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Old
03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
  #26
K2B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Nucks View Post
Trading Raymond for Havlat makes us a worse team. Terrible idea.
Trading Raymond for a proven 50+ point player is such a "terrible idea" Even more "terrible" When you realize Raymond's a UFA at seasons end

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
  #27
petrishriekandgo
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Don't want any part of David Booth. No from SJ
He has a lot of spare parts available... you sure?

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:23 PM
  #28
Moore Money
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Originally Posted by miscbrahh View Post
david booth sucks
This. He has one of the worst contracts in the league. Nobody wants a 4th liner making 4.2mil...

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:24 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Why wouldn't we? What's one valid reason why we don't do this deal?
I don't like Havlat and don't feel he is worth his cap hit.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:24 PM
  #30
Hatrick Marleau
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
This. He has one of the worst contracts in the league. Nobody wants a 4th liner making 4.2mil...
While I decline this trade easily, this isn't true. Booth may be a bit overpaid but he is a top 6 quality player.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:25 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Trading Raymond for a proven 50+ point player is such a "terrible idea" Even more "terrible" When you realize Raymond's a UFA at seasons end
Havlat is 31, not so old that he's really on the decline, but old enough to know he's peaked and we know his ceiling.
I'm basing my opinion off what they currently offer. This season, Raymond is currently the better player. His chemistry with Schroeder and Hansen isn't something we should mess with; he contributes to our pk unit, he brings speed and a great wrist shot, and he's a decent option in the shoot out.
Besides, Raymond being a UFA at the end of this season is better than 2 more years of Havlat @ 5 million, the last thing we need is another overpaid winger. We might be able to re-sign Raymond at 3-3.5 mill, much better than Havlat.

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03-28-2013, 03:26 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
So... get faster by trading one of the faster skaters on the team? That makes loads of sense.

We don't want Raymond because he's an injury risk and prone to inconsistency. Havlat is an injury risk, but when he's playing he's consistent as hell. Our record with Havlat in the line up is dramatic compared to when he isn't.
Raymond has actually been very good this year. One of the Canucks best forwards for sure. Didnt think I would ever say that.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
I don't like Havlat and don't feel he is worth his cap hit.
While David Booth is the epitome of good value for his cap hit.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:27 PM
  #34
Moore Money
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
While I decline this trade easily, this isn't true. Booth may be a bit overpaid but he is a top 6 quality player.
he really isn't top 6 quality at all. He has the hockey IQ of a brick.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:30 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
I don't like Havlat and don't feel he is worth his cap hit.
I don't like Booth and don't feel he's worth his cap hit

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:31 PM
  #36
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I feel like Booth has had maybe 40 healthy games as a Canuck, and produced/looked good in those games.

Obviously speculation on my part, but if he can get lucky and stay healthy he is a very solid 2nd liner.

But health is always a big "if"

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:32 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
he really isn't top 6 quality at all. He has the hockey IQ of a brick.
So does Evander Kane. Low hockey IQ doesn't stop you from being effective if you're a crash and bang player. Booth just desperately needs a change of scenery. Injuries are a big part of it, too.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Nucks View Post
Havlat is 31, not so old that he's really on the decline, but old enough to know he's peaked and we know his ceiling.
I'm basing my opinion off what they currently offer. This season, Raymond is currently the better player. His chemistry with Schroeder and Hansen isn't something we should mess with; he contributes to our pk unit, he brings speed and a great wrist shot, and he's a decent option in the shoot out.
Besides, Raymond being a UFA at the end of this season is better than 2 more years of Havlat @ 5 million, the last thing we need is another overpaid winger. We might be able to re-sign Raymond at 3-3.5 mill, much better than Havlat.
I agree for the most part with this point. But the one thing Havlat has over Raymond is pure skill, a team like Vancouver who's been offensively deprived this season lacks the element of pure skill aside from the Sedins'. Kesler and Burrows are top 6 forwards but they get there points by working hard moreso than just natural skill. Havlat IMO would help the powerplay along with the fact he'd be an ideal linemate for Kesler. I'd obviously rather move Booth for Havlat, but if Raymond is all it would take I do the deal.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:34 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
he really isn't top 6 quality at all. He has the hockey IQ of a brick.
Yes he is. Let him get in a healthy stint and he'll prove wrong all of these unwarranted haters. Not every contract is going to be a steal.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:37 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
I agree for the most part with this point. But the one thing Havlat has over Raymond is pure skill, a team like Vancouver who's been offensively deprived this season lacks the element of pure skill aside from the Sedins'. Kesler and Burrows are top 6 forwards but they get there points by working hard moreso than just natural skill. Havlat IMO would help the powerplay along with the fact he'd be an ideal linemate for Kesler. I'd obviously rather move Booth for Havlat, but if Raymond is all it would take I do the deal.
We haven't even seen Raymond peak yet. His 25 goal/53 point season might be replicable, or maybe he surpasses it. Havlat could put up 60 points again, but I think it's relatively unlikely and doesn't justify the extra 2 or so million he will make next year. The contract and chemistry Raymond has with this team is what makes this a terrible trade. If we could dump Booth and get Havlat, and keep Raymond, then that would be pretty awesome, but other options might be more viable.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Nucks View Post
We haven't even seen Raymond peak yet. His 25 goal/53 point season might be replicable, or maybe he surpasses it. Havlat could put up 60 points again, but I think it's relatively unlikely and doesn't justify the extra 2 or so million he will make next year. The contract and chemistry Raymond has with this team is what makes this a terrible trade.
Pure skill isn't measure by production. Let's be honest here Raymond's celling is probably what he is now, he was projected to be this type of player never shown in any of his years he could exceed what he's doing right now. We just as easily could lose Raymond at seasons end for nothing, so his contract status reakky isn't something you could be using in this argument. Anyway can we just agree to disagree?

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:50 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Pure skill isn't measure by production. Let's be honest here Raymond's celling is probably what he is now, he was projected to be this type of player never shown in any of his years he could exceed what he's doing right now. We just as easily could lose Raymond at seasons end for nothing, so his contract status reakky isn't something you could be using in this argument. Anyway can we just agree to disagree?
You just said we are a team that's offensively deprived, so I assumed when you mentioned skill, you wanted point production

And no, it would dumb to dismiss Raymond right now and say he has already peaked (offensively speaking). Last year was a wash due to his back injury; this year he's finally getting into the swing of things and he looks really damn good, he's one of our biggest providers for secondary scoring, which is what you are preaching for, yet we should ship him out for an older and more expensive player, who, at best, is a marginal upgrade? Not to mention the cap coming down next season and being stuck with another winger that's probably making too much based on his current production.

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Old
03-28-2013, 04:37 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Nucks View Post
Yeah we won't get much for Booth, his value is at an all time low. Multiple injuries lately and low point production, although he's looked decent when he has been on the ice. Maybe deal him next trade deadline if he puts up another 20+ goal season and we need cap space or a playmaker instead.

San Jose fans, any chance Demers is available?
So it mean lower than two aging UFA as Samuelson and Sturm. (and dont forget Florida gave Reinprecht a 3rd along with Booth)

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Old
03-28-2013, 04:49 PM
  #44
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I'd probably do it from a San Jose viewpoint, you get a player who - let's be honest here - is likely going to be in and out of the lineup about as often as Havlat with maybe a slight dip in production, whom you can always buy out in 2014 if he doesn't rebound, throw in a 2nd rounder and a pretty solid prospect, and all you lose is a guy who has seasons of 27 points and (prorated) 22 points respectively.

For the Canucks, I would absolutely not do it.
This.

The only reason we should have any interest in Havlat is to get out of Booth's contract faster. Neither player is playing up their status, but Booth is more consistent when not injured - paradox that might be. I cannot see the purpose for either team doing this. San Jose gets stuck with longer term, while Vancouver doesn't get a better player.

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Old
03-28-2013, 04:57 PM
  #45
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But... Havlat has been just as disapointing as Booth. This seems like a lateral move with us giving up a prospect and a 2nd rounder. Pass.

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:03 PM
  #46
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But... Havlat has been just as disapointing as Booth. This seems like a lateral move with us giving up a prospect and a 2nd rounder. Pass.
Only because Havlat was playing through an injury. Once he sat a few games and came back, he has been fine.

There's no way we're trading Havlat for Booth. Makes no sense for us.

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:11 PM
  #47
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But... Havlat has been just as disapointing as Booth. This seems like a lateral move with us giving up a prospect and a 2nd rounder. Pass.
He's not dissapointing at all, when he's in the lineup the Sharks tend to win games, dramatically so. I don't feel like adding it up again right now, but the win % of the Sharks with Havlat compared to without is kind of crazy. The guy is quietly one of the most important players on the team.

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:17 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
This.

The only reason we should have any interest in Havlat is to get out of Booth's contract faster. Neither player is playing up their status, but Booth is more consistent when not injured - paradox that might be. I cannot see the purpose for either team doing this. San Jose gets stuck with longer term, while Vancouver doesn't get a better player.
Havlat's contract expires in 14/15, just like David Booth's, and carries an extra $750,000 cap hit.

No term advantage to Vancouver here.

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:32 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Trading Raymond for a proven 50+ point player is such a "terrible idea" Even more "terrible" When you realize Raymond's a UFA at seasons end
I'd rather have the flexibility or Raymond's contract then to be tied down to Havlat for $5M. Havlat and Booth could end up being $9M+ of useless contract.

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:47 PM
  #50
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I hope Nucks fans stop trying to trade Mason Raymond.

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