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Old
03-29-2013, 12:28 AM
  #276
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They already did this past summer, they can do it again depending on the offer.
Not quite. Completely different situations. For one, Nash had a NMC and forced Howson to shop him. Anisimov does not have that power.

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03-29-2013, 12:31 AM
  #277
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I have no ****ing clue.

He was an absolute monster in Dallas. Created havoc in the offensive zone nearly every shift.
He was very sheltered in Dallas his final season there.

3rd amongst QUALCOMP amongst Dallas centers behind Ribeiro and Ott.

Didn't even dominate possession despite being sheltered.

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03-29-2013, 12:33 AM
  #278
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Backes is in the prime of his career. He has no history of injury. It's obviously a risk, but it's worth taking for a player of his caliber. He is the 3rd best defensive forward in the league behind Datsyuk and Bergeron. Having a Backes allows us to have a much more effective line-matching system. He dominated possession last year (and is doing again this year) against the opposing team's top lines.
Backes is a VERY good hockey player. I get that. But if we trade kids like MDZ and Kreider for him and then throw in Gaborik being traded somewhere and Richards being bought out, what are we going to ice for these games? The bottom 6 would get revamped again and it would just be another lost season due to a juggling act with the forwards.

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03-29-2013, 12:34 AM
  #279
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You are just wrong on Kreider. brutally so. That package of size, skating, shot and speed is more than decent
That's great. I have yet to see why Kreider is any better than Magnus Paajarvi. Both players world class talent, 20 cent brains. Both are what you say very North-South players, hardly difference makers. Brawns over brains again.

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He is, but he is not worth Kreider + MDZ
Disagree. People are severely undervaluing Backes and overvaluing Rangers property.

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03-29-2013, 12:35 AM
  #280
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It can't be Tortorella either, because he was a Conn-Smythe on his team and scored 90+ points in Tampa and in Dallas. Jesus christ I don't get it...maybe it was his short hair? Imagine Brad cuts all his hair off and starts scoring left and right. LOL.

Ah, the ole reverse Samson. At this point I'd try anything to get Brad going again.

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03-29-2013, 12:36 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Backes is in the prime of his career. He has no history of injury. It's obviously a risk, but it's worth taking for a player of his caliber. He is the 3rd best defensive forward in the league behind Datsyuk and Bergeron. Having a Backes allows us to have a much more effective line-matching system. He dominated possession last year (and is doing again this year) against the opposing team's top lines.
So you want to trade MDZ, Kreider, and our 1st for Backes. I think we have enough defense-first mentalities in our locker room. You say MDZ is not a PMD because of his skating ability and he doesn't rush the puck up the ice. Under that set of logic, McDonagh is this team's PMD because he's the only one who skates the puck into the offensive zone. Let me tell you why MDZ IS a PMD:

He's the only one on this team with offensive awareness (Aside from Stralman)
He's the only defenseman on this team who can make a beautiful stretch pass from his own zone to spring a forward on a breakaway (look at his pass to Gaborik tonight as an example, and while you're at it, look at the play he made in Philly to give Kreider a shot of confidence)
He is the only defenseman who has a pulse for the offensive side of the game, and you treat him like a throw in for the" third best defensive forward in the league" Which I strongly disagree with. Toews, Mikko Koivu, and Kopitar are better defensive forwards who outscore him right off the bat.

Don't look at the Blue's point totals last year as an indicator of Backes' defensive value. With Pietrangelo, Steen, and Oshie on the team, he has tons of help. It's horrible asset management to trade our PMD and future of our blueline, a 1st, and Kreider (who is a physical specimen, he's 6'3", 225 lbs, and 21 years old, with incredible speed.) I bet you if he played center you wouldn't want to trade him at all.

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03-29-2013, 12:36 AM
  #282
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Don't get Kershaw going on Backes, nobody wants to see that

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03-29-2013, 12:40 AM
  #283
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Of course, he's right as far as Backes would look great as our 2C...but there's really nothing we could offer them imo to entice that deal.

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03-29-2013, 12:41 AM
  #284
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That's great. I have yet to see why Kreider is any better than Magnus Paajarvi. Both players world class talent, 20 cent brains. Both are what you say very North-South players, hardly difference makers. Brawns over brains again.



Disagree. People are severely undervaluing Backes and overvaluing Rangers property.
It's funny you say that.
MPS has been in the league 1 more year than Kreider.
I am not sure if you were around last year, but how many goals has MPS scored in the playoffs? undervaluing Kreider much?

As to Backes, nobody is denying he is a good player, it's the price you want to trade him for.

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03-29-2013, 12:58 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Backes is a VERY good hockey player. I get that. But if we trade kids like MDZ and Kreider for him and then throw in Gaborik being traded somewhere and Richards being bought out, what are we going to ice for these games? The bottom 6 would get revamped again and it would just be another lost season due to a juggling act with the forwards.
Well with Richards and Gaborik gone, you clear nearly 15m in capspace.

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My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($4.000m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Gabriel Bourque ($0.775m) / David Backes ($4.500m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Jesper Fasth ($0.900m) / Mike Fisher ($3.990m5.0%) / Mats Zuccarello ($0.735m)
Micheal Haley ($0.600m) / J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Darroll Powe ($1.067m)
Arron Asham ($1.000m) / Nick Palmieri ($0.635m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.500m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
Rob Scuderi ($4.000m) / Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
Adrian Aucoin ($2.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brad Richards
Traded: Brian Boyle
Traded: Taylor Pyatt
Traded: Michael Del Zotto
Traded: Marian Gaborik
Traded: Chris Kreider
Traded: 2014 First
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,828,583; BONUSES: $1,412,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,883,917
You add in Backes, who makes a bargain $4.5m.

I hypothesized a Gaborik to Nashville trade for Bourque Fisher and a 1st.

NYR sign hometown guy Rob Scuderi in the offseason to a 2yr 8mil contract. Sign Aucoin 1 yr 2mil for depth.

Team has a lot of 'jam' and pretty much everyone on the roster are 'Torts Kinda Guys'. This also sets us up well financially cap wise and we can make a big splash once again when the CBA rises.

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03-29-2013, 01:02 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Well with Richards and Gaborik gone, you clear nearly 15m in capspace.



You add in Backes, who makes a bargain $4.5m.

I hypothesized a Gaborik to Nashville trade for Bourque Fisher and a 1st.

NYR sign hometown guy Rob Scuderi in the offseason to a 2yr 8mil contract. Sign Aucoin 1 yr 2mil for depth.

Team has a lot of 'jam' and pretty much everyone on the roster are 'Torts Kinda Guys'. This also sets us up well financially cap wise and we can make a big splash once again when the CBA rises.
If you got me Rob Scuderi, I'd have you be the GM right now

That is a pretty good looking team, good top 9 with grit and skill throughout and a versatile 4th line.

And you were nice enough not to trade Callahan

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03-29-2013, 01:05 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Team has a lot of 'jam' and pretty much everyone on the roster are 'Torts Kinda Guys'. This also sets us up well financially cap wise and we can make a big splash once again when the CBA rises.

**** that. Tortorella needs to go.

Not basing the future of this team around that *******.

He needs to be gone by summer, especially if this team doesnt make the playoffs.


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03-29-2013, 01:10 AM
  #288
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So you want to trade MDZ, Kreider, and our 1st for Backes. I think we have enough defense-first mentalities in our locker room. You say MDZ is not a PMD because of his skating ability and he doesn't rush the puck up the ice. Under that set of logic, McDonagh is this team's PMD because he's the only one who skates the puck into the offensive zone. Let me tell you why MDZ IS a PMD:
Yes, McDonagh is the team's best PMD. MDZ is a PPQB, but not a player who effectively rushes the puck out his own end, hence I can't label him as a puck mover.

Quote:
He's the only one on this team with offensive awareness (Aside from Stralman)
He's the only defenseman on this team who can make a beautiful stretch pass from his own zone to spring a forward on a breakaway (look at his pass to Gaborik tonight as an example, and while you're at it, look at the play he made in Philly to give Kreider a shot of confidence)
It's pretty obvious that MDZ is by far the most talented offensive blue liner on the team. It's in his genes to try and help the team by generating offense with his breakout passes. However, this doesn't signify to me that he's a PMD. Dennis Wideman for example has a good breakout pass and shot, but he is slow as hell. He is not a PMD, like MDZ isn't, well in my opinion.

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He is the only defenseman who has a pulse for the offensive side of the game, and you treat him like a throw in for the" third best defensive forward in the league" Which I strongly disagree with. Toews, Mikko Koivu, and Kopitar are better defensive forwards who outscore him right off the bat.
2nd in Selke voting, superior advanced stats. Will have to go side with those. (Kopi is close though in terms of pure defense, Backes is better than Toews and Koivu defensively)

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Don't look at the Blue's point totals last year as an indicator of Backes' defensive value. With Pietrangelo, Steen, and Oshie on the team, he has tons of help. It's horrible asset management to trade our PMD and future of our blueline, a 1st, and Kreider (who is a physical specimen, he's 6'3", 225 lbs, and 21 years old, with incredible speed.) I bet you if he played center you wouldn't want to trade him at all.
1. Defensive help? Yeah..... He's their best forward defensively by a fair margin. He is the catalyst for that team. He has help, but he's the one that stands out the most in a good way.

2. MDZ will never get his minutes with Staal and McDonagh here, both superior defenders.

3. Kreider plays wing and not center for a reason, he's not a smart enough player to handle the responsibilities as a center. (Thus far)

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03-29-2013, 01:20 AM
  #289
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It's funny you say that.
MPS has been in the league 1 more year than Kreider.
I am not sure if you were around last year, but how many goals has MPS scored in the playoffs? undervaluing Kreider much?

As to Backes, nobody is denying he is a good player, it's the price you want to trade him for.
MPS simply hasn't been given the opportunity of playing in the playoffs because of the team he plays for. Individually, they are very comparable players.

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03-29-2013, 01:28 AM
  #290
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If you got me Rob Scuderi, I'd have you be the GM right now

That is a pretty good looking team, good top 9 with grit and skill throughout and a versatile 4th line.

And you were nice enough not to trade Callahan
Yeah you can squeeze in a Clowe or Ryder in too. The team I made IMO is much more balanced. 3 solid 2-way lines and a wildcard 4th line.

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03-29-2013, 01:29 AM
  #291
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Yes, McDonagh is the team's best PMD. MDZ is a PPQB, but not a player who effectively rushes the puck out his own end, hence I can't label him as a puck mover.
He's definitely a puck mover, and the best on this team.

His excellent first pass is what makes him one. No one on this team has a first pass nearly as good as MDZ's - McDonagh being the only one that comes close, when he's on his game. DZ can rush the puck, as well. He's got much better hands than McD. Hopefully he can improve on his acceleration a bit, it would definitely help if he had a better first-step. That's pretty much what is holding him back from being an elite offensive defenseman right now - aside from his weak shot choice.

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03-29-2013, 01:38 AM
  #292
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He's definitely a puck mover, and the best on this team.

His excellent first pass is what makes him one. No one on this team has a first pass nearly as good as MDZ's - McDonagh being the only one that comes close, when he's on his game. DZ can rush the puck, as well. He's got much better hands than McD. Hopefully he can improve on his acceleration a bit, it would definitely help if he had a better first-step. That's pretty much what is holding him back from being an elite offensive defenseman right now - aside from his weak shot choice.
I haven't seen him rush the puck as often. He just doesn't have the footspeed it seems. PPQB yes, offensive d-man, yes, PMD, no.

Compare Bouwmeester with Wideman. Bouwmeester agile skater, can fly end to end while Wideman uses his breakout passes. Bouwmeester to me is a PMD, while Wideman is a PPQB.

Pronger had the best first pass in the league, but I hardly considered him a PMD because of his slow skating stride.

Yandle Letang Shattenirk are some guys that are both PPQBs and PMD.

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03-29-2013, 01:38 AM
  #293
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He's definitely a puck mover, and the best on this team.

His excellent first pass is what makes him one. No one on this team has a first pass nearly as good as MDZ's - McDonagh being the only one that comes close, when he's on his game. DZ can rush the puck, as well. He's got much better hands than McD. Hopefully he can improve on his acceleration a bit, it would definitely help if he had a better first-step. That's pretty much what is holding him back from being an elite offensive defenseman right now - aside from his weak shot choice.
I'm telling you right now, if the Rangers ever develop a puck possession game(or get a coach who can run it). You will see Del Zotto's shot improve dramatically.

Guy will never have a hard slap shot, but if he is given enough chances/practice to penetrate the slot with his wrister: the guy will show he can put it in the back of the net.

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03-29-2013, 01:41 AM
  #294
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Guess my definition of "PMD" is different than yours.

To me, a "PMD" is the defenseman that moves the puck out of the zone transitionally, using an excellent first pass. I consider McD a puck carrier.

The Rangers lack a true 'rushing' defenseman. Staal and McDonagh both can provide that element, but they're inconsistent. Which is why having both in the lineup is huge.

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03-29-2013, 01:42 AM
  #295
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I haven't seen him rush the puck as often. He just doesn't have the footspeed it seems. PPQB yes, offensive d-man, yes, PMD, no.

Compare Bouwmeester with Wideman. Bouwmeester agile skater, can fly end to end while Wideman uses his breakout passes. Bouwmeester to me is a PMD, while Wideman is a PPQB.

Pronger had the best first pass in the league, but I hardly considered him a PMD because of his slow skating stride.

Yandle Letang Shattenirk are some guys that are both PPQBs and PMD.
Your confusing what a PMD man is. Its not necessarily a guy who can skate the puck end to end. The only requirement to be a puck moving dman is being able to make tape to tape passes.

A puck carrying defensemen is a guy who can skate from his zone into the next. None of our Dman are Puck carrying defensemen(including McD).

PCD's are extremely rare. Those are guys like Karlsson, Letang, and Campbell.

Also, I have watched quite a bit of Shattenkirk, he is not a PCD(or as much of PCD as McD or Del Z is).

By the way, if you haven't noticed: Torts doesn't like his Dman rushing the puck unless they can catch a team in a line change or a massive defensive breakdown. So we probably have a couple guys who can lead the rush occasionally. But that isn't our system.


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03-29-2013, 02:02 AM
  #296
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Your confusing what a PMD man is. Its not necessarily a guy who can skate the puck end to end. The only requirement to be a puck moving dman is being able to make tape to tape passes.

A puck carrying defensemen is a guy who can skate from his zone into the next. None of our Dman are Puck carrying defensemen(including McD).

PCD's are extremely rare. Those are guys like Karlsson, Letang, and Campbell.

Also, I have watched quite a bit of Shattenkirk, he is not a PCD(or as much of PCD as McD or Del Z is).

By the way, if you haven't noticed: Torts doesn't like his Dman rushing the puck unless they can catch a team in a line change or a massive defensive breakdown. So we probably have a couple guys who can lead the rush occasionally. But that isn't our system.
That was exactly my point. MDZ is a PMD even though McDonagh may be better at carrying the puck, he is our best 2 way Dman. MDZ is the PMD and future of our blue-line.

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03-29-2013, 02:08 AM
  #297
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That was exactly my point. MDZ is a PMD even though McDonagh may be better at carrying the puck, he is our best 2 way Dman. MDZ is the PMD and future of our blue-line.
I have always viewed Del Zotto as essentially as a young version of Thomas Kaberle(with a higher defensive play ceiling). A guy who will consistently put up 40-60 pts a season.

His best asset being his ability to pass the puck.

The only thing missing with Del Z is him being paired with a hard shooting Dman. I can only imagine the amount damage Del Z could do with Shea Weber.


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03-29-2013, 03:40 AM
  #298
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What 2Cs can we realistically look for when Richards is bought out without giving up MDZ/Kreider/1st?
Won't be a popular choice, but Roy is a UFA. Can Horton play C?

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03-29-2013, 04:09 AM
  #299
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Yes, McDonagh is the team's best PMD. MDZ is a PPQB, but not a player who effectively rushes the puck out his own end, hence I can't label him as a puck mover.



It's pretty obvious that MDZ is by far the most talented offensive blue liner on the team. It's in his genes to try and help the team by generating offense with his breakout passes. However, this doesn't signify to me that he's a PMD. Dennis Wideman for example has a good breakout pass and shot, but he is slow as hell. He is not a PMD, like MDZ isn't, well in my opinion.



2nd in Selke voting, superior advanced stats. Will have to go side with those. (Kopi is close though in terms of pure defense, Backes is better than Toews and Koivu defensively)



1. Defensive help? Yeah..... He's their best forward defensively by a fair margin. He is the catalyst for that team. He has help, but he's the one that stands out the most in a good way.

2. MDZ will never get his minutes with Staal and McDonagh here, both superior defenders.

3. Kreider plays wing and not center for a reason, he's not a smart enough player to handle the responsibilities as a center. (Thus far)
If MDZ can get his annual 40 points, I don't care how many minutes he gets, you shouldn't either.

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03-29-2013, 04:10 AM
  #300
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If Calgary is going to start moving bodies out how about a Pyatt for Sarich deal?

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