HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Marian Gaborik

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-21-2013, 10:15 PM
  #126
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,928
vCash: 500
I don't even agree that we have bad depth. Our 3rd line should be very capable of scoring. With Miller and Kreider on it it has two guys who have offensive potential who can make things happen (yes, Kreider hasn't done that yet but he still has the ability to and clearly compared to other options has the best chance). Say you add in Zuccarello and now that's a pretty offensive 3rd line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
An "elite" player making 7.5 mil isn't supposed to have a great game when he feels like it. He's had maybe 10 good games all year. Sorry, but I want consistency from an "elite" player with that type of cap hit.
If you really want me to I can look up tomorrow other 80 pt scorers who have had stretches of only around 18 points in 30 and prove to you that it is more common than you think (as well as finding their standard deviation in points/game to further prove it [see below]).

I find it funny that you guys all blame Gaborik for being inconsistent but want to add depth guys. By definition depth guys offense is inconsistent - not even to their own fault. If you're a 35-40 point player you're going to have lots of game where you provide no offense ("oh but they hit and do all sorts of other things..." doesn't matter if you don't generate offense). An inconsistent Gaborik is still more consistent than a depth player by far. Obviously he hasn't had a great year but he has been very good the last three games and you need to just wait things out and be patient...you don't make rash decisions because a proven guy is underperforming.

Additionally trading a player when they are underperforming is a horrible misallocation of resources. If you really didn't like Gaborik and wanted to trade him you should have been arguing to trade him in the offseason after his 40 goal year last year (well..let's assume he wasn't injured because that obviously effects things). Not saying anyone in particular wasn't but if you want to get rid of your top guys do it when they are playing well not when you are angry at them for not getting the job done and likely getting lowballed by other teams.


So essentially - Gaborik isn't even inconsistent (at least no more than his comparable players are). I already proved that a week or two ago showing that his standard deviation of shots/game is right around the average of a bunch of similar quality goal scorers. Whether or not the puck goes in at that point is really just variance...sometimes you get bounces, sometimes you consistently run into hot goalies, sometimes things don't go your way. If you're expecting points every game and a top notch hard working type effort every game than maybe the problem is not Gaborik but rather your expectation of what consistent means and how a player should play.

SA16 is offline  
Old
03-21-2013, 10:18 PM
  #127
Heyoooo*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
I don't even agree that we have bad depth. Our 3rd line should be very capable of scoring. With Miller and Kreider on it it has two guys who have offensive potential who can make things happen (yes, Kreider hasn't done that yet but he still has the ability to and clearly compared to other options has the best chance). Say you add in Zuccarello and now that's a pretty offensive 3rd line.



If you really want me to I can look up tomorrow other 80 pt scorers who have had stretches of only around 18 points in 30 and prove to you that it is more common than you think.

I find it funny that you guys all blame Gaborik for being inconsistent but want to add depth guys. By definition depth guys offense is inconsistent - not even to their own fault. If you're a 35-40 point player you're going to have lots of game where you provide no offense ("oh but they hit and do all sorts of other things..." doesn't matter if you don't generate offense). An inconsistent Gaborik is still more consistent than a depth player by far. Obviously he hasn't had a great year but he has been very good the last three games and you need to just wait things out and be patient...you don't make rash decisions because a proven guy is underperforming.

Additionally trading a player when they are underperforming is a horrible misallocation of resources. If you really didn't like Gaborik and wanted to trade him you should have been arguing to trade him in the offseason after his 40 goal year last year (well..let's assume he wasn't injured because that obviously effects things). Not saying anyone in particular wasn't but if you want to get rid of your top guys do it when they are playing well not when you are angry at them for not getting the job done and likely getting lowballed by other teams.

I would agree about the third line (they looked great tonight) but remind yourself who the coach is. Thats why I say theres no bottom six.

This guy thinks we're one Gaborik depth trade from being a contender.

Nash, Hagelin, Stepan and Callahan (when the latter three actually manage to score) are the only threats this team has offensively.

Still have yet to see what Gaborik yields, if hes even traded.

Im severely disappointed in Richards.

Heyoooo* is offline  
Old
03-21-2013, 10:21 PM
  #128
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 45,664
vCash: 50
Stop flaming each other please.

__________________
"New day, new hope. Richards Buyout 2014". -Ail
Bob Richards is offline  
Old
03-21-2013, 10:21 PM
  #129
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,092
vCash: 500
Rangers went from cup favorites and everyone on this board going crazy wanting the season to start to a horrible/awful/bad team based on less than 30 games in a shortened season with no camp, playing in a defensive first system that kills any chance of scoring goals.

Yet for some reason they would rather blow up the team they were all pleasuring themselves to rather than try a coaching change.

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
03-21-2013, 10:22 PM
  #130
Heyoooo*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
You are absolutely correct 100%.

The bottom 6 is by far the worst in the NHL. Every player on it sucks.

Pretty much.

Our 4th line is non-existant.

Heyoooo* is offline  
Old
03-21-2013, 10:23 PM
  #131
Heyoooo*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Rangers went from cup favorites and everyone on this board going crazy wanting the season to start to a horrible/awful/bad team based on less than 30 games in a shortened season with no camp, playing in a defensive first system that kills any chance of scoring goals.

Yet for some reason they would rather blow up the team they were all pleasuring themselves to rather than try a coaching change.

Perhaps we're just more willing to live and die by talent than others. Thats all I can really surmise from this.

Im so tired of clawing and dragging wins over the years (probably nowhere near as close as Hank) so I naturally cling to talent when its brought in.

Heyoooo* is offline  
Old
03-21-2013, 10:25 PM
  #132
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Perhaps we're just more willing to live and die by talent than others. Thats all I can really surmise from this.
honestly I hate to use baseball as an example, but I dont know if people watched the Yankees last year in the playoffs when absolutely no one could hit yet Arod and Granderson sat at times.. You live and die with your best team, always.

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:13 PM
  #133
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,055
vCash: 500
What's it been now, 2 goals in the last 20 games or so? Hard to keep track.

wolfgaze is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:14 PM
  #134
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,615
vCash: 500
Surely plenty of teams will be interested in him come deadline day...

OverTheCap is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:16 PM
  #135
z1co80
The Incredible Hank
 
z1co80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Scotland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 4,899
vCash: 50
Was he playing tonight?

z1co80 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:16 PM
  #136
M0rbid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cave
Country: United States
Posts: 7,735
vCash: 500
How do you translate "waste of roster spot" in slovak language?

M0rbid is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:17 PM
  #137
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Rangers went from cup favorites and everyone on this board going crazy wanting the season to start to a horrible/awful/bad team based on less than 30 games in a shortened season with no camp, playing in a defensive first system that kills any chance of scoring goals.

Yet for some reason they would rather blow up the team they were all pleasuring themselves to rather than try a coaching change.
bring in Sather and cut this donkey

NikC is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:17 PM
  #138
5 4 Fighting
Big member
 
5 4 Fighting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bk all day
Country: United States
Posts: 4,223
vCash: 400
Something is seriously wrong here...Tortorella and Gaborik certainly don't get along or understand each other.

5 4 Fighting is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:21 PM
  #139
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Something is seriously wrong here...Tortorella and Gaborik certainly don't get along or understand each other.
Or Gaborik is a guy who depends solely on his speed and shot, and is now on the wrong side of 30 coming off shoulder surgery and major groin issues throughout his career.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:37 PM
  #140
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
You have to at least entertain the thought, the idea, that maybe Gaborik will not be the Gaborik of last season, again.

I know that I have been thinking about that. Never mind the so-called proof of his good-bad-good-bad cycle. I don't really buy that, but I do now find myself thinking that Marian may never find his groove again with NYR.
That truly does make me think differently now.

trilobyte is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 09:46 PM
  #141
Baby Punisher
Registered User
 
Baby Punisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 500
The team is playing invisible not just Gaborik. I think Richards play has been much worse than Gabs. I give Gabs a pass on this season based on what he has done in the past before I give Richards one.

Baby Punisher is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 10:09 PM
  #142
JeffMangum
Ra shi da
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 55,186
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Something is seriously wrong here...Tortorella and Gaborik certainly don't get along or understand each other.
He's had 2 40 goal seasons under this exact coach!

When is it the player's fault? In this instance, it is 100% on Gaborik. His effort out there is 30/70. His shot looks gone, and he's not going to the net anymore.

__________________

#TannerGlass2014
SEEN YOUR VIDEO!
#SheWentToHarvard
JeffMangum is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 10:16 PM
  #143
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,928
vCash: 500
And part of the factor was during those two season he was played on his actual position and was getting first unit power play time. Now he is for some reason played out of position and playing on the second powerplay unit with the likes of Brian Boyle.

Not saying he's played well because he hasn't but the blame has to go both ways. Additionally I would say hes played very well over the last several games so this is a pretty poor time to pass blame to him.

If I recall wasn't Torts logic on shifting him to LW such that he was intending on playing him with Stepan who is a right handed shot and he thought it would make it easier for Stepan to set him up being able to pass on his forehand side? Well, if that's true (and I can't argue that it's necessarily bad logic - though if it clearly isn't working it's time to change but to how it was) then why is Gaborik possibly still playing LW when with different centers?

SA16 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 10:21 PM
  #144
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,092
vCash: 500
I dont even care what they do with Gaborik anymore. If were not getting rid of ********* Torts, trade Gaborik.

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 10:23 PM
  #145
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
He's had 2 40 goal seasons under this exact coach!

When is it the player's fault? In this instance, it is 100% on Gaborik. His effort out there is 30/70. His shot looks gone, and he's not going to the net anymore.
dunno it could be perhaps that he's played his off wing the majority of the year. It could be perhaps a problem that he's been 3rd on the depth chart for RW despite outscoring both Nash and Callahan every season, or maybe its playing with guys like Brian Boyle or Jt Miller, or maybe he's just tired of playing this system and carrying the offense for years.

or maybe he's just having an off year. who knows, but either way Torts and Gaborik do not seem to get along

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 10:35 PM
  #146
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
He's had 2 40 goal seasons under this exact coach!

When is it the player's fault? In this instance, it is 100% on Gaborik. His effort out there is 30/70. His shot looks gone, and he's not going to the net anymore.
I agree.
This is not a coaching thing. To be more precise, there are a lot of variables when it comes to hockey. It is much, much more of a team game than any major sport I can think of.

It's pretty much impossible for anyone, including the coach and support staff, to figure out why players under-achieve.

My idea was that Gaborik would find it, and we would see what we saw before. I am starting to realize that it may not happen at all.

trilobyte is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 10:38 PM
  #147
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
I agree.
This is not a coaching thing. To be more precise, there are a lot of variables when it comes to hockey. It is much, much more of a team game than any major sport I can think of.

It's pretty much impossible for anyone, including the coach and support staff, to figure out why players under-achieve.

My idea was that Gaborik would find it, and we would see what we saw before. I am starting to realize that it may not happen at all.
But in the same time you have to put a player in the best position to succeed. In an extreme example if for some reason you played Dan Girardi at forward and that doesn't work is that Girardi's fault? Is he no longer good? You gotta put the guy back at his actual position and see how he performs. Clearly Gaborik has not performed to his abilities this year but Tortarella has done nothing but hurt his performance.

SA16 is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 11:48 PM
  #148
Doctor King Schultz
Garian Maborik
 
Doctor King Schultz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,171
vCash: 500
Gaborik is being wasted playing on the LW. He's also wasted playing with Miller and Callahan. He simply isn't the kind of hockey player that is going to work being placed in any position and line combination. I think his best fit is as Richards RW if Richards picks up his play. Otherwise, neither are going to accomplish anything this season.

Doctor King Schultz is offline  
Old
03-28-2013, 11:50 PM
  #149
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 45,664
vCash: 50
Gaborik is a super skilled guy who needs super skilled guys to feed him the puck. Callahan storming around the ice like it's Normandy beach isn't going to help him much. I've never seen him have much chemistry with Stepan, Boyle is an anchor and Richards (while good with Gabs) is (beating that horse again) just awful this season.

Bob Richards is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 01:09 AM
  #150
Heyoooo*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Gaborik is a super skilled guy who needs super skilled guys to feed him the puck. Callahan storming around the ice like it's Normandy beach isn't going to help him much. I've never seen him have much chemistry with Stepan, Boyle is an anchor and Richards (while good with Gabs) is (beating that horse again) just awful this season.

What super skilled guys did Gaborik have in Minnesota and his first two years here?

Thats a total myth.

The guy just needs to be on his RW with a center who can keep up with him, of course, when he actually uses his speed.

Heyoooo* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.