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The Carey Price Discussion Thread

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Old
03-28-2013, 11:00 PM
  #101
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
Lundqvist Save Percentages over the same time period

2008 - 2009 .916
2009 - 2010 .921
2010 - 2011 .923
2011 - 2012 .929
2011 - 2013 thus far .922

Much better than Rinne, but also 5 years older than Price. That means that five years ago he was the same age as Price is now (obviously), and at that point in time his best season was a .922 he got in 2005-2006.
Again...the age excuse. It's like saying DD is younger than MSL..so you can't say MSL is better right now. Wha?

What was Henrik's save percentage in his 6th season? .923...

Again...I'm not the one who said Price's numbers compared to the better goalies in the league. Someone else did...and I disagreed...and I'm rigiht.

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03-28-2013, 11:02 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's been pretty good.

His rookie year he won a game 7 with a shutout.
His 2nd year we were steamrolled, ragdolled shot twice and pissed on by the Bruins.
His 3rd year he barely played as that was the year of Halak's imitation of Ken Dryden.
His 4th year he was very good and took the Bruins to 7 games.

He hasn't been bad at all man.
His rookie season he had 2 real bad outing that helped the bruins back in the serie and couldn't stop a shot against philly.

His fourth year the Habs should have won the serie. In the last game he choked on 3 leads if i remember correctly and I remember an other game in that serie where he completely choked.

I think we were leading by like 3 goal after the first.

I know it happens to all the teams that sometime the goalie lets in the bad goal but... In Price game it seems to be the rule and not the exception.

But you know I resigned on Price and I talk about him now because there's a thread on that but i'll try to not blame him anymore in the gdt.

I will congratulate him on his good game. I aknowledge he is not all that bad.

All I argue about is his franchise player status. He is good enough to be a starter in the nhl and I wouldn't trade him for nothing far from that.

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03-28-2013, 11:03 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He was terrible in his 1st playoffs after the 1st half of the Bruins series. Weak goals glove hand. You don't remember that? Series shouldn't have even gone to game 7. Hew also got outduelled by Biron agsinst Philly.
Are you on drugs? Dude, he was up against Thomas and beat him. In FIVE of the seven games he was .935 save percentage or better with two shutouts including the game seven. And the guy was 20 years old.

Yes, he got smoked by Philly but your sitting there talking like he sucked... that's not the case. He was awesome for us in getting us to the 2nd round.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
2nd year I don't blame him...but he wasn't good.

3rd year he was terrible and Halak replaced him

4th year he was good in most games. I don't have a problem with him in that series...
Nobody could've done anything that 2nd year. We were thoroughly thrashed.

Again, your memory needs refreshing... he wasn't the starter in the playoffs when Halak went on his crazy run. He only got into four games, three in relief.

4th year he was awesome.



So again, you're sitting there talking like he sucks in the playoffs... he doesn't. Just get a grip dude.

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03-28-2013, 11:03 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Then why say he's been bad in playoffs ? Don't you think being 22 years old had an effect on him being average in goals ?
Here's what I said:

"Price hasn't been good in the playoffs"

hasn't been good =/= bad

Also, when will we drop the age excuse? He's been in the league for 6 years. Is he good? Yes...but he can be criticized just like any other player on the team.

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03-28-2013, 11:05 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
No matter how the shot came you can't say that 4 goal in 10 minute is good. The goal that had to go in went in.
I think this is the whole point - it very much matters how the goals went in if you are judging a goalie. Do you know how quickly you can score a goal? 10 minutes is plenty of time to score 10 goals if you let the other team just walk in and do whatever they want. This whole "the goal that had to go in went in" line of reasoning is just plain incorrect. You haven't answered how he was supposed to stop those goals. Maybe if you phrased it "Can Carey Price when faced with impossible situations take us far", then your argument gets mileage, but judging him on saves he just cannot make (nor any goalie) is silly. I'm not saying that Carey Price has been perfect and that I wouldn't want some goals back, but those 4 goals, sorry, unstoppable and I give him tons of credit for many of the 26 he did make.

Quote:
Any goalie can block the easy shots. It's how you play the other shots that make you great good average or bad.
Do you remember any really quality saves he made to keep us in the game? Here are two:

Price, C. on Marchand, B. (12:09 in 1st) to keep it 1-0
Price, C. on Marchand, B. (13:54 in 2nd) to keep it 2-2

And he made a lot of saves by hugging the post, not going down too early and fighting through traffic. Watch the replays. They may seem easy, but it's as if people don't notice when other goalies let them in, but when Price does it's an "easy save". He's not always been sharp, but for the majority of the time, his focus has been superb, leading to tons of positional saves that would have gone right through other top goalies (and sometimes tips are a *****).


Quote:
It's true that Boston dominated that 10 minute segment at the end of the second. It's true that the shots were perfect. But 4 goal in 10 minutes is still bad for the team and for the goaltender. You can't say he was good that's just not true.

You could say he was fighting and that it was not his fault. But you can't say he was good because he just wasn't in that 10 minutes span. He was playing like the rest of the team.
That part is correct. Again, see above re: singling out the goalie. No, he was playing better than the rest of the team. Again, which one of the 4 goals do you think was stoppable. Let's analyze that. Your blanket statement of 4 goals in 10 minutes = Price wasn't good (if not very good) is a lazy analysis.
If there's a 5-4 game, with the goalies duelling it out, with 30 shots a side, great saves by each goalie, is the goalie who let's in a PP 4 on 3 goal to make it 5-4 not good? No, it has everything to do with how the goals were scored, not how many, not which team ends up winning.

Again, Price has not been perfect, but last night he was amazing. Stopped all the ones he or any other goalie should have, including the "elite". Please watch the glove save on Marchand (when it was 2-2).
He's been less good in games we've won cleanly, which says a lot about your statement of team performance vs goalie performance.

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03-28-2013, 11:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Again...the age excuse. It's like saying DD is younger than MSL..so you can't say MSL is better right now. Wha?

What was Henrik's save percentage in his 6th season? .923...

Again...I'm not the one who said Price's numbers compared to the better goalies in the league. Someone else did...and I disagreed...and I'm rigiht.
But his numbers do compare. I didn't say his numbers were the best out of all those goalies. But in most years they compare with Rinne or Miller or Quick, with the exception of the fact that each of those goalie had a really hot year.

Just because Lundqvist fares far better on average than those others doesn't mean Price's numbers havent been on par with the better goalies of the league. Lundqvist is not the only better goalie in the league.

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03-28-2013, 11:06 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Here's what I said:

"Price hasn't been good in the playoffs"

hasn't been good =/= bad

Also, when will we drop the age excuse? He's been in the league for 6 years. Is he good? Yes...but he can be criticized just like any other player on the team.
I don't think he needs any 'excuse'. He's mostly played well. His last time out he was brilliant and lost in 7 games to the cup champs with an inferior team.

I don't see any reason not to believe in this guy right now. He's just entering his prime and I think we've got the best young goalie in the league. Most goalies are just starting their careers right now and Price has done well under enormous pressure in the hardest hockey environment there is.

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03-28-2013, 11:07 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Here's what I said:

"Price hasn't been good in the playoffs"

hasn't been good =/= bad

Also, when will we drop the age excuse? He's been in the league for 6 years. Is he good? Yes...but he can be criticized just like any other player on the team.
Semantics. You're saying he hasn't risen to the level we expect of him, which he has. Lafleurs Guy has given you some pretty solid stats and I really do think people's insecurities and fear cause them to lose objectivity and memory.

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03-28-2013, 11:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
His rookie season he had 2 real bad outing that helped the bruins back in the serie and couldn't stop a shot against philly.
He was spectacular for five out of the seven games and won the series with a shutout. What's wrong with you man?


Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
His fourth year the Habs should have won the serie. In the last game he choked on 3 leads if i remember correctly and I remember an other game in that serie where he completely choked.

I think we were leading by like 3 goal after the first.

I know it happens to all the teams that sometime the goalie lets in the bad goal but... In Price game it seems to be the rule and not the exception.

But you know I resigned on Price and I talk about him now because there's a thread on that but i'll try to not blame him anymore in the gdt.

I will congratulate him on his good game. I aknowledge he is not all that bad.

All I argue about is his franchise player status. He is good enough to be a starter in the nhl and I wouldn't trade him for nothing far from that.
Price was awesome against the Bruins, Thomas even said afterwards that he was the best goalie he'd faced.... and yet you actually blame him for us losing the series? Come on man... again I ask what the hell is wrong with you?

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03-28-2013, 11:11 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Are you on drugs? Dude, he was up against Thomas and beat him. In FIVE of the seven games he was .935 save percentage or better with two shutouts including the game seven. And the guy was 20 years old.

Yes, he got smoked by Philly but your sitting there talking like he sucked... that's not the case. He was awesome for us in getting us to the 2nd round.


Nobody could've done anything that 2nd year. We were thoroughly thrashed.

Again, your memory needs refreshing... he wasn't the starter in the playoffs when Halak went on his crazy run. He only got into four games, three in relief.

4th year he was awesome.



So again, you're sitting there talking like he sucks in the playoffs... he doesn't. Just get a grip dude.
Learn how to read and process information properly. Once you can do that...I will engage in a discussion with you.

You seem to be romanticizing Price's playoffs. They weren't good. Was he young? Yes...but that doesn't discount what I'm saying.

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03-28-2013, 11:13 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
But his numbers do compare. I didn't say his numbers were the best out of all those goalies. But in most years they compare with Rinne or Miller or Quick, with the exception of the fact that each of those goalie had a really hot year.

Just because Lundqvist fares far better on average than those others doesn't mean Price's numbers havent been on par with the better goalies of the league. Lundqvist is not the only better goalie in the league.
How do they compare? Price's numbers are not close to Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, etc....

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03-28-2013, 11:14 PM
  #112
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Price was flip flopping in his gosl in that 10 minutes. All the saves seemed hard to make that game.

Yes he made some great save but there's the thing. If his positioning was off... Some shot that goes in seems unblockable are in fact really stoppable.

It was a ****** 10 minutes. The goalie was as bad as the rest of the team in that span. 4 goal in 16 shot is still bad for a goalie. At some point you have to blame.

The way I evaluate yesterday's game for Price is like that. Good first , average 2nd, bad 10 minute.

Yesterday he was not bad but he was not amazing either. He was like he always is and that's average ( for a #1 goalie) not bad and not good... Average.

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03-28-2013, 11:15 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Learn how to read and process information properly. Once you can do that...I will engage in a discussion with you.

You seem to be romanticizing Price's playoffs. They weren't good. Was he young? Yes...but that doesn't discount what I'm saying.
He's been in three playoffs. One he was blown away along with the team. Pretty much a write-off.

HIs rookie year he's awesome against the Bs and gets outplayed by Philly.
His last appearance he was pretty wicked against Boston.

He's been a lot better than folks are saying he's been dude.

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03-28-2013, 11:18 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Semantics. You're saying he hasn't risen to the level we expect of him, which he has. Lafleurs Guy has given you some pretty solid stats and I really do think people's insecurities and fear cause them to lose objectivity and memory.
Get real. In what world does "not good" = bad? It's not either/or or black/white. He has had a meh playoff campaign. He was pretty good against the Bruins 2 years ago. He was also good against them in his 1st year for the first 4 games...then let in 5 goals each game....then was poor against Philly. Then the next year he was poor again. The team was poor, but so was he. Then the year Halak took over, Price wasn't good in the limited time he played in those playoffs. He played well the next year. Inconsistent play...that has been called "good" and "great" on here...yet I'm not being objective?

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03-28-2013, 11:20 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
How do they compare? Price's numbers are not close to Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, etc....
Over the past couple of years with goalies who've played 120 games or more since 2011 Price is 5th in save percentage overall.

Lundqvist .924
Rinne .924
Luongo .922
Quick .920
Price .919

BTW, these numbers include our last place finish from last year.

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03-28-2013, 11:21 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's been in three playoffs. One he was blown away along with the team. Pretty much a write-off.

HIs rookie year he's awesome against the Bs and gets outplayed by Philly.
His last appearance he was pretty wicked against Boston.

He's been a lot better than folks are saying he's been dude.

He has been inconsistent...period. You are "writing" off his bad performances, which is funny to me.

That 1st playoffs he was good in half the games and terrible in the rest. His glove got exposed terribly after game 4 in the 1st round.

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03-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Over the past couple of years with goalies who've played 120 games or more since 2011 Price is 5th in save percentage overall.

Lundqvist .924
Rinne .924
Luongo .922
Quick .920
Price .919
Source? What about since 2010? What about since 2012? See what I'm getting at?

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03-28-2013, 11:26 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He has been inconsistent...period. You are "writing" off his bad performances, which is funny to me.

That 1st playoffs he was good in half the games and terrible in the rest. His glove got exposed terribly after game 4 in the 1st round.
I'm saying that folks who are talking like he hasn't been good in the postseason don't know what they're talking about. For ****'s sake Durojean is sitting there talking about how he was terrible in two out of 7 games a few years back.

The only thing I've written off is that one year where we were putrid against Boston. I think that should be written off because it was so bad.

He hasn't been in the postseason much but to sit there and paint him as having sucked I think is unfair.

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03-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He was spectacular for five out of the seven games and won the series with a shutout. What's wrong with you man?



Price was awesome against the Bruins, Thomas even said afterwards that he was the best goalie he'd faced.... and yet you actually blame him for us losing the series? Come on man... again I ask what the hell is wrong with you?
If your goalie lose you 2 game out of seven where the way the team played they should have won. Then on seven game it makes all the difference.

Plus I don't think he won 1 game in ot that serie but I can't really say I'm going by memory. I also remember in an ot in that serie where the habs were attacking relentlessely and first chance the Bruins got it was in the net.

I remember those game because I remember blaming Price back then.

But as I said a number of time. I don't like him that much and that's my perception of his performances.

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03-28-2013, 11:34 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
How do they compare? Price's numbers are not close to Lundqvist, Rinne, Luongo, etc....
I guess it depends on how you define close. Looks pretty close to me.
Just looking at the past five years.

Bobby Lou - .920, .913, .928, .919, and .904 thus far this year
Quick - .914, .907, .918, .929, and .895 thus far this year
Rinne - .917, .911, .930, .923, .897 ^^^^
Lundqvist - .916, .921, .923, .929, .922 ^^^^^
Miller - .918, .929, .916, .916, .911
Price - .905, .912, .923, .916, .911

I would say that's close. He is certainly not at the upper end of that group.

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03-28-2013, 11:37 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I'm saying that folks who are talking like he hasn't been good in the postseason don't know what they're talking about. For ****'s sake Durojean is sitting there talking about how he was terrible in two out of 7 games a few years back.

The only thing I've written off is that one year where we were putrid against Boston. I think that should be written off because it was so bad.

He hasn't been in the postseason much but to sit there and paint him as having sucked I think is unfair.
He was not just bad he cost his team the games. It's a huge difference. In a serie where you can't lose 4 games if your goalie cost you 2 games you are at a big disadvantage.

It means games where Habs played better but the goalie ***** the bed. All the difference in the world.

And his rookie year... Why dismiss the Flyers serie where Price was awful ?

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03-28-2013, 11:38 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Source? What about since 2010? What about since 2012? See what I'm getting at?
It's the cumluative save percentage stat from Hockey reference. I put a minimum of 120 games to elminate all the one off players and backups.

Sure. You can go back further. But you're getting into seasons where he's 22 or 23 years old. I went back one season further and he's tied for 8th with a bunch of other players. One thing of note though is that Thomas is number one, he's no longer in the league so everyone moves up one spot. Go back to 2008 with a 250 game minimum and Price is tied for 8th but again Thomas is up there and Vokoun suddenly appears as the number 2. I don't think it makes sense to go back that far but even if you do Price isn't bad at all.

If you go back to his rookie year in 2007 with a 280 game minimum he comes out tied for 6th but again Thomas is included in that list... he's no longer in the league. Price would be 5th in save percentage since that time with goalies meeting the 280 game requirement. Pretty freaking good for a kid who's only 25 right now.

Since 2007 (Price's rookie year) with 280 game minimum not including Thomas he is retired:

Vokoun .921
Lundqvist .920
Luongo .919
Backstrom .918
Price .916 (tied)
Miller .916 (tied)

Edit: Pekka Rinne just misses this list as he only got the starters job in '09 and has 281 games played in his career. He'd be tied with Lundqvist at .920. So if you set the minimum at 275 games he appears and is tied for 2nd.

Still, you're looking at Price since he was a 20 year old against much older goalies. Very respectable.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 03-28-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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03-28-2013, 11:50 PM
  #123
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Price is a capable #1.

But he has largely inconstant. He has potential but... we've been saying that for 7years now, when all is said and done I don't think he will ever be considered a "great" goalie.. just a good goalie.

I hope he proves me wrong.

But I think for him to take us to the Stanley Cup, we will need to ice a DAMN good team with a damn good defense and we will probably need to score a lottt of goals. =]

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03-28-2013, 11:53 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
I guess it depends on how you define close. Looks pretty close to me.
Just looking at the past five years.

Bobby Lou - .920, .913, .928, .919, and .904 thus far this year
Quick - .914, .907, .918, .929, and .895 thus far this year
Rinne - .917, .911, .930, .923, .897 ^^^^
Lundqvist - .916, .921, .923, .929, .922 ^^^^^
Miller - .918, .929, .916, .916, .911
Price - .905, .912, .923, .916, .911

I would say that's close. He is certainly not at the upper end of that group.
Since coming into the league he's tied with Miller but has been better in recent years.

He's in a virtual tie with Quick over the past couple of years but Quick seems to be having problems now with his surgery.

Rinne and Lundqvist are better. Luongo is slightly better but has been playing fewer games. Also those players have been playing on much better teams for the most part.

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03-29-2013, 12:15 AM
  #125
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At this point reading all the negativity about Price when he was hung out to dry by his defence. I say trade him so he doesn't have to put up with the ******** from the fans that don't understand the game at all.

Trade him to NJ and end this ****.

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