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The Foligno- Methot Trade In Hindsight

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03-24-2013, 12:12 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
From an Ottawa point of view I'd actually consider it.
Problem is, you just saw the beginning of what should be a great career for Jared Cowen last season. I think that Cowen and Karlsson has the potential to be a Keith/Seabrook or Suter/Weber type pairing for the Sens. Cowen is unbelievably underrated, and is a far better all-around player than he's given credit for. I would honestly make that deal if I were the Jackets - Cowen has top-pair, shutdown potential.

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03-24-2013, 12:27 PM
  #27
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Really?

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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Problem is, you just saw the beginning of what should be a great career for Jared Cowen last season. I think that Cowen and Karlsson has the potential to be a Keith/Seabrook or Suter/Weber type pairing for the Sens. Cowen is unbelievably underrated, and is a far better all-around player than he's given credit for. I would honestly make that deal if I were the Jackets - Cowen has top-pair, shutdown potential.
I'm liking Tim Erixon more and more every game, haven't seen as much of Cowen obviously but it seems we would need a little more for this trade to work. On the other hand if Sore Loser likes it.. his knowledge on players is far better than mine.

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03-24-2013, 12:54 PM
  #28
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I'm glad Methot is playing well.
We simply didn't need a Dman at his price level, after blowing the wad on Wiz, getting Jack J., and being flush with good young and cheap defenders.

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03-24-2013, 01:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
I'm liking Tim Erixon more and more every game, haven't seen as much of Cowen obviously but it seems we would need a little more for this trade to work. On the other hand if Sore Loser likes it.. his knowledge on players is far better than mine.
As a 20-year old rookie, Cowen spent time in Ottawa's top-4, played in all 82 games, and was definitely a part of the playoff run that gave the Rangers all they could handle. Even had he not played in Spokane, I would tell you that he's one of the most consistent, hard working defenders I've ever seen in the WHL ... and he's 6'5", 230 pounds. Once he's developed his all-around game, look out...

While I'm a big fan of Erixon, I don't see that kind of upside with him. I see a good second pair guy - if everything works out for him. As for Brassard, if it brings us a guy like Jared Cowen in return, I'll personally call him up and inform him of the trade.

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03-24-2013, 01:19 PM
  #30
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I think injuries have stunted Cowen's development, hip and knee injuries worry me about his mobility. He also makes some really strange decisions with the puck and was brutal against the Rangers in the playoffs. At his peak I think Cowen is what Methot is in Ottawa right now. Plays 23:00mins a night, relatively physical and can shutdown people. I don't see his offensive game developing much more maybe 30pts max per year. As a sens fan I would consider it, but I don't think sens management would at all.

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03-24-2013, 01:24 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
As a 20-year old rookie, Cowen spent time in Ottawa's top-4, played in all 82 games, and was definitely a part of the playoff run that gave the Rangers all they could handle. Even had he not played in Spokane, I would tell you that he's one of the most consistent, hard working defenders I've ever seen in the WHL ... and he's 6'5", 230 pounds. Once he's developed his all-around game, look out...

While I'm a big fan of Erixon, I don't see that kind of upside with him. I see a good second pair guy - if everything works out for him. As for Brassard, if it brings us a guy like Jared Cowen in return, I'll personally call him up and inform him of the trade.
I like Cowen too, but Erixon looks brilliant out there- smarts off the charts. Do you think we could persuade them to take a different package? Oh, and though Ottawa fans like the idea of bringing Brass back, as he is local talent, he would have no center spot there with Turris and Spezza.

Edit: On second thought, there just isn't a need for this sort of trade by either club.


Last edited by major major: 03-24-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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03-24-2013, 01:32 PM
  #32
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Methot has been outstanding for Ottawa makign every partner he has had since Karlsson went down just so much better. However even though Folgino doesn't bring 30 goals he brings a winning attitude and hard work. I feel this team really benefits from having a player with that mentality even when not scoring he is making the other players on the team play harder, I think a guy like this makes the winning streaks more fun and the losing streaks last less longer imo. Personally feel the trade benefits both teams immensely, Ottawa got a solid mobile defender, Columbus got a hard working, grity bottom 6er who can play in the top 6 with injuries, who drives the net and is willing to get dirty. Good trade for both.

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03-24-2013, 03:19 PM
  #33
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Who the hell is Mark Methot?

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03-24-2013, 05:21 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
I'm liking Tim Erixon more and more every game, haven't seen as much of Cowen obviously but it seems we would need a little more for this trade to work. On the other hand if Sore Loser likes it.. his knowledge on players is far better than mine.
IMO, we need to be trading to upgrade our offense and not our defense. I want to be getting back an upgrade at forward not defense if I am going to be trading away a forward and a defenseman.

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03-24-2013, 05:47 PM
  #35
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Who the hell is Mark Methot?
Huh??? If comedy is the subject it's lame...

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03-24-2013, 06:00 PM
  #36
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Huh??? If comedy is the subject it's lame...
Had no idea that I would actually have to explain this. It means that Foligno made me forget Methot was a Jacket. It was amazingly, obviously, rhetorical.

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03-24-2013, 07:15 PM
  #37
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When Methot was with CBJ he showed very little, if any, offensive prowess or game. He had decent size and was an excellent skater but with the additions to the CBJ last year and the improvement of other players Methot became the odd man out.

Trade was definitely good for both teams. I'll be very happy to see where Foligno helps take the team if we can add some additional offensive players to improve scoring...

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03-25-2013, 01:23 PM
  #38
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When you lose alot, everyone looks bad. When you win alot, everyone is a stud. That is the case with Methot. He's a solid dman, top 4 most anywhere in the league (hell yeah I'd take him over Nikitin), if not top pairing. He's probably not as good as Sens fans feel he is atm, but he's also considerably better than most CBJ fans will recall.

Bueachemin, Vermette, Klesla, Chimera, Malhotra, Hejda, GlenX, Methot. None of these guys got the fans too excited in Columbus, but they have all been key players for their teams after Columbus.

I was against this trade from the get go. I always felt Methot was underrated here...maybe I was right, but I can tell you now I'm a big fan of this trade after the fact. Methot would not get the TOI here to justify that salary and Foligno is a huge part of the undercurrent of competitiveness that has swept the lockerroom. I love that guy in Union Blue.


Last edited by Nordique: 03-25-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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03-25-2013, 01:51 PM
  #39
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Is he the way he is playing this year though, or just the way he played there? I mean, Ottawa has the best D in the league if you go by goals against a game, and he is arguably the #1 D man with Karlsson out.

I mean, he is ahead of guys like Phillips and Gonchar...they are top 4 D on any team in the league.

I cant imagine if he was playing like this he wasnt on your top pairing, so it leads me to believe he simply wasnt as good there. Im just curious about why that is.
Watching him in Ottawa this season, he isn't playing any differently than he did in Columbus.

It's likewise for Foligno. It's a good trade for both teams, but I would be really hesitant about parading around Methot like Columbus fans did with Nikitin. I would expect a regression come next season (with regards to Methot's play).


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03-25-2013, 02:24 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
When you lose alot, everyone looks bad. When you win alot, everyone is a stud. That is the case with Methot. He's a solid dman, top 4 most anywhere in the league (hell yeah I'd take him over Nikitin), if not top pairing. He's probably not as good as Sens fans feel he is atm, but he's also considerably better than most CBJ fans will recall.
I'll be honest, I never found Methot to be consistent enough to play the "I would rather have him than xxxx" game. If he likes it up there, let him stay there the rest of his career. He's barely worth the time to think about. I'd rather talk about Hejda, at least he did something while he was here.

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03-25-2013, 02:46 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
When you lose alot, everyone looks bad. When you win alot, everyone is a stud. That is the case with Methot. He's a solid dman, top 4 most anywhere in the league (hell yeah I'd take him over Nikitin), if not top pairing. He's probably not as good as Sens fans feel he is atm, but he's also considerably better than most CBJ fans will recall.

Bueachemin, Vermette, Klesla, Chimera, Malhotra, Hejda, GlenX, Methot. None of these guys got the fans too excited in Columbus, but they have all been key players for their teams after Columbus.
I agree with your point, but I'll quibble with your list a bit. Hejda played his best shutdown hockey in Columbus, and Malhotra and Vermette played many of their best years here.

And Glencross and Beauchemin were just screw ups, but every team has a few of those guys that they give up on too early and lose to the waiver wire or trade throw-ins. I don't know if we're special in that regard.

Klesla might be the best comparison to Methot for your point.

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03-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #42
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I agree with your point, but I'll quibble with your list a bit. Hejda played his best shutdown hockey in Columbus, and Malhotra and Vermette played many of their best years here.

And Glencross and Beauchemin were just screw ups, but every team has a few of those guys that they give up on too early and lose to the waiver wire or trade throw-ins. I don't know if we're special in that regard.

Klesla might be the best comparison to Methot for your point.
You are right, I'm lumping alot of guys into this category, each in fact having their own unique circumstances.

Malhotra, for example, Howson seem to undervalue him, and I think thats easy to do with a guy that plays on a losing team. His solution was to swap that piece out for Pahlsson, a guy with a nice resume, compiled on winning teams. In reality, we downgraded. Malhotra went on to be a big part of a very good SJ team, anchoring the 3rd line, and Pahlsson for the most part was invisible here.

Thats where I'm going with my comment that everyone looks good when you are winning, and we tend to undervalue individual players on losing teams.

I agree, Klesla and Methot, very similar story lines. Its nice to see these guys playing well on their new teams, but it makes you wonder what could have been. Fortunately, our blue line is solid atm, and these guys would be redundant and see to little ice time to justify their contracts.

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03-26-2013, 12:29 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I'll be honest, I never found Methot to be consistent enough to play the "I would rather have him than xxxx" game. If he likes it up there, let him stay there the rest of his career. He's barely worth the time to think about. I'd rather talk about Hejda, at least he did something while he was here.
Well, we'll likely not ever see eye to eye on Methot's value, but regardless, there is really no place for him and that contract on this team.

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03-28-2013, 05:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
You are right, I'm lumping alot of guys into this category, each in fact having their own unique circumstances.

Malhotra, for example, Howson seem to undervalue him, and I think thats easy to do with a guy that plays on a losing team. His solution was to swap that piece out for Pahlsson, a guy with a nice resume, compiled on winning teams. In reality, we downgraded. Malhotra went on to be a big part of a very good SJ team, anchoring the 3rd line, and Pahlsson for the most part was invisible here.

Thats where I'm going with my comment that everyone looks good when you are winning, and we tend to undervalue individual players on losing teams.

I agree, Klesla and Methot, very similar story lines. Its nice to see these guys playing well on their new teams, but it makes you wonder what could have been. Fortunately, our blue line is solid atm, and these guys would be redundant and see to little ice time to justify their contracts.
If you'll recall, Howson made a good offer to Maholtra, who wanted top six money when he's really a good bottom six center. Maholtra priced himself out of the market, then we went to Pahlsson who had a great resume and had done very well in the Cup, then Sammi went and aged himself out of what he was.

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03-28-2013, 08:00 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
If you'll recall, Howson made a good offer to Maholtra, who wanted top six money when he's really a good bottom six center. Maholtra priced himself out of the market, then we went to Pahlsson who had a great resume and had done very well in the Cup, then Sammi went and aged himself out of what he was.
What kind of dollars was Malhotra seeking from the team? Because personally, I would have rather kept him in the fold, if the price were around the same.

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03-28-2013, 08:21 PM
  #46
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What kind of dollars was Malhotra seeking from the team? Because personally, I would have rather kept him in the fold, if the price were around the same.
Malhotra got angry because we told him he wanted too much and then paid Pahlsson around what Malhotra wanted. In the end I think this is a "better the devil you know" situation. We knew what Manny was and while Pahlsson has a grad A resume we would have perhaps done better with Manny. Maybe not though.

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03-28-2013, 08:46 PM
  #47
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Malhotra got angry because we told him he wanted too much and then paid Pahlsson around what Malhotra wanted. In the end I think this is a "better the devil you know" situation. We knew what Manny was and while Pahlsson has a grad A resume we would have perhaps done better with Manny. Maybe not though.
I believe that a part of the problem for the Jackets over the years is a lack of longevity overall. Keeping guys around for more than a couple/three years doesn't help much. The most successful teams tend to be the ones that play and grow together.

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03-28-2013, 09:07 PM
  #48
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What kind of dollars was Malhotra seeking from the team? Because personally, I would have rather kept him in the fold, if the price were around the same.
If I remember correctly, Manny asked for a multi-year deal at $3ish million per year. Howson wasn't even in the neighborhood, so Manny walked, and then we brought in Pahlsson at $3ish million a year.

Then it was too late in the summer for Manny to get a deal like that, but San Jose made him an implicit promise of a deal in the following summer and gave him a one year sub $1million contract. I don't know if it was Manny or San Jose who backed out of that, but the next summer he signed the multi-year $2.5 million deal in Vancouver. Both San Jose and Vancouver fans had very good reports about Manny. Until he got injured he was a good third line center, far more productive than Pahlsson. Definitely a screw up on Howson's part.

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03-29-2013, 08:53 AM
  #49
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If you'll recall, Howson made a good offer to Maholtra, who wanted top six money when he's really a good bottom six center. Maholtra priced himself out of the market, then we went to Pahlsson who had a great resume and had done very well in the Cup, then Sammi went and aged himself out of what he was.
Malhotra would have signed for Pahlsson's contract.

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03-29-2013, 09:00 AM
  #50
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Malhotra would have signed for Pahlsson's contract.
This whole discussion gives me a headache. Manny is perhaps my favorite all-time Jacket, certainly top 3, at least among now-ex-Jackets.

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