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So who is the next coach?

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Old
12-23-2003, 03:34 PM
  #51
HOZ
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Originally Posted by LawnDemon

teams with less talent are proving time and time again that they can be more consistent AND ice a better powerplay AND and kill penalties. and yet you somehow deign to blame the players? somehow the entire oilers team is made up of slackers and morons? oates hasn't improved the PP because he's too old? not because the coaching staff puts him in front of the net (lots of passing lanes there) and continues to try and set up the SAME DAMN "shot from the point play" EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

look out the window dawgbone - that's your common sense flying away.

my solution, since you asked, is for lowe to step up in place of macT. remind the players (and fans) that oilers hockey CAN include some semblance of structure. winning is EVERYTHING - and this team could be top 6 in the West with a system (any system).

edit: i should point out that i don't think lowe could get the team into the playoffs - or even improve them that much. i want him to step up so he can get a better feel for what the team needs behind the bench post cba. the best way to learn something is to try and do it.
Can you name another team which has had these things done to it and are playing better than the Oilers?

Lose their #1 centre. Lose their #1 defenseman. Lose their #1 penalty killer. Lose their #1 goalie (technically).

Can you name one team?

I can think of one team. But they made three trades to rectify the problem. Oilers can't afford that, unfortunately.

Our special teams suck. No one will argue that. But who is the biggest and best PK'er on any team? Check on my list to see who we lost. Trust me if Salo was playing for NJ they wouldn't be killing 90% of their penalties.

PP: Of the 2 special teams is the least important. If you can't kill them you are toast and if you have a good PP, at best even.

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12-23-2003, 05:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HOZ
Can you name another team which has had these things done to it and are playing better than the Oilers?

Lose their #1 centre. Lose their #1 defenseman. Lose their #1 penalty killer. Lose their #1 goalie (technically).

Can you name one team?

I can think of one team. But they made three trades to rectify the problem. Oilers can't afford that, unfortunately.

Our special teams suck. No one will argue that. But who is the biggest and best PK'er on any team? Check on my list to see who we lost. Trust me if Salo was playing for NJ they wouldn't be killing 90% of their penalties.

PP: Of the 2 special teams is the least important. If you can't kill them you are toast and if you have a good PP, at best even.
Well I really would say LAK have had it worse, but I see your point.

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12-23-2003, 07:30 PM
  #53
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sorry dawgbone have to disagree on one point, the effort is not there for a full sixty minutes. during tonights game that was very obvious, it was not until halfway through the second period that this team came alive.
lovely hoz, maybe you explain to the rest of us who should be traded or dumped. instead of your meaningless retort, perhaps you could explain what solution you have. trade most of the team,banish players to the minors and lose them through waivers. yes i would agree some of our players are stinking out the joint, however the coaches are as much to blame as well. and we all know which will come first, the coach is usually history. not saying this is going to happen here however i believe we are beginning to see the end of a once proud organization. we are a laughingstock and a joke.

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Old
12-23-2003, 07:45 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOZ
Can you name another team which has had these things done to it and are playing better than the Oilers?

Lose their #1 centre. Lose their #1 defenseman. Lose their #1 penalty killer. Lose their #1 goalie (technically).

Can you name one team?

I can think of one team. But they made three trades to rectify the problem. Oilers can't afford that, unfortunately.

Our special teams suck. No one will argue that. But who is the biggest and best PK'er on any team? Check on my list to see who we lost. Trust me if Salo was playing for NJ they wouldn't be killing 90% of their penalties.

PP: Of the 2 special teams is the least important. If you can't kill them you are toast and if you have a good PP, at best even.
you and Hockey Jesus act like the oilers haven't gotten anything in return for these lost commodities (dvorak, isbister, torres, cross) or haven't developed anything to replace them (bergeron, stoll, reasoner, hemsky). teams change - all around the NHL lineups are modified. the coaching staff is responsible for using new commodities in the best possible way (like playing isbsiter 5 minutes a game and putting cross on the powerplay - wait, those are stupid decisions made by our own coaching staff)...

sure, it's easier to get consistency from players who have played together for a long time. hmmm... by that logic wouldn't it make sense to put some lines together and let them develop some chemistry? it occurs to me that juggling the lines before every game and by the midway point of the second might just be a bit counter intuitive to that theory...

and last time i looked conklin was playing pretty good in net - no superstar but CONSISTENTLY better than salo. is it conklin that decides to start salo? no - it's the coaching staff.

last time i looked isbister plays pretty damn good hockey when given icetime. is it brad that says "play horcoff on the powerplay"? no - it's the buffoons behind the bench.

last time i looked teams like minny, nashville, AND CALGARY have better pk and pp numbers than the oilers with MUCH less talent. prehaps it's because they don't try the exact same play (shot from the center point) every freakin powerplay? is it the players that say "we should use the same predictable play every man advantage"? no - it's the brilliant strategists running the team.

yes, everyone will agree with you when you say the players make mistakes. oddly enough players on ALL the NHL teams make mistakes. unfortunately, when the coaching staff puts you in a position to fail then it becomes inevitable.

if you think for a minute that Barry Trotz or Darryl Sutter wouldn't have the oilers well above .500 hockey you're nuts - or you're just arguing to get on Hockey Jesus' good side.

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Old
12-23-2003, 08:21 PM
  #55
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you and Hockey Jesus
Name calling doesn't make you look smarter. Just a smart ass. If you can't handle us disagreeing with you, grow up.


Quote:
you and Hockey Jesus act like the oilers haven't gotten anything in return for these lost commodities (dvorak, isbister, torres, cross) or haven't developed anything to replace them (bergeron, stoll, reasoner, hemsky).
And you are trying your hardest to believe that Isbister, Hemsky,Torres and such are already NHL veterans and that all that is needed is them to be inserted at the right spot at the right time. That somehow Niiminaa for Isbister and Torres didn't make the Oilers worse in the short term. That Niiminaa's 30+ minutes will easily be replaced by the right coaching decision. That the youngsters are going to take a while before they can learn this game and avoid these holes they fall into.

You are also trying very hard to believe that Conklin is really a #1 goalie that can carry a workload of 70 plus games. He is playing better than Salo, no argument. But is he better than Salo at the top of his game? You can't honestly say yes, can you?

Quote:
teams change - all around the NHL lineups are modified. the coaching staff is responsible for using new commodities in the best possible way (like playing isbsiter 5 minutes a game and putting cross on the powerplay - wait, those are stupid decisions made by our own coaching staff)...
Colorado adds Selanne and Kariya. Who did we add? Colorado's coach must be a genious. Dallas dropped 2 of their top defenders. Look at them now. Coach must be a moron.

Any team that drops three of their top players will fall. Only fools can expect the new guys to pick up all of the slack...unless you are adding stars. Rookies can't. Not unles they are superstars in waiting. And even then there is a short step back

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Old
12-23-2003, 09:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HOZ
Name calling doesn't make you look smarter. Just a smart ass. If you can't handle us disagreeing with you, grow up.

If you ever stop with those LD and g2k, I'll be downright angry. Keep the quick shots comin!

Any more votes for me after tonight's performance??

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Old
12-24-2003, 07:08 AM
  #57
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I really don't want to get in the crossfire here but I thought I would point out a comment Sid Smith touched on last night during the post game show.

One of Mac-t's concerns during his "holdout" before the season was that he would be given a chance to work this young team HIS way. Without interference from above every time there was a struggle.

He's got rope by the sounds of it..

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Old
12-24-2003, 07:10 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Obsessed
He's got rope by the sounds of it..
Enough to make a nooce?

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12-24-2003, 08:50 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Obsessed
I really don't want to get in the crossfire here but I thought I would point out a comment Sid Smith touched on last night during the post game show.

One of Mac-t's concerns during his "holdout" before the season was that he would be given a chance to work this young team HIS way. Without interference from above every time there was a struggle.

He's got rope by the sounds of it..
Thanks Obsessed, I think that's an excellent point.

After reading through the angry tirades, the obvious point is we have a serious problem on the Oilers. Duh. What to do about it?

The players are definitely hurting. Minus their #1 (Comrie) and #2 (Marchant), #3 (Reasoner) centres from last year, #1 defenseman (Niinniimaa) and #1 goalies (Salo), someone HAS to step up. York is doing his yeoman best, but its not enough. Conklin stepped it up for 10 days and the Oil won. That's how close the Oil are between a winning team and a losing team. I really like the leadership and and play shown recently by Smith. Reasoner will hopefully be back soon.

The coaches are NOT helping the situation. I will give credit where credit is due. Why is Cross doing well this season? Coaching. Torres seems to have adapted well. So has Stoll. I must believe that coaching is part of that. Dvorak is certainly flying better than he ever did with NYR. Semenov is starting to snarl again.

But blame is also due. How can the Oil be 30th in PK and nearly 30th in PP? Some bad luck sure. But coaching is a very real reason to the problems here.

How will the Oil try to fix it? Well, the Oil are going to give MacT the lead. They're going to try to ride it out. They're waiting for Reasoner to return and straighten out at least the checking line. Even though its only the 3rd line, they play a lot more minutes than on other teams because the Oilers have a more balanced approach. They're going to give Oates more time. They're going to give both Conklin and Salo more time. I think if anything is going to happen, some callups from Toronto might be the easiest fix. (not necessarily the right one mind you). I don't expect the Oil are in a financial position to make either a coaching or player change otherwise.


My suggestion however is to callup Rita. And/or Salmoleinen. As highly as I think of LMHF#1's coaching abilities, I don't see that as helping the team. I do think however that it might be time to sit out some veterans. They might be working their butts off, but the puck is not going into the net. So give Rita or Salmo or heck, even Woywitka a look. They're kids but at least they might:

1) infect some of the current roster with their enthusiasm
2) give fans some hope for the future
3) score via blind luck


Last edited by Master Lok: 12-24-2003 at 08:54 AM.
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Old
12-24-2003, 10:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by neogeo69
So give Rita or Salmo or heck, even Woywitka a look. They're kids but at least they might:

1) infect some of the current roster with their enthusiasm
2) give fans some hope for the future
3) score via blind luck
Not to mention the Oilers tend to go on streaks when a player from the farm comes in, contributes and plays well, ala RPM and Semenov last season. Semenov and Brew became the "shutdown" pairing after the trade deadline...RPM became our "close out the game" line, which we were having a godawful time doing.

My bet? Rita gets called up, scores four in six with Oates feeding him.

Oilers go 7-3 in the next 10.

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:30 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Hemmer
Not to mention the Oilers tend to go on streaks when a player from the farm comes in, contributes and plays well, ala RPM and Semenov last season. Semenov and Brew became the "shutdown" pairing after the trade deadline...RPM became our "close out the game" line, which we were having a godawful time doing.

My bet? Rita gets called up, scores four in six with Oates feeding him.

Oilers go 7-3 in the next 10.
What I find weird is that we have had the opportunity to recall Rita (or anyone for that matter) since Brewer returned. We can't score yet the team goes with the same underachieving line-up. It makes no sense. The organisation must really be sour on Rita, and I can't figure it out. He has the top ppg and +/- for forwards on the farm.

Lowe has done a poor job this year:

1) Oates, looking more and more like a bust with each game.
2) Not getting enough for Comrie (and panicing a bit, Yashin is now out for a few months...)
3) Doing absolutely nothing to shake up the line-up, only recalling players when injuries dictate.
4) This one will haunt us for years: Pouliot instead of Parise. Lowe and Prendergast got hosed. The "size-above-all" philosophy is plain stupid. I seem to remember making the playoffs last year with Comrie and Marchant. I'll take heart over size.

Perhaps the only positives of the year were the signings Moreau and Staios long-term.

Next up may be getting the best return possible on guys like Smith and Salo at the deadline. The way things are going I would think the owners would want to cut their losses for the year and get ready for 04.

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Old
12-25-2003, 10:19 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
I am of a mixed mind in this case. While Nolan is clearly not the answer (he was fired for being disloyal, something Lowe would never tolerate), I am not sure if the players have tuned out Mact. All coaches have a best before date and mact is one of the longest serving coaches inthe nhl right now.

It maybe a good short term solution to bring a motivator like demers but then the oilers would be paying 2 salaries next year when they are going to be cutting expenses to the bone. Coaches are team employees, not contract players so they have to be paid next year even during the walkout / strike. Without a good long walkout / strike, there won't be an oilers org in2 years so you have to know these guys are planning for a long stoppage. IMO, if MacT gets the can, then the only viable solution is for Lowe to step behind the bench.
Kudos to mentioning the loyalty factor. Going further though I will add (if no one else has - haven't read all the posts) that Nolan was disloyal to an Oiler Alumni - John Muckler. Can't see this hiring happening in a million years. Kelly Hrudey once remarked after a Ron MacLean's comment that "Nolan is a available..." that Nolan is a ".500 coach who had the best goalie in the world at the time."

The Oilers have long been short on some game breaking talent. Doug Weight wasn't quite there but he was as close to it this team has been since CuJo. Weight, to my recollection, never won us a playoff series. He never took the team on his shoulders like he did with St Louis last year. CuJo did. Missing that presence in the playoffs since 1998 has hurt this club. A lot of good players out there who complement the team concept quite well. Too bad none of them can take over a game on a consistent basis.

Either this gamebreaker is on the team or in the system or he isn't. Either we can find him elsewhere or we can't. Regardless, this team will never have the success that 1997 and 1998 teased us with until someone can step in here and step it up.

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Old
12-25-2003, 10:25 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
What I find weird is that we have had the opportunity to recall Rita (or anyone for that matter) since Brewer returned. We can't score yet the team goes with the same underachieving line-up. It makes no sense. The organisation must really be sour on Rita, and I can't figure it out. He has the top ppg and +/- for forwards on the farm.

Lowe has done a poor job this year:

1) Oates, looking more and more like a bust with each game.
2) Not getting enough for Comrie (and panicing a bit, Yashin is now out for a few months...)
3) Doing absolutely nothing to shake up the line-up, only recalling players when injuries dictate.
4) This one will haunt us for years: Pouliot instead of Parise. Lowe and Prendergast got hosed. The "size-above-all" philosophy is plain stupid. I seem to remember making the playoffs last year with Comrie and Marchant. I'll take heart over size.

Perhaps the only positives of the year were the signings Moreau and Staios long-term.

Next up may be getting the best return possible on guys like Smith and Salo at the deadline. The way things are going I would think the owners would want to cut their losses for the year and get ready for 04.
Not ready to write off Oates just yet. Like a lot of players right now the chemistry is just not there. If one line could score the Oates line wouldn't be so pressed to be trying to score out there.

The Pouliot - Parise argument is interesting but unjustified. Parise would be a year older than Pouliot and although I was surprised that the Oilers passed on a guy they wanted (according to the Sun and Journal) they still got a guy they were raving about. You also fail to mention that Pouliot was picked based on his heart (apparentlly gave it the ol' 110% during the teams 60 game or whatever losing streak) and his skills. Statistically he might not be dominating like we would hope, perhaps he is showing that he is a team player and playing a role that complements Sydney Crosby. With the way we have played in the last stretch that might be a good thing if we continue to stink, play next year and end up with the first pick.

Out of curiosity - how is Parise playing?

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Old
12-25-2003, 04:29 PM
  #64
HOZ
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Originally Posted by CanmoreMike

The Oilers have long been short on some game breaking talent. Doug Weight wasn't quite there but he was as close to it this team has been since CuJo. Weight, to my recollection, never won us a playoff series. He never took the team on his shoulders like he did with St Louis last year. CuJo did. Missing that presence in the playoffs since 1998 has hurt this club. A lot of good players out there who complement the team concept quite well. Too bad none of them can take over a game on a consistent basis.

Either this gamebreaker is on the team or in the system or he isn't. Either we can find him elsewhere or we can't. Regardless, this team will never have the success that 1997 and 1998 teased us with until someone can step in here and step it up.
Well said.

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