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Old
03-28-2013, 08:19 AM
  #101
Hobnobs
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
There have been more accomplished Red Wings and some people fan say Howe and Lidstrom were better than Yzerman, but Stevie is the greatest Wing of all time. Just like Iginla will go down as the greatest Flame of all time.
Yzerman is the greatest red wing of all time because he is the one people remembers. I'd say Gordie Howe is the greatest Red Wing of all time without a doubt with Stevie as second in command.

Wonder were Probert would rank tho

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03-28-2013, 08:20 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Iggy is the greatest flame for the very fact he has been the franchises greatest image. when you think Calgary Flames everyones first thought is of Iggy. The way the fans and the city has embraced him, like their own son, Gilmour and Macinnis dont even come close

Iginla is the Calgary Flames,
Actually when ppl says calgary flames my first thought is the Gilmour trade, then Theo Fleury... and obviously the swede in me thinks of Håkan Loob but thats just my bias

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03-28-2013, 08:45 AM
  #103
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Is this a joke?

In all honesty though, I'd gladly take Glencross back in the deal, although he's pretty much untouchable given that he's headed for his third 20+ goal season and only costs $2.5M for the next 2 years after this.

I'd totally take a deal centered around Bouwmeester/Glencross for Quincey/Filppula/++ though. Glencross essentially replaces Filppula's offense at half the price.
You know that most Flames fan consider Hudler to be Calgary's best forward this season (and that's pre-Iginla trade), right?

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Doug Gilmour and Al Macinnis says, "hi!"...
You mean Theoren Fleury and Al MacInnis. Gilmour was not there very long and did not play as well in Calgary as a) he did outside of Calgary, or b) Iginla, Fleury, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Loob, or Mullen to name a few. Given that most of those guys played in Calgary when he did, it's hard to name him as "the best Flame ever" unless you're going with career value, in which case you have to come back to a guy like Sergei Makarov or Brett Hull.

All the Don Cherry kisses and hugs in the world don't make him the best.

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03-28-2013, 09:15 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
What's confusing is why you would want to pick up a defenseman with such a unjustifiably-giant cap hit in the first place, and also why on earth you would re-sign such a player to a deal at the same cap hit.
I dont get this. Did Jay-Bo date your sister or something? Seriously.

How much do #1 defensemen cost in the NHL? Especially #1 defensemen who arent on lifetime contracts? Dmen who eat 30 minutes a night on both the PP and PK, score 40-ish points, skate like the wind and oh, by the way, never miss a frickin' game?

How much do those guys cost, hmm? Because apparently, that very same defensemen I just described shouldnt have a caphit of a paltry $6.7 million.

I dont know your position on Filppula, but I think it would be hilarious if you think he's worth $5 but JayBo isnt worth $6.7. Obviously, the joke only works if thats true, but still.

JayBo has a realistic caphit and for some reason that bothers you. #1 dmen, not Kronwall, but real #1 dmen cost $7+ million in the NHL without a lifetime contract to reduce caphit.

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03-28-2013, 09:45 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
I dont know your position on Filppula, but I think it would be hilarious if you think he's worth $5 but JayBo isnt worth $6.7. Obviously, the joke only works if thats true, but still.
Whatever Filppula ends up getting from Detroit, he'll be worth it according to Crymson. The Red Wings infallible and if you disagree you're not a true fan.

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03-28-2013, 09:50 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
I dont get this. Did Jay-Bo date your sister or something? Seriously.

How much do #1 defensemen cost in the NHL? Especially #1 defensemen who arent on lifetime contracts? Dmen who eat 30 minutes a night on both the PP and PK, score 40-ish points, skate like the wind and oh, by the way, never miss a frickin' game?

How much do those guys cost, hmm? Because apparently, that very same defensemen I just described shouldnt have a caphit of a paltry $6.7 million.

I dont know your position on Filppula, but I think it would be hilarious if you think he's worth $5 but JayBo isnt worth $6.7. Obviously, the joke only works if thats true, but still.

JayBo has a realistic caphit and for some reason that bothers you. #1 dmen, not Kronwall, but real #1 dmen cost $7+ million in the NHL without a lifetime contract to reduce caphit.
At least Filppula has won a cup In 2008 and almost a 2nd one In 2009 and poor Jaybow has yet to taste the playoffs, So theres little comparison there.

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03-28-2013, 09:59 AM
  #107
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Anaheim: Souray $3.67 (Fowler is their #1 on an ELC, his RFA contract is for $4)
Boston: Chara $6.9
Buffalo: Myers $5.5 (lifetime deal)
Calgary: JayBo $6.7
Carolina: Pitkanen/Gleason $4.5/$4 (neither are #1s)
Chicago: Keith $5.5 (lifetime deal...Seabrook makes $5.8 non-lifetime)
Colorado: E.Johnson $3.5 (this is a head scratcher)
CBus: Wiz $5.5 (pffft) JMFJ makes $4.3, also a deal
Dallas: Goligoski $4.6 (iirc, this is his RFA deal)
Detroit: Kronwall $4.75 (great deal)
Edmonton: Whitney $4 (not a #1)
Florida: Campbell $7.1 (ouch)
Los Angeles: Doughty $7 (his RFA holdout deal, he wanted more and will get it)
Minnesota: Suter $7.5 (lifetime deal and worth every single penny)
Montreal: Markov $5.75 (great deal) with Subban wanting the world in 2 years
Nashville: Weber $7.8 (lifetime deal and worth every penny)
New Jersey: Volchenkov $4.25 (not a #1)
NY Islanders: Visnovsky $5.6 (not NYI deal) and Streit $4.1 (fair deal)
NY Rangers: Staal $3.75 (RFA deal) Girardi $3.3 (RFA) Del Zotto $2.55 (RFA)
Ottawa: Karlsson $6.5 (lifetime deal and worth every penny)
Philly: Timonen $6.3 (pfffft)
Phoenix: Yandle $5.25 (RFA...had a short bridge deal in there to prove he was worth it)
Pittsburgh: Martin $5 (good deal this year) Letang @ $3.5 is going to get the moon
San Jose: Boyle $6.667 (fair deal)
St Louis: Jackman $3.166 (fair deal) but Petro is on ELC
Tampa: Carle $5.5 (pfft) also Hedman $4 (RFA deal)
Toronto: Phaneuf $6.5 (fair deal)
Vancouver: Too many. 4 guys range from $4.5 - $5 with the only bad deal being Ballard @ $4.2
Washington: Green $6.08 (idk about this...could be bad deal, dont watch Washington)
Winnipeg: Byfuglien $5.2 (fair deal) and Enstrom's new deal is $5.75 (fair deal)

That is the list of #1's and their salary.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
At least Filppula has won a cup In 2008 and almost a 2nd one In 2009 and poor Jaybow has yet to taste the playoffs, So theres little comparison there.
Your reasoning is so incredibly bad, your taken position so indefensible, youre not worth arguing with.

Horrible logic, nuff said.

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03-28-2013, 10:22 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Your reasoning is so incredibly bad, your taken position so indefensible, youre not worth arguing with.

Horrible logic, nuff said.
Agreed. That's like saying LeBron sucked at basketball when he played in Cleveland just because he didn't win it all there. You can be a good player on a crappy team.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:31 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Anaheim: Souray $3.67 (Fowler is their #1 on an ELC, his RFA contract is for $4)
Boston: Chara $6.9
Buffalo: Myers $5.5 (lifetime deal)
Calgary: JayBo $6.7
Carolina: Pitkanen/Gleason $4.5/$4 (neither are #1s)
Chicago: Keith $5.5 (lifetime deal...Seabrook makes $5.8 non-lifetime)
Colorado: E.Johnson $3.5 (this is a head scratcher)
CBus: Wiz $5.5 (pffft) JMFJ makes $4.3, also a deal
Dallas: Goligoski $4.6 (iirc, this is his RFA deal)
Detroit: Kronwall $4.75 (great deal)
Edmonton: Whitney $4 (not a #1)
Florida: Campbell $7.1 (ouch)
Los Angeles: Doughty $7 (his RFA holdout deal, he wanted more and will get it)
Minnesota: Suter $7.5 (lifetime deal and worth every single penny)
Montreal: Markov $5.75 (great deal) with Subban wanting the world in 2 years
Nashville: Weber $7.8 (lifetime deal and worth every penny)
New Jersey: Volchenkov $4.25 (not a #1)
NY Islanders: Visnovsky $5.6 (not NYI deal) and Streit $4.1 (fair deal)
NY Rangers: Staal $3.75 (RFA deal) Girardi $3.3 (RFA) Del Zotto $2.55 (RFA)
Ottawa: Karlsson $6.5 (lifetime deal and worth every penny)
Philly: Timonen $6.3 (pfffft)
Phoenix: Yandle $5.25 (RFA...had a short bridge deal in there to prove he was worth it)
Pittsburgh: Martin $5 (good deal this year) Letang @ $3.5 is going to get the moon
San Jose: Boyle $6.667 (fair deal)
St Louis: Jackman $3.166 (fair deal) but Petro is on ELC
Tampa: Carle $5.5 (pfft) also Hedman $4 (RFA deal)
Toronto: Phaneuf $6.5 (fair deal)
Vancouver: Too many. 4 guys range from $4.5 - $5 with the only bad deal being Ballard @ $4.2
Washington: Green $6.08 (idk about this...could be bad deal, dont watch Washington)
Winnipeg: Byfuglien $5.2 (fair deal) and Enstrom's new deal is $5.75 (fair deal)

That is the list of #1's and their salary.
Bolded aren't #1s on their team. Beauch in Ana. Schultz or Petry in Edm, prob. Petry. OEL in Phoenix and maybe Greene in NJ.

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Old
03-28-2013, 11:10 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
You mean Theoren Fleury and Al MacInnis. Gilmour was not there very long and did not play as well in Calgary as a) he did outside of Calgary, or b) Iginla, Fleury, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Loob, or Mullen to name a few. Given that most of those guys played in Calgary when he did, it's hard to name him as "the best Flame ever" unless you're going with career value, in which case you have to come back to a guy like Sergei Makarov or Brett Hull.

All the Don Cherry kisses and hugs in the world don't make him the best.
Well you could argue that Flames didnt win a cup until they aquired Gilmour and I already said Loob AND Fleury. Those two were just the first two names that popped into my head. Could add Joe Nieuwendyk, Gary Roberts and Joel Otto to that list aswell.

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03-28-2013, 11:16 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Anaheim: Souray $3.67 (Fowler is their #1 on an ELC, his RFA contract is for $4)
Boston: Chara $6.9
Buffalo: Myers $5.5 (lifetime deal)
Calgary: JayBo $6.7
Carolina: Pitkanen/Gleason $4.5/$4 (neither are #1s)
Chicago: Keith $5.5 (lifetime deal...Seabrook makes $5.8 non-lifetime)
Colorado: E.Johnson $3.5 (this is a head scratcher)
CBus: Wiz $5.5 (pffft) JMFJ makes $4.3, also a deal
Dallas: Goligoski $4.6 (iirc, this is his RFA deal)
Detroit: Kronwall $4.75 (great deal)
Edmonton: Whitney $4 (not a #1)
Florida: Campbell $7.1 (ouch)
Los Angeles: Doughty $7 (his RFA holdout deal, he wanted more and will get it)
Minnesota: Suter $7.5 (lifetime deal and worth every single penny)
Montreal: Markov $5.75 (great deal) with Subban wanting the world in 2 years
Nashville: Weber $7.8 (lifetime deal and worth every penny)
New Jersey: Volchenkov $4.25 (not a #1)
NY Islanders: Visnovsky $5.6 (not NYI deal) and Streit $4.1 (fair deal)
NY Rangers: Staal $3.75 (RFA deal) Girardi $3.3 (RFA) Del Zotto $2.55 (RFA)
Ottawa: Karlsson $6.5 (lifetime deal and worth every penny)
Philly: Timonen $6.3 (pfffft)
Phoenix: Yandle $5.25 (RFA...had a short bridge deal in there to prove he was worth it)
Pittsburgh: Martin $5 (good deal this year) Letang @ $3.5 is going to get the moon
San Jose: Boyle $6.667 (fair deal)
St Louis: Jackman $3.166 (fair deal) but Petro is on ELC
Tampa: Carle $5.5 (pfft) also Hedman $4 (RFA deal)
Toronto: Phaneuf $6.5 (fair deal)
Vancouver: Too many. 4 guys range from $4.5 - $5 with the only bad deal being Ballard @ $4.2
Washington: Green $6.08 (idk about this...could be bad deal, dont watch Washington)
Winnipeg: Byfuglien $5.2 (fair deal) and Enstrom's new deal is $5.75 (fair deal)

That is the list of #1's and their salary.
But every team has a #1 dman, that doesn't mean a #1 on one team isn't really just a #2/3/4 being forced up the depth chart. I'll use baseball as an example, every team has an ace, the teams best pitcher, but not every team has a #1 pitcher and some teams may have 2 #1s, and many times you will see that some teams have a #2/3/4 guy forced up because they have nothing else. Look at the Jays, Romero was their Ace the past 2 years, though only at the beginning of last year, that was mainly because they didn't have a pitcher that was as consistent or good enough to pass him. Romero at the time was a good #3 and now he's down in A ball.

The point is that not all #1s are "true" #1s and they don't all cost an arm and a leg to get. however sometimes the offensive/defensive side of the game is so much ahead of the rest of the league that they can be considered a "true #1". Kronwall imo is not a true #1, he needs somebody defensively minded to cover for his bonehead plays, but the value he brings to this team is greater then anyone else so it means he is the defacto #1.

A true #1 shouldn't need someone to cover for them, they should be good on the PP & able to play on the PK, they should be able to log 25+ minutes of ice team if need be and be able to do it all night in night out. It doesn't mean they can't make an odd mistake every now and then or have an off night it just means that they can't be doing it every 3rd or 4th night.

For me the only true #1s are: OEL, Pietrangelo, Chara, Markov, Keith, Suter, Karlsson, Enstrom, Weber & Letang.

Everyone else is really either too young, don't play the PK enough, they don't produce enough offence or they make a few too many mistakes per game too be considered "true #1s".

Everyone else are #2s, some could be considered Elite/above average #2s and they're really close to getting to #1 status but they're not there yet. Some of them being Doughty, Subban, Kronwall, Seabrock, Johnson & Stall/McDonagh, I might be forgetting some others.

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Old
03-28-2013, 11:56 AM
  #113
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Holy crap, way too many people are interested in Bouwmeester for my liking. Guy has declined every year, 0 playoff experience, monster cap hit at the expense of players who are young, with small cap hits, and high upside? I'm not saying our prospects are untouchable, but for Bouwmeester? Bouwmeester!? God damn.

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03-28-2013, 12:37 PM
  #114
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Holy crap, way too many people are interested in Bouwmeester for my liking. Guy has declined every year, 0 playoff experience, monster cap hit at the expense of players who are young, with small cap hits, and high upside? I'm not saying our prospects are untouchable, but for Bouwmeester? Bouwmeester!? God damn.
what player or prospect do we have that is better then bouwmeester on the backend that you or anyone can say with relative certainty?

the guy is not lidstrom, nobody is and nobody EVER will be EVER again in a DRW uniform(well maybe in the year 2050) but he does address so much of what we lost wihen Lidstrom left and more importantly, allows the other guys to play in their more suitable rotation.

what he is, is a guy who can and more importantly DOES play 27plus mins a night, in all apsects of the game against the leagues top players(their was recently an article with stats that showed jaybo played more mins against the leagues top players then any other player in the league). he does so on arguably the worst team in the league.

furthermore he is a strong, smooth skater who plays more of a typical red wing style of game. He can run our #1 pp unit more effectively then smith or kronwall can, not just this year but next year, the year after and the year after that. On the DRW he is more then capable of putting up 40plus pts in each of the next 3-5 seasons(which is better then kronwall ever has)

He is also the leagues iron man, never gets hurt

Yah his cap hit vs expected offensive production i suppose blows but then again the chances he demands 7 million a season on his next year are slim to none and will likely sign for less.

He is almost everything this team needs, right age, right style of player, etc. So long as the cost isnt out of this world(which it wont be because it never ever is) then he makes alot of sense

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03-28-2013, 12:59 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
I am gonna fix that

Jaybo-Kronwall
Smith-Ericsson
Kindl-Quincey/white/cc
Dekeyser

jaybo is and would be our #1 dman, the guy who plays the most game in and game out, a guy who we could see easily play 26 plus mins a night
Jaybo and Kronwall both play on the same side of the ice, and Kronwall is the better player of the 2, our assistant captain and is homegrown.

Bouwmeester would get PK time, PP time and similar minutes to Kronwall but he'd be on the 2nd pairing.

Him and Kronwall together would be a gong show, they'd provide lots of offence, but defensively they'd be one of the worst duos in the league.

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03-28-2013, 01:11 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
what player or prospect do we have that is better then bouwmeester on the backend that you or anyone can say with relative certainty?

the guy is not lidstrom, nobody is and nobody EVER will be EVER again in a DRW uniform(well maybe in the year 2050) but he does address so much of what we lost wihen Lidstrom left and more importantly, allows the other guys to play in their more suitable rotation.

what he is, is a guy who can and more importantly DOES play 27plus mins a night, in all apsects of the game against the leagues top players(their was recently an article with stats that showed jaybo played more mins against the leagues top players then any other player in the league). he does so on arguably the worst team in the league.

furthermore he is a strong, smooth skater who plays more of a typical red wing style of game. He can run our #1 pp unit more effectively then smith or kronwall can, not just this year but next year, the year after and the year after that. On the DRW he is more then capable of putting up 40plus pts in each of the next 3-5 seasons(which is better then kronwall ever has)

He is also the leagues iron man, never gets hurt

Yah his cap hit vs expected offensive production i suppose blows but then again the chances he demands 7 million a season on his next year are slim to none and will likely sign for less.

He is almost everything this team needs, right age, right style of player, etc. So long as the cost isnt out of this world(which it wont be because it never ever is) then he makes alot of sense
I think we have enough offense on our D-line. We could use a really solid, physical RH defenseman. $11 million tied up between Kronwall and J-bo would be rough.

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03-28-2013, 01:12 PM
  #117
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I can't agree Kronwall is better than JayBo

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03-28-2013, 01:20 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
I can't agree Kronwall is better than JayBo

Put on your homer glasses and you will see it.

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03-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #119
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I think we have enough offense on our D-line. We could use a really solid, physical RH defenseman. $11 million tied up between Kronwall and J-bo would be rough.
a physical shut down dman would be nice but they're almost always so much easier to find through free agency or the waiver wire then top pairing 30 minute a night dmen

a physical stay-at home dmen is as common as a 4th line grinder

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03-28-2013, 01:30 PM
  #120
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a physical shut down dman would be nice but they're almost always so much easier to find through free agency or the waiver wire then top pairing 30 minute a night dmen

a physical stay-at home dmen is as common as a 4th line grinder
Not a good one.

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03-28-2013, 01:31 PM
  #121
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Not a good one.
LA got Scuderi how?

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03-28-2013, 01:32 PM
  #122
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Put on your homer glasses and you will see it.
It doesn't require homer glasses at all...

Neither are good defensively so their offensive production is really all you can compare them by.

You'd have to go back 6 or 7 years to find a year where Bouwmeester out performed Kronwall.

Bouwmeester is a better skater, and is more durable, but Kronwall has put up more points than him consistently over the past 5 or 6 years.

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03-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
It doesn't require homer glasses at all...

Neither are good defensively so their offensive production is really all you can compare them by.

You'd have to go back 6 or 7 years to find a year where Bouwmeester out performed Kronwall.

Bouwmeester is a better skater, and is more durable, but Kronwall has put up more points than him consistently over the past 5 or 6 years.
JBow is good defensively. Esp. if he would play behind two Selke caliber C's in Z and Dats.

Kronwall has had more talent around him every year they have been on the league.

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03-28-2013, 01:43 PM
  #124
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Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 3 min
#Flames Jay Bouwmeester admits he and team have talked about possibility of a trade. Hearing as many as 6 teams interested in him.

Re-tweeted by Kuklas korner. Not sure how reliable.

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03-28-2013, 02:08 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
JBow is good defensively. Esp. if he would play behind two Selke caliber C's in Z and Dats.

Kronwall has had more talent around him every year they have been on the league.
Jbow is not good defensively and neither is Kronwall. If you want to argue he'd be BETTER defensively with the Wings I'll give you that. I'd even concede he might be a slight upgrade defensively on Kronwall playing on the Wings roster (that would be close IMO though)

Someone who is good defensively doesn't need Selke caliber forwards to be a + player.

Bouwmeester is consistently in the - and routinely is among the league leaders in goals against while on the ice.

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