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Old
03-28-2013, 04:27 AM
  #126
BluejacketNut
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Supposedly Khokalchek (sp?), Bartkowski, conditional 1st (on Iggy resigning) for Iginla.

Feaster is a ****ing idiot. My god, and Howson was supposedly the 'worst gm in the league' :
Howson would have traded him for 2 guys who wouldnt be on the team the next year. Howson and Feaser may be related lol

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03-28-2013, 05:47 AM
  #127
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The big difference between the Iginla situation and the Nash is Iggy is a UFA at end of season so Flames didn't have much leverage. Better what they got than nothing.

Maybe they Tkachuk him, maybe Pens resign him, maybe Jarmo...

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03-28-2013, 06:26 AM
  #128
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I was more referring to trades like Klesla, Torres, Fedorov where we really have nothing to show for the trade. At least get something for your assets instead of just dumping them. Was Straka who we took with the 2nd round pick we got from Buffalo?

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03-28-2013, 07:07 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Howson would have traded him for 2 guys who wouldnt be on the team the next year. Howson and Feaser may be related lol
Kinda like the Nash trade, huh?

Anyways, Iginla to Pittsburgh for a package that I'd consider inferior.

Pittsburgh is trading for everybody, so what do we get back from them for Letestu.

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03-28-2013, 07:11 AM
  #130
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Ray Shero might be the smartest man in the NHL.


We go from the Wings in our division, to the Pens.....



Maybe the best option would have just been to have the CBJ and WIN just swap places!

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03-28-2013, 07:14 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Ray Shero might be the smartest man in the NHL.


We go from the Wings in our division, to the Pens.....



Maybe the best option would have just been to have the CBJ and WIN just swap places!
They'll still be good but this current lineup has very little hope of existing past June.

I'd say it's probably good for the Jackets that the Pens sold off a lot of future assets. It's tough to replace 4 top picks and 3 top prospects, even if you're the Pens.

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03-28-2013, 09:35 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Howson would have traded him for 2 guys who wouldnt be on the team the next year. Howson and Feaser may be related lol
Let's think of the difference between the Nash and Iginla packages here for a second.

Hell, let's set every involved player aside and realize that Columbus even most likely made out better than the Flames did on the basis of 1st-rounders coming back the other way. As long as Pittsburgh wins the division (which they will) and NYR doesn't make the conference finals, Columbus gets the higher pick.

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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
I was more referring to trades like Klesla, Torres, Fedorov where we really have nothing to show for the trade. At least get something for your assets instead of just dumping them. Was Straka who we took with the 2nd round pick we got from Buffalo?
Fedorov was traded for Theo Ruth, who's still in the system. Torres was a pending UFA. Klesla was injured.

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It's easy to look like the strongest man when you're tearing candy away from a baby.

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03-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
They'll still be good but this current lineup has very little hope of existing past June.

I'd say it's probably good for the Jackets that the Pens sold off a lot of future assets. It's tough to replace 4 top picks and 3 top prospects, even if you're the Pens.
They didn't sell off anything of importance, with the exception of Joe Morrow. And he's in the same position as David Savard is here. The first-rounder will likely be no earlier than 22nd under any circumstances.

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03-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #134
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They didn't sell off anything of importance, with the exception of Joe Morrow. And he's in the same position as David Savard is here. The first-rounder will likely be no earlier than 22nd under any circumstances.
Thats still a steep price to pay, to rent Iginla for 2 months.

If he turns out to be a difference maker, and they win the cup, it will seem brilliant....otherwise, it will look like a failed act of desperation.

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03-28-2013, 10:04 AM
  #135
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Thats still a steep price to pay, to rent Iginla for 2 months.

If he turns out to be a difference maker, and they win the cup, it will seem brilliant....otherwise, it will look like a failed act of desperation.
In all honesty, it's a 1st-rounder and little more. The players are unsigned college guys who don't project as anything on the top two lines. Pittsburgh won't miss them at all, and Calgary had better hope that they turn into something spectacular.

Compared to the price they paid for Hossa, or that any of a number of teams have paid for pending UFAs at the deadline (like Tkachuk, or like Adam Oates back in the day), this is nothing. This is highway robbery here. They could theoretically turn right around and trade Iginla for double what they just paid to get him.

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03-28-2013, 12:20 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
They'll still be good but this current lineup has very little hope of existing past June.

I'd say it's probably good for the Jackets that the Pens sold off a lot of future assets. It's tough to replace 4 top picks and 3 top prospects, even if you're the Pens.
Agostino and Hanowski weren't top 3 prospects. Not even top 10. Morrow is the only prospect I'm bummed about losing, but I'll get over it.

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03-28-2013, 02:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
In all honesty, it's a 1st-rounder and little more. The players are unsigned college guys who don't project as anything on the top two lines. Pittsburgh won't miss them at all, and Calgary had better hope that they turn into something spectacular.

Compared to the price they paid for Hossa, or that any of a number of teams have paid for pending UFAs at the deadline (like Tkachuk, or like Adam Oates back in the day), this is nothing. This is highway robbery here. They could theoretically turn right around and trade Iginla for double what they just paid to get him.
Highway robbery is right. Basically just for a late first rounder- that's the only thing of value going to the Flames. One must assume that there is so little value because Iggy insisted on the Pens.

After all of these trades, the Pens didn't give up any of their top prospects. You're right, Joe Morrow is their version of David Savard (maybe Morrow has more upside), he looked like the least promising of their top-5 defencemen prospects.

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03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
  #138
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Wow, I can't believe Iginla ended up getting traded to Pittsburgh. I didn't like their first two trades, but I like this one.

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03-28-2013, 04:35 PM
  #139
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I swore that I wouldn't mention a certain deposed GM at every opportunity, but I think there's enough of a comparison that it bears analysis.

Both Calgary and Columbus were dealing with a similar situation: that of a longtime player and captain who could net a huge return if traded off of a team that was basically spinning its wheels. Time was something of a factor, but we don't know to what extent. No one knows when Nash trade talks began, but we do know he was asked about it back in November of 2011. Iginla has been in this position the last couple of years; the Flames won't go anywhere and they must rebuild, and Iginla would obviously net the biggest return. No doubt there has been discussion about this over the last year or two. Both players had NTCs, but both presented a list of possible team destinations to their GM.

Here's where it breaks down. In the end, Howson was able to get four very good pieces* from New York in exchange for Rick Nash, Feaster was able to get one good piece* and two mediocre ones. We don't know who was on Nash's list, and we don't definitively know who was on Iginla's. What we do know is that Howson was conducting trade talks on Nash with teams without tipping his hand. This was revealed when Kings' GM Dean Lombardi said that he'd had talks about Nash, but had no idea if the Kings were even on "the list". We don't know if Feaster was talking to anyone else who wasn't on Iginla's list.

In Howson's case, what was regarded as a major blunder (talking about the fact that Nash had requested the trade) is something that I still regard as a calculated move that didn't go anywhere...it didn't help, but it didn't hurt. In Feaster's case, the major blunders are as follows:
1) He didn't create any type of desperation. There was 7 days until the trade deadline, and everyone starts getting jumpy as that day approaches. There's a 99% chance that he'd be getting better offers as the deadline got closer.
2) He didn't create a bidding war. It's possible that Iginla wanted Pittsburgh and no one else, and it's also possible that Nash wanted New York and no one else. Howson played everyone against each other, Feaster did not.
3) Iginla is a better player than Nash. Even right now, with Iginla well past his prime and Nash theoretically in his, I'd rather have Iginla. There's no issues of "who can he play with", or "will he be engaged physically if the game turns tough", or "will he backcheck", in addition to the more varied offensive toolbox Iginla brings to the table.
4) Iginla, as a pending UFA, can be signed for a shorter term and lower salary than what anyone else would be locked into with Nash. Is it possible he goes back to Calgary? Sure. Is it possible he would re-sign with his new team? Absolutely. There are a lot more options though; pending UFAs may get reduced trade returns, but not this...this is bottom of the barrel.

*The reason that Howson got "a very good piece" and Feaster "a good piece" when both refer to a 2013 1st-rounder is simple. When the Nash trade was made, it was an unpegged future 1st from the Rangers, who were in the same division as contenders New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. Philly obviously has fallen apart, but that's pretty unexpected. Regardless, Feaster gets a somewhat-pegged 1st from a team that's running away with their division and leads the conference. At absolute best, that's the 21st overall pick. It's more likely going to be around 25th or 26th, maybe lower. With the Rangers floundering around 8th in the East, their 1st has evolved from "good piece" to "very good piece".

Did Howson pull off the steal of the century in the Nash trade? No. Did he outstrip Feaster by a factor of 50? Absolutely. I don't know how much that's actually saying, but the return on Iginla (pending UFA or not) is actually laughable. I'd be livid if I were a Flames fan. ANY ONE of the four pieces Columbus got for Nash would be better than anything Calgary just got.

(No, I'm not asking for anyone to join my side. I really don't give a **** at this point. I'm merely using a familiar scenario as a foil to demonstrate how poorly Feaster handled this.)

(I'll simply carry my search for acolytes to the main boards)


Last edited by Mayor Bee: 03-28-2013 at 04:40 PM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 04:48 PM
  #140
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I'll say again the difference is Iggy was a UFA- Feaster had no leverage; Howson did.

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03-28-2013, 04:50 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I'lls ay again the difference is Iggy was a UFA- Feaster had no leverage; Howson did.
Feaster had plenty. He had seven days with "a list" that most likely included five Stanley Cup contenders, and everyone in a holding pattern to see what he would do.

Even if he'd waited until the last minute, I can guarantee you he'd have gotten more than a late-1st and two C-level college prospects.

Also, Brenden Morrow was a pending UFA (still is), and yet Dallas got one of the top defenseman prospects in the NHL. Morrow hasn't had a good year in a while, and Iginla is Iginla.


Last edited by Mayor Bee: 03-28-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 06:14 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I'll say again the difference is Iggy was a UFA- Feaster had no leverage; Howson did.
Thank you.

This is the fact that trumps Mayor's "presentation". I realize that he acknowledges the UFA status of Iggy, but treats it minimally.

The hard cold fact is that Feaster had his back to the wall, and Howson had waaaaaaay more leverage with Nash who was already signed long term.

Apples to oranges.

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03-28-2013, 06:26 PM
  #143
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Did Howson pull off the steal of the century in the Nash trade? No. Did he outstrip Feaster by a factor of 50? Absolutely.
That much can't be denied.

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:06 PM
  #144
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They'll still be good but this current lineup has very little hope of existing past June.

I'd say it's probably good for the Jackets that the Pens sold off a lot of future assets. It's tough to replace 4 top picks and 3 top prospects, even if you're the Pens.
This post sums up the situation for Pittsburgh.

If Iginla, Morrow, and Murray are part of a Cup run for the Pens, then these are excellent trades. If they fail, then they just sold off a bunch of young and valuable assets for three guys who won't likely be in their lineup in September.

Long-term, this is beneficial to us.

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03-28-2013, 08:25 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Thank you.

This is the fact that trumps Mayor's "presentation". I realize that he acknowledges the UFA status of Iggy, but treats it minimally.

The hard cold fact is that Feaster had his back to the wall, and Howson had waaaaaaay more leverage with Nash who was already signed long term.

Apples to oranges.
Given how Iginla routinely resigns up there like clockwork, I admit I'm not seeing the usual UFA pressure.

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:27 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
This post sums up the situation for Pittsburgh.

If Iginla, Morrow, and Murray are part of a Cup run for the Pens, then these are excellent trades. If they fail, then they just sold off a bunch of young and valuable assets for three guys who won't likely be in their lineup in September.

Long-term, this is beneficial to us.
Truth is, those other pieces weren't going to be in their linup in September either. It likely impacts the Pens' organizational depth, but that's about it. Even if they don't win, the moves were worth it.

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03-28-2013, 08:48 PM
  #147
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Truth is, those other pieces weren't going to be in their linup in September either. It likely impacts the Pens' organizational depth, but that's about it. Even if they don't win, the moves were worth it.
My point was more that it's all-in for this year, not for next year or subsequent years. Joe Morrow is an excellent skater - he'll be a John Moore type player really, so I think they gave up a solid asset there. Add in the other pieces they traded, and they really gave up quite a bit to go all in this year. As Samkow mentioned, losing those draft picks will hurt even them.

They still have Sidney Crosby, though...

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03-28-2013, 08:51 PM
  #148
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In other news, Rostislav Klesla has four assists for the Coyotes thus far, as they are ahead 7-3 over Nashville.

Thought some might find that interesting.

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03-28-2013, 09:13 PM
  #149
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My point was more that it's all-in for this year, not for next year or subsequent years. Joe Morrow is an excellent skater - he'll be a John Moore type player really, so I think they gave up a solid asset there. Add in the other pieces they traded, and they really gave up quite a bit to go all in this year. As Samkow mentioned, losing those draft picks will hurt even them.

They still have Sidney Crosby, though...
You're right about all-in. Presume that's a cap situation that Shero is making the most of. Morrow's development is sketchy, he could still be a good player, but they've got 2-3 defensemen ahead of him in the pipeline. Nonetheless, it's all, as I said earlier, depth, between the picks and prospects. And sure, that hurts, but not in a significant way.

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03-28-2013, 09:25 PM
  #150
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You're right about all-in. Presume that's a cap situation that Shero is making the most of. Morrow's development is sketchy, he could still be a good player, but they've got 2-3 defensemen ahead of him in the pipeline. Nonetheless, it's all, as I said earlier, depth, between the picks and prospects. And sure, that hurts, but not in a significant way.
Can't disagree here. I also mentioned that they are making the best of their cap situation this year, earlier in the thread when they acquired Brenden Morrow. With their core locked up fairly long-term, it's going to be difficult to bring in those "other pieces" to be competitive like they are this year, in the foreseeable future. It is entirely possible that the cap goes back up to it's current level in a few years, but with the group they have, now has to be the time. Kudos to Ray Shero and his staff for not only recognizing that, but for also making an effort to take advantage of it.

Hopefully some day we'll be in such an "unfortunate" situation...

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