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Subban's play since coming back Part 2

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Old
03-29-2013, 03:15 AM
  #476
Mr. Hab
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
People keep saying Chelios... I don't see it. Chelios was crazy tough and dirty. PK is rugged but not in a Chelios kind of way and he's a lot flashier than Chelios ever was.
This is exactly what I think too...
They have rightie (right-handed) in common and heart of a winner, and let's see if PK can also be an iron-man like Chelios...other than that...they have very different styles. No one really has PK Subban's style/speed/skill-set.

Chelios...Shea Weber??
Robinson...Pronger??
Coffey...Niedermayer + Bouwmeester (just for smooth skating)
Bourque...Duncan Keith??
Orr...Orr.
PK Subban...PK Subban.


Orr and PK Subban are one of a kind.
One of a kind I say!


When it's all said and done...I'm thinking there will be TWO dmen that will be known as the best dmen in the history of the NHL...Orr and PK Subban.
I honestly feel like it's been 30 years and more since we've seen a dman like PK Subban. Bash me with your hate/doubts...and I'll further continue enjoying watching PK Subban play like no other dman in the NHL.
I won't forget R.Bourque, Niedermayer, Stevens, Coffey, but...PK Subban is my favorite (yes it's a bit early, but sue me. I haven't enjoyed watching a Hab player as much as I have with PK Subban...thank-you PK for the entertainment/heart/winner's willpower/flashy style...keep it coming).

Those who think he's playing well 'cause of a contract...
I'm going to assume that PK is like Crosby in that they both have the heart of a winner. They always want to play well and win (and they always want to improve/dominate more and more and break records and collect trophies...Subban seems to be like this...I really believe this). I could be wrong but I'd bet lots on Subban's heart/desire/work-ethic/consistency. I really like watching Malkin (huge fan of his style), but I'd always bet more on Crosby for his consistency in desire/heart/will. Same with Subban...he has those ''Crosby'' winner qualities.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 03-29-2013 at 03:37 AM.
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Old
03-29-2013, 04:03 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
This is exactly what I think too...
They have rightie (right-handed) in common and heart of a winner, and let's see if PK can also be an iron-man like Chelios...other than that...they have very different styles. No one really has PK Subban's style/speed/skill-set.

Chelios...Shea Weber??
Robinson...Pronger??
Coffey...Niedermayer + Bouwmeester (just for smooth skating)
Bourque...Duncan Keith??
Orr...Orr.
PK Subban...PK Subban.


Orr and PK Subban are one of a kind.
One of a kind I say!


When it's all said and done...I'm thinking there will be TWO dmen that will be known as the best dmen in the history of the NHL...Orr and PK Subban.
I honestly feel like it's been 30 years and more since we've seen a dman like PK Subban. Bash me with your hate/doubts...and I'll further continue enjoying watching PK Subban play like no other dman in the NHL.
I won't forget R.Bourque, Niedermayer, Stevens, Coffey, but...PK Subban is my favorite (yes it's a bit early, but sue me. I haven't enjoyed watching a Hab player as much as I have with PK Subban...thank-you PK for the entertainment/heart/winner's willpower/flashy style...keep it coming).

Those who think he's playing well 'cause of a contract...
I'm going to assume that PK is like Crosby in that they both have the heart of a winner. They always want to play well and win (and they always want to improve/dominate more and more and break records and collect trophies...Subban seems to be like this...I really believe this). I could be wrong but I'd bet lots on Subban's heart/desire/work-ethic/consistency. I really like watching Malkin (huge fan of his style), but I'd always bet more on Crosby for his consistency in desire/heart/will. Same with Subban...he has those ''Crosby'' winner qualities.
Please don't overrate subban. He's a great player and I think he should win the Norris this year, but don't compare him to Orr that's absolutely ridiculous. These players you're mentioning him with are some of the best of all time, subban has 27 great games under his belt, most of these players have over a 1000 great games and have been invaluable to their respective teams when they won a cup. You cannot put such high expectations on subban at least not yet, doing this will only lead you to disappointment.

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Old
03-29-2013, 05:16 AM
  #478
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Love PK but would take Karlsson over him in a flash. PK is no Bobby Orr.

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03-29-2013, 05:17 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by BubbleGumPlant View Post
Love PK but would take Karlsson over him in a flash. PK is no Bobby Orr.
and yet, according to Mr Hab himself, the kid is even better than Orr...

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03-29-2013, 05:21 AM
  #480
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I kind of agree with this. Who is to say that Subban would be playing like this if he got his long term deal? The short term deal might just be that little extra incentive for subban to push his game to another level.

I'm certainly not convinced that his play would be the same had he achieved his big money contract. This assumption bugs me.
As a Habs fan....you really think PK is motivated by money? C'mon.

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03-29-2013, 11:29 AM
  #481
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
As a Habs fan....you really think PK is motivated by money? C'mon.
Why did he hold out if it were not for money?

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03-29-2013, 11:33 AM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Why did he hold out if it were not for money?
lol well, ..that ends THAT conversation

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03-29-2013, 11:44 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Why did he hold out if it were not for money?
..which he deserves.

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03-29-2013, 11:58 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Why did he hold out if it were not for money?
You know the contract they gave him right? 5.1M for 2y, and you question why he held out?? The kid plays upwards of 30 min yet has the same cap hit as Poti, Sekera, Schultz, Methot, Morris, and a bunch of much weaker players.

So ya, I can understand why he would hold out when what he was being offered was borderline insulting. Can't believe he actually accepted this deal.

And still, none of this means he wouldn't be playing as well if he had signed a bigger deal. Knowing how PK takes his game seriously, his summer training, I don't see why anything would be different.

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03-29-2013, 12:49 PM
  #485
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Compared to last season, Subban plays clearly better.
But it is to be expected at 23.
He seems more rouded off but he is also less alone as Markov can also gather some attention...

The biggest difference in stats by far is the PPP. Since he is with Markov, his PPP has exploded.
His ESP production is similar pace as last season.

But this year, he has 17 PPP in 24 games compared to 14 PPP in 81 games last year.
So four times the pace in PPP (pace of 58 PPP) but same in ESP.

Markov seemed to have that kind of effect on d-men in PP with him.
Last time we had numbers like that was Souray in 2007-8 who had 48 PPP.

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:09 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, according to Mr Hab himself, the kid is even better than Orr...
Orr was dominating the game more than anything you can imagine.

At 21 years old he had 120 points (33G - 87A), 21 points ahead of forward teamate Phil Esposito who was second in the league.
Edit: actually, he is born in March so he reached his 120 points at 22.
Carol Vadnais was second in D-men that year with 44 points.

He did not play long but his level of domination was at par (or better) than Gretzky or Lemieux.
He is certainly the best d-man of all times and maybe the best player of all times.

To attain the same level, Subban would have need to get 125 points (ahead of Sedin) in 2010-2011.

No d-men since can have his name in the same sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleGumPlant View Post
Love PK but would take Karlsson over him in a flash. PK is no Bobby Orr.
Much more difference between Karlsson and Orr than there is between Subban and Karlsson.
Karlsson is no Bobby Orr, Lindstrom is no Bobby Orr and Coffey is no Bobby Orr.


Last edited by 25get: 03-29-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old
03-29-2013, 01:50 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Orr was dominating the game more than anything you can imagine.

At 21 years old he had 120 points (33G - 87A), 21 points ahead of forward teamate Phil Esposito who was second in the league.
Edit: actually, he is born in March so he reached his 120 points at 22.
Carol Vadnais was second in D-men that year with 44 points.

He did not play long but his level of domination was at par (or better) than Gretzky or Lemieux.
He is certainly the best d-man of all times and maybe the best player of all times.

To attain the same level, Subban would have need to get 125 points (ahead of Sedin) in 2010-2011.

No d-men since can have his name in the same sentence.


Much more difference between Karlsson and Orr than there is between Subban and Karlsson.
Karlsson is no Bobby Orr, Lindstrom is no Bobby Orr and Coffey is no Bobby Orr.
Bobby Orr scored 120 in 1970. That's 43 years ago. You cannot compare eras, it's dumb.

Bobby Orr would not score 120pts if he was 22 playing today in a full NHL season. Would not happen. Watch a game from the 70s, then watch one today, it's two different leagues. Players today are in much better conditioning, much faster, stronger, equipment is completely different, opposition is a lot stronger.

Who would be better Orr vs PK had they played at the same time? Who freaking knows. Everything is different. Orr scored 135pts in his last season with the Bruins, when's the last time we saw a player score 135pts in the NHL? Does this mean Orr would be the best player today? No it doesn't.

You can't compare eras. Everything was different.

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03-29-2013, 02:33 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bobby Orr scored 120 in 1970. That's 43 years ago. You cannot compare eras, it's dumb.

Bobby Orr would not score 120pts if he was 22 playing today in a full NHL season. Would not happen. Watch a game from the 70s, then watch one today, it's two different leagues. Players today are in much better conditioning, much faster, stronger, equipment is completely different, opposition is a lot stronger.

Who would be better Orr vs PK had they played at the same time? Who freaking knows. Everything is different. Orr scored 135pts in his last season with the Bruins, when's the last time we saw a player score 135pts in the NHL? Does this mean Orr would be the best player today? No it doesn't.

You can't compare eras. Everything was different.
The entire game changed because of how Bobby Orr played.

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03-29-2013, 03:09 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by BubbleGumPlant View Post
Love PK but would take Karlsson over him in a flash. PK is no Bobby Orr.
Wow I wish I could watch more Ottawa games. I look at how good PK is and how everyone says Karlsson is better than him. Karlsson must be scary good!

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03-29-2013, 03:14 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You know the contract they gave him right? 5.1M for 2y, and you question why he held out?? The kid plays upwards of 30 min yet has the same cap hit as Poti, Sekera, Schultz, Methot, Morris, and a bunch of much weaker players.

So ya, I can understand why he would hold out when what he was being offered was borderline insulting. Can't believe he actually accepted this deal.

And still, none of this means he wouldn't be playing as well if he had signed a bigger deal. Knowing how PK takes his game seriously, his summer training, I don't see why anything would be different.
All is well. Bergevin is happy. Subban is happy. Subban is performing at a very high level and will earn a huge contract that Bergevin will happily sign.

Everyone is happy except a few fans who are still griping about the contract.

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03-29-2013, 05:40 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
All is well. Bergevin is happy. Subban is happy. Subban is performing at a very high level and will earn a huge contract that Bergevin will happily sign.

Everyone is happy except a few fans who are still griping about the contract.
Amen.

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03-29-2013, 05:44 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
As a Habs fan....you really think PK is motivated by money? C'mon.
Why does it have to be about money? A long term deal could have served as validation for subban that he has reached his pinnacle.

A short term deal could have humbled him a little bit, and initiated some hunger for PK to take a another leap in development, while he strives for his pinnacle.

This is all hypothetical talk, but I think its certainly possible that PK would feel more complacent if he got a longer deal this year. What do humans normally tend to do when they get more job security, even if their intentions are good?

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03-29-2013, 08:21 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
All is well. Bergevin is happy. Subban is happy. Subban is performing at a very high level and will earn a huge contract that Bergevin will happily sign.

Everyone is happy except a few fans who are still griping about the contract.
I'm not sure I understand you.

You answer someone's post that was saying PK would perform just as well regardless of how much he'd be making by pointing out that it was all about money seeing how he held out (despite not even believing back in the negotiation threads that management were offering such a small deal).
When I say that his hold out was actually warranted considering how little he got, you answer by saying ''all is well, everyone is happy except a few fans''.

How does this mean that
a) the contract was good.
b) PK would not perform as well with more cash (initial point)

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03-29-2013, 08:23 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Why does it have to be about money? A long term deal could have served as validation for subban that he has reached his pinnacle.

A short term deal could have humbled him a little bit, and initiated some hunger for PK to take a another leap in development, while he strives for his pinnacle.

This is all hypothetical talk, but I think its certainly possible that PK would feel more complacent if he got a longer deal this year. What do humans normally tend to do when they get more job security, even if their intentions are good?
Sure it's certainly possible. It's certainly possible that it would change absolutely nothing too. You can believe whatever you choose.

But there are different types of athletes out there and PK does not fit the mold of the complacent ones.

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03-29-2013, 08:58 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bobby Orr scored 120 in 1970. That's 43 years ago. You cannot compare eras, it's dumb.

Bobby Orr would not score 120pts if he was 22 playing today in a full NHL season. Would not happen. Watch a game from the 70s, then watch one today, it's two different leagues. Players today are in much better conditioning, much faster, stronger, equipment is completely different, opposition is a lot stronger.

Who would be better Orr vs PK had they played at the same time? Who freaking knows. Everything is different. Orr scored 135pts in his last season with the Bruins, when's the last time we saw a player score 135pts in the NHL? Does this mean Orr would be the best player today? No it doesn't.

You can't compare eras. Everything was different.
Just as an aside, I don't see why Orr couldn't score 120. The next closest scorer had 99 points... that's comparable to today. If anything Orr might've actually done better.

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03-29-2013, 09:12 PM
  #496
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I'm not sure I understand you.

You answer someone's post that was saying PK would perform just as well regardless of how much he'd be making by pointing out that it was all about money seeing how he held out (despite not even believing back in the negotiation threads that management were offering such a small deal).
When I say that his hold out was actually warranted considering how little he got, you answer by saying ''all is well, everyone is happy except a few fans''.

How does this mean that
a) the contract was good.
b) PK would not perform as well with more cash (initial point)
No. Dont try to read more into what I posted than what I just typed earlier.

Subban is happy. Bergevin is happy. He is playing very well and will be compensated accordingly when his contract comes up or if it gets upped in the off season.

That's it. Nothing more than that.

There is no need to complain since it does no good when the affected parties are satisfied and performing. If Subban were getting 10 minutes of TOI, then yeah, I would be complaining right along with you.

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03-29-2013, 09:18 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
To think we likely could have signed him long term for 5 million per...
it will prove to be a pretty big blunder by MB... and when we do extend him for a massive pay day in 2 years (or, god forbid, end up losing him either by offer sheet or trade), some will try to argue "hindsight blah blah blah".

MB should have seen what some of us saw right around the corner. And people need to udnerstand that what we're getting this year, still isn't as good as this kid is going to be... he's still getting better and will continue to get better probably for 3-4 more years.

as soon as the window opens for the team to extend him, i hope MB opens the bank vault and signs him to the best long term deal he can get him to agree to (and if I were Subban, I'd be gunning for every last penny I left on the table in January)... cuz the longer he waits, the more expensive its going to be.

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03-29-2013, 09:20 PM
  #498
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Can Subban win the Norris this year?

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03-29-2013, 09:21 PM
  #499
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it will prove to be a pretty big blunder by MB... and when we do extend him for a massive pay day in 2 years (or, god forbid, end up losing him either by offer sheet or trade), some will try to argue "hindsight blah blah blah".

MB should have seen what some of us saw right around the corner. And people need to udnerstand that what we're getting this year, still isn't as good as this kid is going to be... he's still getting better and will continue to get better probably for 3-4 more years.

as soon as the window opens for the team to extend him, i hope MB opens the bank vault and signs him to the best long term deal he can get him to agree to (and if I were Subban, I'd be gunning for every last penny I left on the table in January)... cuz the longer he waits, the more expensive its going to be.
I agree 100%

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03-29-2013, 09:39 PM
  #500
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No. Dont try to read more into what I posted than what I just typed earlier.

Subban is happy. Bergevin is happy. He is playing very well and will be compensated accordingly when his contract comes up or if it gets upped in the off season.

That's it. Nothing more than that.

There is no need to complain since it does no good when the affected parties are satisfied and performing. If Subban were getting 10 minutes of TOI, then yeah, I would be complaining right along with you.
Again, I really don't know what you're answering to..

The contract is bad. It should have been a long term deal for cheap instead of a bridge deal. Simple, and clear. Not sure why you have such a hard time admitting this was a mistake.

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