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Old
03-27-2013, 06:51 PM
  #126
massivegoonery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Dave Bolland isn't great during the regular season this isn't new. Bolland is a warrior during the play-offs. I would keep him for that very reason.
Frolik too, then?

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03-27-2013, 07:21 PM
  #127
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Don't be so sure. Bolland's defensive game has been good and it allows his linemates to take some chances. There is more to this game than points on the scoreboard. Kane's value is much less if ops score as much or more than he does (when he's on the ice). Take Bolland away and Kane loses some of that pizzaz that comes with taking chances, making him less effective on offense.
I have seen countless times when Bolly was supposed to be 3rd guy high and he steps up and an odd man rush goes the other way. He has not played well in any phase.

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03-27-2013, 07:59 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I have seen countless times when Bolly was supposed to be 3rd guy high and he steps up and an odd man rush goes the other way. He has not played well in any phase.
He has played like a 3rd line C on the 2nd line. Slightly out of place, but not awful. He has some good games (ie/last night), and a lot of bad games. When he's on his game, usually near the end of the season/playoffs, he is great. Just because he isnt on the score sheet doesn't mean he isn't contributing. He's been completely average, thats it.

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03-27-2013, 08:39 PM
  #129
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I have seen countless times when Bolly was supposed to be 3rd guy high and he steps up and an odd man rush goes the other way. He has not played well in any phase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
He has played like a 3rd line C on the 2nd line. Slightly out of place, but not awful. He has some good games (ie/last night), and a lot of bad games. When he's on his game, usually near the end of the season/playoffs, he is great. Just because he isnt on the score sheet doesn't mean he isn't contributing. He's been completely average, thats it.
That's not how a 3C plays, he's been awful. Why do you feel the need to apologize or make excuses for his play. We all can see it for ourselves. Not scoring and the only forward who is minus.

Average? I think not.

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03-28-2013, 01:37 AM
  #130
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Nobody is saying get rid of him now. In the offseason, it might be a good idea to trade him.

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03-28-2013, 07:50 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I have seen countless times when Bolly was supposed to be 3rd guy high and he steps up and an odd man rush goes the other way. He has not played well in any phase.
Well sure, but selective watching on your part as per usual when it comes to Bolland. How many times have you seen Kane take risks this year and get caught with Bolland watching his back? Probably never for you, but I have seen it numerous times.

For someone who claims to watch the game within the game, you should know that Bolland plays the type of game that goes unsung, until he steps up and scores a shorty in the playoffs and has normally timid ops players taking cheap shots in frustration. I think Q's assessment of his play is pretty much right on the money.

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03-28-2013, 07:58 AM
  #132
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Well sure, but selective watching on your part as per usual when it comes to Bolland. How many times have you seen Kane take risks this year and get caught with Bolland watching his back? Probably never for you, but I have seen it numerous times.

For someone who claims to watch the game within the game, you should know that Bolland plays the type of game that goes unsung, until he steps up and scores a shorty in the playoffs and has normally timid ops players taking cheap shots in frustration. I think Q's assessment of his play is pretty much right on the money.
Well let's see if the stats support what I've seen or what you've seen. Kane positive in takeaway/giveaway dept. Bolland negative. Kane scoring, big time. Bolland invisible. Kane +/- positive. Bolland minus.

Actually who is supporting whom on that line?

Why Bolland isn't scoring? Amen choir: he focuses on being responsible on D.

Why is Bolland minus? Amen choir: he's just unlucky with line changes or the stat plain sucks.

Why is Bolland bad at the dot? Amen choir: well he's always been bad at the dot.

Why is Bolland playing poorly? Amen choir: he's hurt, has bad linemates, has good linemates, is disinterested in regular season. All of the above, mix and match.

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03-28-2013, 08:39 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Nobody is saying get rid of him now. In the offseason, it might be a good idea to trade him.
But since he is the worst hockey player ever as many have seemed to suggest lately who in their right mind wants him. We should waive him and when inevitably no one picks him up buy him out and wish him the best in Europe because he will never play in the NHL again.

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03-28-2013, 09:37 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Well let's see if the stats support what I've seen or what you've seen. Kane positive in takeaway/giveaway dept. Bolland negative. Kane scoring, big time. Bolland invisible. Kane +/- positive. Bolland minus.
Are you trying to tell me that there is a reliable statistic to quantify defensive contribution? Because I would love to hear it. But if you are going to use statistics, you may actually want to get it right. Bolland is not negative in the giveaway/takeaway department. And his +/- is worse because he gets relied on far more than Kane in defensive situations. Its not rocket science.

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Why Bolland isn't scoring? Amen choir: he focuses on being responsible on D.
I don't think many of us that don't want Bolland moved for a bag of pucks are making excuses for him not scoring. He is not playing particularly well offensively, there is no denying that. What we are arguing is that goalscoring is not an issue for this team, and that maybe his defensive play is allowing others, namely Kane, to thrive offensively. People, BWC in particular, are making this issue out to be a much bigger problem than it actually is. We lose a couple games with 2 of our top 4 forwards out and all of a sudden we have to make some drastic changes.

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Why is Bolland minus? Amen choir: he's just unlucky with line changes or the stat plain sucks.
The stat does suck because it doesn't take into account the quality of competition the player is playing against or the situations the player is being put in. Bolland is relied upon in defensive situations much more than Kane is.

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Why is Bolland bad at the dot? Amen choir: well he's always been bad at the dot.
No argument here

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Why is Bolland playing poorly? Amen choir: he's hurt, has bad linemates, has good linemates, is disinterested in regular season. All of the above, mix and match.
Again, I am not making excuses for Bolland's play. I agree with Q that Bolland has just been "OK". Many on here are significantly overblowing how bad he has been.

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03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
  #135
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At the very least, his play warrants him spending some time on the fourth line or possibly even a healthy scratch for a few games to wake him up.

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03-28-2013, 10:08 AM
  #136
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
And his +/- is worse because he gets relied on far more than Kane in defensive situations. Its not rocket science.





Hmm, Bolly must be the only guy on the ice in those situations based on your interpretation of the stats.

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03-28-2013, 10:17 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Hmm, Bolly must be the only guy on the ice in those situations based on your interpretation of the stats.
You were comparing Bolland's +/- to Kane's. I pointed out that Bolland is relied on far more than Kane in defensive situations. Do you deny that? Or are you too busy picking out isolated statements to ridicule that you can not actually debate intelligently?

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03-28-2013, 10:25 AM
  #138
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
You were comparing Bolland's +/- to Kane's. I pointed out that Bolland is relied on far more than Kane in defensive situations. Do you deny that? Or are you too busy picking out isolated statements to ridicule that you can not actually debate intelligently?
He was compared to his linemates numbers, how unreasonable.

Who else is out there with Bolly on the tough defensive assignments? And what are their +/- numbers. It paints a clear picture.

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03-28-2013, 10:31 AM
  #139
massivegoonery
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
But since he is the worst hockey player ever as many have seemed to suggest lately who in their right mind wants him. We should waive him and when inevitably no one picks him up buy him out and wish him the best in Europe because he will never play in the NHL again.
Works for me.

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03-28-2013, 10:43 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
He was compared to his linemates numbers, how unreasonable.

Who else is out there with Bolly on the tough defensive assignments? And what are their +/- numbers. It paints a clear picture.
Yeah, Bolland/Hayes/Sharp/Kane is the worst line we have (and the only negative line) in terms of shots against vs. shots for (on ice corsi). It's ridiculous that an offensive catalyst like Kane as well as a sniper such as Sharp are on the ice for more shots against than they produce. Our 2C needs to help keep Kane/Sharp in the offensive zone where they belong.

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03-28-2013, 10:58 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
Yeah, Bolland/Hayes/Sharp/Kane is the worst line we have (and the only negative line) in terms of shots against vs. shots for (on ice corsi). It's ridiculous that an offensive catalyst like Kane as well as a sniper such as Sharp are on the ice for more shots against than they produce. Our 2C needs to help keep Kane/Sharp in the offensive zone where they belong.
So they already give up a ton of shots so lets give them a defensive sieve and allow more?

I love the idea to that they would just keep the puck in the offensive zone at all times and never have to play defense.

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03-28-2013, 12:05 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
So they already give up a ton of shots so lets give them a defensive sieve and allow more?

I love the idea to that they would just keep the puck in the offensive zone at all times and never have to play defense.
Actually, that's how the best FORWARDS work, they're good at entering the zone, great on the cycle, and great at retrieving or stealing the puck in the neutral zone. Giving up on the plays, being out of place, and bobbling the puck like Bolland has been all season because he's OK with running back and playing defense isn't the mindset of a responsible second line center. So, yes, because you repeat the HF echo chamber whining about how Pirri can't play D you completely ignore the fact that he's good with puck management, on the boards, on the cycle, in the neutral zone, and doesn't give up on plays in the offensive zone. All of which create more opportunities FOR than against.

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03-28-2013, 12:52 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
He was compared to his linemates numbers, how unreasonable.
I never said it was unreasonable, in fact I was answering to that comparison specifically. Again, are you honestly saying that Bolland isn't depended on more defensively than Kane? You haven't actually answered that, you just keep sidestepping it with emoticons. Kane and Bolland play together for the most part. However, Bolland also is put out there in defensive situations, whereas Kane is not. Conversely, Kane is put out there in offensive situations more than Bolland. Those differences help explain how two players on the same line can have different +/- stats. Its not that difficult to comprehend.

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Who else is out there with Bolly on the tough defensive assignments? And what are their +/- numbers. It paints a clear picture.
Kruger, Frolik, Toews etc.. all play in those situations. The difference is that Bolland is also out there against the opponents top line on his regular shift, in addition to those defensive situations.

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03-28-2013, 01:08 PM
  #144
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
I never said it was unreasonable, in fact I was answering to that comparison specifically. Again, are you honestly saying that Bolland isn't depended on more defensively than Kane? You haven't actually answered that, you just keep sidestepping it with emoticons. Kane and Bolland play together for the most part. However, Bolland also is put out there in defensive situations, whereas Kane is not. Conversely, Kane is put out there in offensive situations more than Bolland. Those differences help explain how two players on the same line can have different +/- stats. Its not that difficult to comprehend.



Kruger, Frolik, Toews etc.. all play in those situations. The difference is that Bolland is also out there against the opponents top line on his regular shift, in addition to those defensive situations.
Bolland is depended on more than Kane. Fact. Bolland is not playing well defensively. Fact.

Kruger, Fro, Toews...etc play the tough minutes too, how are their +/- stats? Apparently for Bolland to be minus when compared to ALL his teammates, his teammates must be minus when on the ice with Bolly, yet + when away from Bolly.

When exactly is Kane putting up the big +? Away from Bolly?

I also thought that Q was doing very little line matching this season and rolling 4 lines? I do not see any significant time where Bolland has played w/o Kane on his line, even strength.

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03-28-2013, 01:37 PM
  #145
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Bolland is what he is. Inconsistent offensive. Steps his game up in the Playoffs and a great role player. Just ask Joe Thornton and Henrik Sedin.

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03-28-2013, 01:54 PM
  #146
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Bolland is what he is. Inconsistent offensive. Steps his game up in the Playoffs and a great role player. Just ask Joe Thornton and Henrik Sedin.
We've had a bunch of players like that, Bolland and Frolik are the only two that haven't been traded yet.

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03-28-2013, 02:07 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Bolland is depended on more than Kane. Fact. Bolland is not playing well defensively. Fact.

Kruger, Fro, Toews...etc play the tough minutes too, how are their +/- stats? Apparently for Bolland to be minus when compared to ALL his teammates, his teammates must be minus when on the ice with Bolly, yet + when away from Bolly.

When exactly is Kane putting up the big +? Away from Bolly?

I also thought that Q was doing very little line matching this season and rolling 4 lines? I do not see any significant time where Bolland has played w/o Kane on his line, even strength.
Kruger and Fro do not play tough minutes at ES, where +/- applies.

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03-28-2013, 02:12 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
We've had a bunch of players like that, Bolland and Frolik are the only two that haven't been traded yet.
With our center depth what it is, trading Bolland is stupid.

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03-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #149
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Kruger and Fro do not play tough minutes at ES, where +/- applies.
So who is playing tough ES minutes with Bolly? And where are their +/- numbers?

I don't see any players with +/- similar to #36.

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03-28-2013, 02:16 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
So who is playing tough ES minutes with Bolly? And where are their +/- numbers?

I don't see any players with +/- similar to #36.
Kane and Sharp/Hayes.

Who gives a **** about +/-?

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