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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:21 AM
  #151
VilleEmardHabs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
Except when he put a claim in for sestito.
I don't call Tom Sestito a GOON or A HEAVYWEIGHT. He's a PILLOW PUNCHER.
I'm talking about real GOONS and HEAVY's like John Scott,Colton Orr and Brian McGrattan.

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03-29-2013, 12:29 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
If Bordy doesn't re-up with the Avs before July 1st, he will be a Hab. He seems to fit within the culture that MB wants. Home grown talent is a huge plus. If we can get him up to 7 useful minutes, we've got a keeper.
Even if the Avs don't resign him, Marc Bergevin will never sign him.

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03-29-2013, 12:29 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
If Bordy doesn't re-up with the Avs before July 1st, he will be a Hab. He seems to fit within the culture that MB wants. Home grown talent is a huge plus. If we can get him up to 7 useful minutes, we've got a keeper.
Bourdeleau hasn't even played a second on the penalty kill this year. He could have some upside still, he has been playing a few more shifts than he was to start the season, but if he's targeted as anything it'll hopefully be as an extra forward.

If you want upgrades on Moen and Armstrong you need guys who can replicate what they do. Preference should be given to guys like Boll, Nolan, Clifford, McLeod, or a tough defender, not an otherwise useless player just because he's from Montreal. A guy like Bordeleau is a band-aid, these same arguments will arise when he's waived.


Last edited by Et le But: 03-29-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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Old
03-29-2013, 03:35 AM
  #154
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Think Josh Gorges vs Frazer McLaren ... Frazer McLaren vs Kevin Westgarth

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03-29-2013, 04:17 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by VilleEmardHabs View Post
Think Josh Gorges vs Frazer McLaren ... Frazer McLaren vs Kevin Westgarth
one of them is useful to him team, I'll let you pick wich one it is...

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Old
03-29-2013, 08:36 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bourdeleau hasn't even played a second on the power play this year. He could have some upside still, he has been playing a few more shifts than he was to start the season, but if he's targeted as anything it'll hopefully be as an extra forward.

If you want upgrades on Moen and Armstrong you need guys who can replicate what they do. Preference should be given to guys like Boll, Nolan, Clifford, McLeod, or a tough defender, not an otherwise useless player just because he's from Montreal. A guy like Bordeleau is a band-aid, these same arguments will arise when he's waived.
Seriously?

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Old
03-29-2013, 10:07 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
I bet you would probably try to find a way to get a "boston" flu.
Consider the source before replying.

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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Har Har! Master of debating skills.


Oh and if you manage to organize this, PM me, ill give you my info, would love to have a chance to go skate with bruins players, and laugh about how this guy on the interwebs organized the whole event because he couldn't express himself properly.
You must be new here. Are your other 3,000 posts just as misinformed as this last one? Because I don't rehash on stuff that I've already explained doesn't mean I don't express myself.

The point I'm making is that a lot of people are speaking without knowledge of how it works on the ice, ignoring even what players and former players are saying/thinking.

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03-29-2013, 10:27 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bourdeleau hasn't even played a second on the power play this year. He could have some upside still, he has been playing a few more shifts than he was to start the season, but if he's targeted as anything it'll hopefully be as an extra forward.

If you want upgrades on Moen and Armstrong you need guys who can replicate what they do. Preference should be given to guys like Boll, Nolan, Clifford, McLeod, or a tough defender, not an otherwise useless player just because he's from Montreal. A guy like Bordeleau is a band-aid, these same arguments will arise when he's waived.
Moen, Army or White best never see PP time either.

He can be taught to play decent hockey. No one would be asking him to play PP or PK. 5-10 minutes a game.

Forgive me, I'm just watching The Last Gladiators and I'm pining for the good old days.

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Old
03-29-2013, 11:14 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bourdeleau hasn't even played a second on the power play this year. He could have some upside still, he has been playing a few more shifts than he was to start the season, but if he's targeted as anything it'll hopefully be as an extra forward.

If you want upgrades on Moen and Armstrong you need guys who can replicate what they do. Preference should be given to guys like Boll, Nolan, Clifford, McLeod, or a tough defender, not an otherwise useless player just because he's from Montreal. A guy like Bordeleau is a band-aid, these same arguments will arise when he's waived.
WTF, you want a fourth liner on your Powerplay?

Let's play Moen, White and Halpern on the PP. Yeaaaaaaaahhhh.

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03-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #160
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They'll sign Bourdeleau in the offseason, it seems obvious?

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03-29-2013, 11:37 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
This.

I love that they showed "Bordy" vs Mcgratton as an example because the avs actually lost that game
You know that you cannot use that standard.

If so, the Bruins would be undefeated.

Fighting can change the momentum of a game. It is still on the team to sustain that momentum.

A heavyweight vs heavyweight fight serves primarily one purpose. If you see Thornton running around on the ice and pounding your skill guys, you send out the heavyweight and fight him. Thornton gets all of his adrenalin out of his system and the teams go on to play hockey.

As ugly and pitiful that the Moen fight was against Campbell, it did settle down the game. Sure, the Bruins scored 4 goals afterwards. But the biggest result was that the Habs came back in the 3rd because the teams were playing hockey instead of goonery.

You HAVE to fight back against bullies.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:12 PM
  #162
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I still think that a guy like Boll would be ideal for a 4th liner. I don't hate Westgarth either.

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03-29-2013, 01:47 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by The Doors View Post
They'll sign Bourdeleau in the offseason, it seems obvious?
He'll probably sign an extension in Colorado.

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Old
03-29-2013, 03:29 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post


You must be new here. Are your other 3,000 posts just as misinformed as this last one? Because I don't rehash on stuff that I've already explained doesn't mean I don't express myself.

The point I'm making is that a lot of people are speaking without knowledge of how it works on the ice, ignoring even what players and former players are saying/thinking.
You have very good timing.

This was from the Canadiens website in an article about Prust possibly returning to play against the Rangers.

“He always tells me to keep my game simple, to go in the corners or to move the puck. He helps me alot. It’s great playing with him,” explained Galchenyuk, who clearly took Prust’s lessons to heart in playoff-type atmospheres at the CONSOL Energy Center and TD Garden on Tuesday and Wednesday respectively. “Other teams may not be looking not to hit when he’s around, because everyone plays aggressively all the time. But, when there are tie-ups in front of the net, it’s more secure when Brandon is around. ”


http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=662759

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03-29-2013, 03:39 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
As ugly and pitiful that the Moen fight was against Campbell, it did settle down the game. Sure, the Bruins scored 4 goals afterwards. But the biggest result was that the Habs came back in the 3rd because the teams were playing hockey instead of goonery.
Wait, what?

You are crediting the Moen fight with helping us come back in the 3rd... even though we were ahead by two goals when the fight occured?

Is Moen Nostradamus?

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Old
03-29-2013, 04:02 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You have very good timing.

This was from the Canadiens website in an article about Prust possibly returning to play against the Rangers.

“He always tells me to keep my game simple, to go in the corners or to move the puck. He helps me alot. It’s great playing with him,” explained Galchenyuk, who clearly took Prust’s lessons to heart in playoff-type atmospheres at the CONSOL Energy Center and TD Garden on Tuesday and Wednesday respectively. “Other teams may not be looking not to hit when he’s around, because everyone plays aggressively all the time. But, when there are tie-ups in front of the net, it’s more secure when Brandon is around. ”


http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=662759
You know that they'll come and deny or downplay that or better, they'll ignore it. Ridiculous really...

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03-29-2013, 04:08 PM
  #167
Et le But
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Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
Seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
WTF, you want a fourth liner on your Powerplay?

Let's play Moen, White and Halpern on the PP. Yeaaaaaaaahhhh.
I meant to say penalty kill. Otherwise my point would be wrong - he actually played one second on the power play this year due to a line shift, but has not touched the ice during penalty kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You know that they'll come and deny or downplay that or better, they'll ignore it. Ridiculous really...
Well there's plenty of reasons to downplay a fluff quote, unless you think Desharnais is actually the reason for Pacioretty's NHL success. But this team is better with Prust than without him.

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03-29-2013, 04:11 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I meant to say penalty kill. Otherwise my point would be wrong - he actually played one second on the power play this year due to a line shift, but has not touched the ice during penalty kill.
and during this one second, he was awesome

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03-29-2013, 04:21 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You have very good timing.

This was from the Canadiens website in an article about Prust possibly returning to play against the Rangers.

“He always tells me to keep my game simple, to go in the corners or to move the puck. He helps me alot. It’s great playing with him,” explained Galchenyuk, who clearly took Prust’s lessons to heart in playoff-type atmospheres at the CONSOL Energy Center and TD Garden on Tuesday and Wednesday respectively. “Other teams may not be looking not to hit when he’s around, because everyone plays aggressively all the time. But, when there are tie-ups in front of the net, it’s more secure when Brandon is around. ”


http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=662759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You know that they'll come and deny or downplay that or better, they'll ignore it. Ridiculous really...
Actually we would just point out this part of the quote "Because everyone plays aggressively all the time".

So a fighter doesn't discourage cheap shots, or scare the opposition into playing smaller/cleaner, or even make his teammates play bigger. As so many people have claimed, he only calms down the after whistle scrums. Are the Habs winning/losing the games because there is too much pushing/shoving after the whistle?

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03-29-2013, 04:30 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well there's plenty of reasons to downplay a fluff quote, unless you think Desharnais is actually the reason for Pacioretty's NHL success. But this team is better with Prust than without him.
So the future face of the franchise saying that he feels more secure when Prust is on the ice with him is "fluff" to you? Thanks for proving my point.

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03-29-2013, 04:37 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
So the future face of the franchise saying that he feels more secure when Prust is on the ice with him is "fluff" to you? Thanks for proving my point.
A quote put up by the teams own media department, directly asking Galchenyuk if he's happy a teammate is coming back from injury? That is pretty much the textbook example of a fluff quote. And even in a fluff piece Gally won't claim that Prust around doesn't automatically protect him from physical play:
Quote:
“Other teams may not be looking not to hit when he’s around, because everyone plays aggressively all the time."
He's admitting teams will still look to hit when he's around, because the aggression level is the same. He gives Prust credit for being a guy you want around when there's scrums in front of the net. That's probably true. If I was involved in a shoving match in front of the net, I'd feel better if it was Prust behind me and not say, Cammalleri, for sure.

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03-29-2013, 04:43 PM
  #172
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I'd give a very nice package for Clifford. He is the definition of what this team needs. Probably no chance that LA would trade him though.

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03-29-2013, 05:05 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
So the future face of the franchise saying that he feels more secure when Prust is on the ice with him is "fluff" to you? Thanks for proving my point.
You can't honestly be serious. Yes, prust is awesome. Yes, that's a fluff quote. We can find ones similar from back when gomez was still with us.

" yeah, he's a great guy, a great hockey player, glad to have him with us even if he's struggling right now, I'm sure he'll get back to form soon" etc etc.

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03-29-2013, 05:30 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You know that you cannot use that standard.

If so, the Bruins would be undefeated.

Fighting can change the momentum of a game. It is still on the team to sustain that momentum.

A heavyweight vs heavyweight fight serves primarily one purpose. If you see Thornton running around on the ice and pounding your skill guys, you send out the heavyweight and fight him. Thornton gets all of his adrenalin out of his system and the teams go on to play hockey.

As ugly and pitiful that the Moen fight was against Campbell, it did settle down the game. Sure, the Bruins scored 4 goals afterwards. But the biggest result was that the Habs came back in the 3rd because the teams were playing hockey instead of goonery.

You HAVE to fight back against bullies.
Okay, so the momentum thing: Westgarth beats up Mclaren and Canes lose. When Colton Orr fights, the Leafs overwhelmingly lose. In fact, Leafs fights almost happen in the first five minutes of a game. They do great job of momentum building, tone setting and bullying.

Fight back against the bullies on the scoreboard by scoring on the power play: Chara gets 17 min, we score twice while he's away.

Now, way back when this ridiculous thread was on it 2nd pass, you mentioned all the things a goon brings to the team. You're right. It's important to have a guy who can open the bench door and keep a spot warm.

Otherwise, this thread and the goon arguments are about as useful as the stick in a goon's hands. There are other teams in the league than Boston. A fleet of their goons haven't protected Savard, Horton, and Bergeron. Similarly, a fleet of goons didn't protect Crosby.

Suspensions for illegal hits work (Matt Cooke cleaned up, of all people) and so does scoring on the power play. Last time I checked, the Canadiens problem was a lack of a pure goal scorer who could make a difference in a close game.

Guess what: it still is.

You need seven 20-goal scorers to be a contender by the usual measuring stick. This year we would be on pace to do just that. Check the last 10 cup winners and you'll find good defensive teams, but also teams ranking almost exclusively in the top 5 in goals for.

Check Boston's win and you'll find scoring balance, roughly seven 20-goal scorers, with two of those being d-men.

SCOREBOARD, SCOREBOARD, SCOREBOARD.


Last edited by Chris Nilan: 03-29-2013 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Note: I did promise to never comment on goons b/c it's a ridiculous topic, but this thread has gone on way, way, way too long
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Old
03-29-2013, 06:01 PM
  #175
SouthernHab
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Wait, what?

You are crediting the Moen fight with helping us come back in the 3rd... even though we were ahead by two goals when the fight occured?

Is Moen Nostradamus?
Not what I said at all.

Read it again.

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