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03-29-2013, 12:10 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
No way I do MDZ, Kreider, and a 1st for Backes. The most I would offer is Girardi, 1st, and Boyle for Backes and Schwartz. He hasn't even sniffed 75 points. This team has a hard on for Americans though so I wouldn't doubt it. We need to blend in more Canadians/Europeans. Guys with skill, not just an American last name.
That's a pretty insulting offer to the Blues.

David Backes is cream of the crop when it comes to powerforwards. He is not just a forward based on name. He is a captain and a very versatile forward.

Factor in his elite defensive game, a player who had one of the best possession ratings last year, he can easily propel a team to contenders if he is our 2C.

This would be like our version of getting Mike Richards from the Flyers like the Kings did last year.

Have to give to get.

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03-29-2013, 12:10 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
That's exactly my point. If JT Miller is your 2C in the Atlantic, you have no hopes of ever winning a title.
That's just for this season only. Slather will address the teams needs after we miss the playoffs or get eliminated. With Richards bought out, we can think about what our next move would be. Miller is barely NHL caliber, he plays like he is in an in-house game at his home rink when he's out there. He has a severe case of cowboyitis. I'm still pissed we took Mcilrath instead of Tarasenko.

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03-29-2013, 12:11 AM
  #253
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Detroit did not establish themselves as a perennial contender by bringing a guy like Pyatt on board.
They distinguished themselves by avoiding players who do not know how to score. The Red Wings do not want placeholders, they want contributors.

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03-29-2013, 12:12 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
I got a better idea, why don't we trade for Anisimov and put him as the 2nd or 3rd line center.
Skill, defensive awareness, huge frame, potential. I miss him the most.
CBJ wouldn't want to move their best forward.

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03-29-2013, 12:13 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
We need an Anisimov-type player but trading Miller for him is asinine asset management.

And I'm really not high in Anisimov. I think he'll always be a very nice regular season player who forgets to show up in the spring. His game does not translate well into the playoffs. His battle level needs to rise, especially in the corners. The fact that he's maddeningly inconsistent/streaky makes it even worse.
Anisimov has way more value than Miller.

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03-29-2013, 12:14 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Backes is turning 29 this coming May. You don't trade youth and another 1st round pick for that.

I'm trying to figure out your schtick here. Before, you wanted to blow up the entire team and start over. Now you want to pull a classic Sather move and move the kids for a guy staring down 30.

It's things like that which will keep us in NHL purgatory forever.
I want to pull a rebuild if the right guys aren't available. If a Backes type is being shopped, well that changes right away.

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03-29-2013, 12:14 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
That's a pretty insulting offer to the Blues.

David Backes is cream of the crop when it comes to powerforwards. He is not just a forward based on name. He is a captain and a very versatile forward.

Factor in his elite defensive game, a player who had one of the best possession ratings last year, he can easily propel a team to contenders if he is our 2C.

This would be like our version of getting Mike Richards from the Flyers like the Kings did last year.

Have to give to get.
Or how about our version of Drury? A versatile captain of a team who is a great center and has great defensive awareness...look how that turned out. And Drury was a better offensive player than Backes was, and just about as versatile in his hey-day. I wouldn't be surprised if David came here and the wheels fell off. So my offer is not frugal because of me trying to insult the Blues, I'm a knowledgable fan. It's just that I would be hesitant to give up my organization's only PMD and the future of the blue-line, my top prospect, and a 1st rounder when I already traded one for a star.

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03-29-2013, 12:14 AM
  #258
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The idea of trading Columbus more assets in exchange for things we previously owned (AA/Our own ****ing 1st round pick) actually makes me sick.

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03-29-2013, 12:15 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
That's just for this season only. Slather will address the teams needs after we miss the playoffs or get eliminated. With Richards bought out, we can think about what our next move would be. Miller is barely NHL caliber, he plays like he is in an in-house game at his home rink when he's out there. He has a severe case of cowboyitis. I'm still pissed we took Mcilrath instead of Tarasenko.
What 2Cs can we realistically look for when Richards is bought out without giving up MDZ/Kreider/1st?

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03-29-2013, 12:16 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I want to pull a rebuild if the right guys aren't available. If a Backes type is being shopped, well that changes right away.
But to me, trading for a guy like Backes puts virtually all stock into winning a cup within the next two seasons. Our top guys and bottom 6 aren't scoring this season and I don't see much of a future with Gaborik and Richards for the next one. Backes would get here and it would essentially be the same as we have now.

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03-29-2013, 12:16 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Anisimov has way more value than Miller.
For the first 82 games of the year.

AA is a ghost in tight-checking games, i.e. the playoffs. He's entirely too soft in the corners/on the boards, and is one of the most inconsistent/streaky players I've ever seen here.

He's really overrated amongst NYR fans. He's a solid player, but shouldn't be sniffing a contender's top-6.

And we have no clue what Miller's ceiling is. AA was never going to make it here, he's much better off playing for a CLB type team.

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03-29-2013, 12:17 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
CBJ wouldn't want to move their best forward.
They already did this past summer, they can do it again depending on the offer.

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03-29-2013, 12:18 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
The idea of trading Columbus more assets in exchange for things we previously owned (AA/Our own ****ing 1st round pick) actually makes me sick.
It's not only sickening, it's IQ-lowering.

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03-29-2013, 12:18 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
For the first 82 games of the year.

AA is a ghost in tight-checking games, i.e. the playoffs. He's entirely too soft in the corners/on the boards, and is one of the most inconsistent/streaky players I've ever seen here.

He's really overrated amongst NYR fans. He's a solid player, but shouldn't be sniffing a contender's top-6.

And we have no clue what Miller's ceiling is. AA was never going to make it here, he's much better off playing for a CLB type team.
As I said in another thread, he is a decaffeinated version of Gaborik. It would be nice to have him again, but considering how the rest of the team is performing, it'd be negated.

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03-29-2013, 12:19 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
For the first 82 games of the year.

AA is a ghost in tight-checking games, i.e. the playoffs. He's entirely too soft in the corners/on the boards, and is one of the most inconsistent/streaky players I've ever seen here.

He's really overrated amongst NYR fans. He's a solid player, but shouldn't be sniffing a contender's top-6.

And we have no clue what Miller's ceiling is. AA was never going to make it here, he's much better off playing for a CLB type team.
Sorry man, you lost me at Miller having higher potential than Anisimov. He oozes skill and potential, along with defensive awareness, and a much bigger frame than Miller. He was also never a turnover machine. Miller has cowboyitis, Anisimov is a much smarter player, who has better senses.

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03-29-2013, 12:21 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Sorry man, you lost me at Miller having higher potential than Anisimov. He oozes skill and potential, along with defensive awareness, and a much bigger frame than Miller. He was also never a turnover machine. Miller has cowboyitis, Anisimov is a much smarter player, who has better senses.
Well, he never actually said that Miller has more potential, just that we really don't know what it is.

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03-29-2013, 12:21 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Sorry man, you lost me at Miller having higher potential than Anisimov. He oozes skill and potential, along with defensive awareness, and a much bigger frame than Miller. He's was also never a turnover machine. Miller has cowboyitis, Anisimov is a much smarter player, who has better senses.
You lost me when you said bring back AA.

Guy would have never shown up for us in the playoffs. He can ooze all the skill and potential he wants, his problems are all in his mind. Soft+inconsistent+streaky= see you later Arty. He was never going to make it here, for either the NYR or Torts.

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03-29-2013, 12:21 AM
  #268
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Or how about our version of Drury? A versatile captain of a team who is a great center and has great defensive awareness...look how that turned out. And Drury was a better offensive player than Backes was, and just about as versatile in his hey-day. I wouldn't be surprised if David came here and the wheels fell off. So my offer is not frugal because of me trying to insult the Blues, I'm a knowledgable fan. It's just that I would be hesitant to give up my organization's only PMD and the future of the blue-line, my top prospect, and a 1st rounder when I already traded one for a star.
Del Zotto isn't a PMD, he doesn't have the skating ability to qualify for that. Rarely does he move with the puck up the ice. He's never going to get a fair shake here with Staal and McDonagh on the left side. I say his value is on par with Wayne Simmonds of the Mike Richards trade at the time.

Kreider is a decent prospect, nothing more, nothing less. He is only considered a top prospect because the Rangers prospect pool is fairly thin, hence him becoming overrated by the media. He isn't nearly as good as Brayden Schenn was at the time of the Mike Richards trade.

1st rounder NYR offsets Flyers 2nd rounder with discrepancy in Kreider/Schenn values.

Make no mistake, David Backes is a star player. He was the best forward on the team with the 3rd most points in the league last season. He was also 2nd in Selke voting, an award for the best defensive forward in the league.

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03-29-2013, 12:21 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I want to pull a rebuild if the right guys aren't available. If a Backes type is being shopped, well that changes right away.
You have the same hardon on Backes that Bernie has on Postma.
Kreider + MDZ for Backes? I love Backes, but not that much.

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03-29-2013, 12:22 AM
  #270
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The sad part is we likely wouldn't be having these Backes/Anisimov/Miller conversations if Richards was playing like he did in Tampa and Dallas. The guy was a PPG 1c, what happened to him?

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03-29-2013, 12:22 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
As I said in another thread, he is a caffeinated version of Gaborik. It would be nice to have him again, but considering how the rest of the team is performing, it'd be negated.
That's actually a really good way of putting it, sadly.

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03-29-2013, 12:24 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
The sad part is we likely wouldn't be having these Backes/Anisimov/Miller conversations if Richards was playing like he did in Tampa and Dallas. The guy was a PPG 1c, what happened to him?
I have no ****ing clue.

He was an absolute monster in Dallas. Created havoc in the offensive zone nearly every shift.

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03-29-2013, 12:25 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Kreider is a decent prospect, nothing more, nothing less. He is only considered a top prospect because the Rangers prospect pool is fairly thin, hence him becoming overrated by the media. He isn't nearly as good as Brayden Schenn was at the time of the Mike Richards trade.
You are just wrong on Kreider. brutally so. That package of size, skating, shot and speed is more than decent

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Make no mistake, David Backes is a star player. He was the best forward on the team with the 3rd most points in the league last season. He was also 2nd in Selke voting, an award for the best defensive forward in the league.
He is, but he is not worth Kreider + MDZ

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03-29-2013, 12:26 AM
  #274
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But to me, trading for a guy like Backes puts virtually all stock into winning a cup within the next two seasons. Our top guys and bottom 6 aren't scoring this season and I don't see much of a future with Gaborik and Richards for the next one. Backes would get here and it would essentially be the same as we have now.
Backes is in the prime of his career. He has no history of injury. It's obviously a risk, but it's worth taking for a player of his caliber. He is the 3rd best defensive forward in the league behind Datsyuk and Bergeron. Having a Backes allows us to have a much more effective line-matching system. He dominated possession last year (and is doing again this year) against the opposing team's top lines.

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03-29-2013, 12:26 AM
  #275
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It can't be Tortorella either, because he was a Conn-Smythe on his team and scored 90+ points in Tampa and in Dallas. Jesus christ I don't get it...maybe it was his short hair? Imagine Brad cuts all his hair off and starts scoring left and right. LOL.

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