies that cannot hack the pressure of big time hockey...
exactly and that is my only concern with Tuukka. He has not proven he can do it at the big time in the big game.

And again I stress the fact that a goal in the frist 5 mins of a playoff game is not the same as a goal in the last 5. Not even close.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:01 AM
  #96
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
Just ask Luongo.

Great stats great regular season goalie but Clutch. ya not so much.

why because of when he melts down because not all goals are created equal.

Timing is everything.
So games 1,2, and 5 of that series weren't clutch on his part?

His regular season and playoff numbers....exactly the same.

MTaylorJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:03 AM
  #97
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
So games 1,2, and 5 of that series weren't clutch on his part?

His regular season and playoff numbers....exactly the same.
no they lost in the end and a lot of it was due to Luongo's meltdowns. If he was consistant thoughout and didn't fold under the pressure the Buins would not have won the cup.

We had the goalie that was clutch thoughout they had the one that was clutch one game and folded the next. that is not elite.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:03 AM
  #98
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
exactly and that is my only concern with Tuukka. He has not proven he can do it at the big time in the big game.

And again I stress the fact that a goal in the frist 5 mins of a playoff game is not the same as a goal in the last 5. Not even close.
They aren't same emotionally as a fan because there's a feeling of helplessness that comes with them.

In terms of value, they're virtually identical.

MTaylorJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:04 AM
  #99
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
They aren't same emotionally as a fan because there's a feeling of helplessness that comes with them.

In terms of value, they're virtually identical.
no they are not.

So as a player when you go down by one with 55 to go its the same as if you go down by one with 2 to go.


no they are not equal.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 10:05 AM
  #100
Scotto74
Moderator
Back in Blue!
 
Scotto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kingston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
They aren't same emotionally as a fan because there's a feeling of helplessness that comes with them.

In terms of value, they're virtually identical.
even more dramatic.


a goal 5 mins in give you as a player/team 55 to tie it up.

a goal in OT give's you well nothing you lose.


not equal.

Scotto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.