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Habs on Tradecentre Part 4 (Who do you want at the deadline/in free agency?) ‎

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03-29-2013, 12:02 PM
  #276
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by The Doors View Post
Gallagher will eventually replace Gionta, but in the meantime Plekanec-Gionta is a great skating veteran duo especially in the playoffs against another team's top line. He'll work his ass off and score 20-25 which is fine. The only problem is Gallagher emerging so early means they have a lot of the same size player, eventually that change but Gionta has been a very respectable member of the Habs, MB show respect to him for that, at least I hope so, this is Montreal not some joke organization.
But a projected 20-25 at 5m with no physicality or puck skills and deteriorating footspeed is not good enough. It's similar to why we dumped Cole, who despite his point totals, was screening goalies and drawing calls and playing physical like advertised, because his play was not good enough.

And it's amateaurish to think that the Habs should have more class than to trade a player. Iginla just got traded at midnight, Koivu wasn't even tendered an offer, you think a player with minimal ties to Montreal has to be given the velvet treatment because Jacques Martin called him a captain? Why?

I'm not saying we should buy him out, we shouldn't even buy out Kaberle for it's a waste of resources, but we should definitely look to getting "bigger" as an organization and moving on from one of the smallest wingers in the league is a a good step I think.

No one can come into this discussion and say that Gionta's looked good this year. He hasn't, and his play on the PP has been atrocious. There are many factors involved but Gio is to blame for at least part of it. Him and Kaberle add up to 15% of the cap! Nearly all of it is dead-weight given the opportunity cost of playing Gionta, having to make sure our lines work (for we have a boatload of midgets! hurrah!), not signing FAs, not giving the youngsters his playing time and letting them grow faster, etc. He's just a detriment in a lot of ways and after this season I would really think that his time as a Hab is up.

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03-29-2013, 12:04 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
But a projected 20-25 at 5m with no physicality or puck skills and deteriorating footspeed is not good enough. It's similar to why we dumped Cole, who despite his point totals, was screening goalies and drawing calls and playing physical like advertised, because his play was not good enough.

And it's amateaurish to think that the Habs should have more class than to trade a player. Iginla just got traded at midnight, Koivu wasn't even tendered an offer, you think a player with minimal ties to Montreal has to be given the velvet treatment because Jacques Martin called him a captain? Why?

I'm not saying we should buy him out, we shouldn't even buy out Kaberle for it's a waste of resources, but we should definitely look to getting "bigger" as an organization and moving on from one of the smallest wingers in the league is a a good step I think.

No one can come into this discussion and say that Gionta's looked good this year. He hasn't, and his play on the PP has been atrocious. There are many factors involved but Gio is to blame for at least part of it. Him and Kaberle add up to 15% of the cap! Nearly all of it is dead-weight given the opportunity cost of playing Gionta, having to make sure our lines work (for we have a boatload of midgets! hurrah!), not signing FAs, not giving the youngsters his playing time and letting them grow faster, etc. He's just a detriment in a lot of ways and after this season I would really think that his time as a Hab is up.
Why do you speak of cap hits when clearly it won't be a problem for this season or next? Both Gio's and Kaberle's contracts will be up by then. Their overpayment is not hampering this team in any way.

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03-29-2013, 12:17 PM
  #278
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Why do you speak of cap hits when clearly it won't be a problem for this season or next? Both Gio's and Kaberle's contracts will be up by then. Their overpayment is not hampering this team in any way.
The cap is going down this summer and a bunch of teams will have to maneuver. It'll open a lot of potential FAs and trades up and we're in a really good position to pick up some significant assets on the cheap - the team is very well positioned at this crossroads.

Forget the caphits though, it's the time on ice and the fact that he's playing with Pleks, our best centre. He's a black hole of production on the PP as well.

I dunno, I just get enraged knowing that we'll lose regular 25-30g Ryder because we have to keep Gionta because "lol classy organization"

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03-29-2013, 12:26 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post

And it's amateaurish to think that the Habs should have more class than to trade a player. Iginla just got traded at midnight, Koivu wasn't even tendered an offer, you think a player with minimal ties to Montreal has to be given the velvet treatment because Jacques Martin called him a captain? Why?
A little correction here. I don't think JM named him captain. If i remember correctly the players voted and he won the elections.

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03-29-2013, 12:29 PM
  #280
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Gionta is done. Captaincy means nothing to me.

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03-29-2013, 12:31 PM
  #281
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JBow has never played a single game in the PO. For a player playing around 30 minutes a game, can say that it's a good quality. That about 600+ games with no PO.
If I'm not mistaking, the only PO experience he has was in the AHL, not even in the JR
For that reason, it make me think he's no winner.....maybe I'm wrong but since Florida made the PO after he left and Calgary hasn't since his arrival make me believe.
Is it just bad luck? Did he win a medal in the WJC?
Don't want the player.
Hockey's a team game, so I don't look at one player (even the best player) as being the fault they don't succeed. J-Bo made the WJC team as a 16 year old and won two bronze and a silver in three years there. He also won two gold's at the World Hockey Championships and one silver. Plus a gold at the 2004 World Cup. He does have the big game experience for international play.

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03-29-2013, 12:31 PM
  #282
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A little correction here. I don't think JM named him captain. If i remember correctly the players voted and he won the elections.
That's not what I remember reading. Management named him captain as with all previous captains.

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03-29-2013, 12:34 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
That's not what I remember reading. Management named him captain as with all previous captains.
I guess i'll have to refresh my memory on this.

Not sure where this vote thing came from but it's in my sub conscious

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03-29-2013, 12:37 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Gionta is done. Captaincy means nothing to me.
Gionta is decent and obviously a guy with good character. I don't think that makes him a $5M per year player, and he's not a great fit when your team is already a little small up front. But he's not "done". 30 teams in the league would play him regular.

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03-29-2013, 12:51 PM
  #285
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Gionta is decent and obviously a guy with good character. I don't think that makes him a $5M per year player, and he's not a great fit when your team is already a little small up front. But he's not "done". 30 teams in the league would play him regular.
Agreed, and I hope people who read my rants against him don't think I don't consider him an NHL-player. He totally is and he's defensively sound. He just doesn't fit into our squad and cap-system and direction going forward, I don't think.

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03-29-2013, 12:56 PM
  #286
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Vote was for Saku. Gio was named captain by Martin after one full season of just assistants

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03-29-2013, 12:57 PM
  #287
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just got word from a very unreliable source

f Holmgren agrees to deal with Habs look for Bergevin to push extremely hard for at least 1 of Talbot, Hartnell, or Simmonds
I choose... YOU!

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03-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
That's not what I remember reading. Management named him captain as with all previous captains.
Koivu was voted in by the players, it was close between him and Corson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/greatest-moment/Koivu-Begins-His-Reign
On September 30, 1999, with the position left vacant after Vincent Damphousse’s departure in March, Canadiens players were called upon to vote for the team’s next captain.

In line with the sudden trend of European players exploding onto the NHL scene, Saku Koivu edged out Shayne Corson and Turner Stevenson to become the 27th captain in franchise history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Knee View Post
I guess i'll have to refresh my memory on this.

Not sure where this vote thing came from but it's in my sub conscious
The players were asked, but did not vote like for Koivu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2010/09/16/sp-gionta-captain.html
Coach Jacques Martin insisted that the decision has yet to be made, but he said a captain will be named before the start of the regular season. Team management will make the choice, but only after consulting the players.

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03-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
That's not what I remember reading. Management named him captain as with all previous captains.
Gionta was named captain by Martin, while all previous C's were voted in by the players. Gionta was the first time a C was appointed by the coach.

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03-29-2013, 01:01 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Flying Knee View Post
A little correction here. I don't think JM named him captain. If i remember correctly the players voted and he won the elections.
No, Martin named him. It was later that someone, forgot who, said that the players would have voted for Gionta anyways.

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03-29-2013, 01:03 PM
  #291
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No, Martin named him. It was later that someone, forgot who, said that the players would have voted for Gionta anyways.
Darche, last week on l'Anti-Chambre said the players would have all voted for Gionta anyway.

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03-29-2013, 01:03 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
Gionta was named captain by Martin, while all previous C's were voted in by the players. Gionta was the first time a C was appointed by the coach.
A quick check on the Canadiens timeline, both the Rocket and Beliveau were voted by the players, which I assume is a common trend.

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03-29-2013, 01:16 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
A quick check on the Canadiens timeline, both the Rocket and Beliveau were voted by the players, which I assume is a common trend.
I think the debate on Gionta's captaincy is misplaced. Obviously he's a good character guy and fair game as captain, no matter our lack of real insight into the room. The only question on him IMHO is his production and size vs. the rest of our roster, esp. in the top-6.

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03-29-2013, 01:24 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
But a projected 20-25 at 5m with no physicality or puck skills and deteriorating footspeed is not good enough. It's similar to why we dumped Cole, who despite his point totals, was screening goalies and drawing calls and playing physical like advertised, because his play was not good enough.

And it's amateaurish to think that the Habs should have more class than to trade a player. Iginla just got traded at midnight, Koivu wasn't even tendered an offer, you think a player with minimal ties to Montreal has to be given the velvet treatment because Jacques Martin called him a captain? Why?

I'm not saying we should buy him out, we shouldn't even buy out Kaberle for it's a waste of resources, but we should definitely look to getting "bigger" as an organization and moving on from one of the smallest wingers in the league is a a good step I think.

No one can come into this discussion and say that Gionta's looked good this year. He hasn't, and his play on the PP has been atrocious. There are many factors involved but Gio is to blame for at least part of it. Him and Kaberle add up to 15% of the cap! Nearly all of it is dead-weight given the opportunity cost of playing Gionta, having to make sure our lines work (for we have a boatload of midgets! hurrah!), not signing FAs, not giving the youngsters his playing time and letting them grow faster, etc. He's just a detriment in a lot of ways and after this season I would really think that his time as a Hab is up.
Don't disagree with you, just saying Gionta will probably play his deal out and that his replacement Gallagher being further ahead of development makes the size thing more of an issue. He's overpaid by 1M due to UFA which most people pegged when he was signed. And yeah, he blows on the PP. It is what it is but you can see the team has some intersting young guys to come in when he goes or the cash to get exactly the type of player you want/they need.

If the team wasn't playing so well this year, he'd be a prime candidate for trade, but you have to give him some credit for success as he's the captain of the team, he's doing some things well and the areas that he struggles in are probably places he shouldn't be in the first place (PP).

Ideally he's the third line RW on a big, deep team who puts 20-25 and plays steady both ways. Don't really see any point in complaining about him though, that's all. We all know that he's not the ideal candidate for the makeup of the team, but it doesn't change over night.

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03-29-2013, 01:32 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I think the debate on Gionta's captaincy is misplaced. Obviously he's a good character guy and fair game as captain, no matter our lack of real insight into the room. The only question on him IMHO is his production and size vs. the rest of our roster, esp. in the top-6.
I like Gionta, I am glad he has picked up his game recently (he had 4 goals and 5 assist through January and February but has 6 goals and 4 assist in March). The 5 million price tag is quite heavy for his offensive production. However like you said, we don't know what the intangibles are in the dressing room. Having 3 players under 5'10" in our top 3 does leave us vulnerable, and it's clear that he will be the odd man out as the two others are much younger than him.

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03-29-2013, 01:37 PM
  #296
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Perhaps something around Gionta for Paajarvi would work? He's big, becoming gritty, very fast. Has the potential to be a fringe 2nd liner with a good two way game. No idea why Edmonton would do it, somebody add some picks or prospects.

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03-29-2013, 01:49 PM
  #297
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Perhaps something around Gionta for Paajarvi would work? He's big, becoming gritty, very fast. Has the potential to be a fringe 2nd liner with a good two way game. No idea why Edmonton would do it, somebody add some picks or prospects.
Edmonton could use the veteran leadership and they have too many young middling prospects, but Gionta would never accept the trade given his generously offered NTC.

NTC and a 5x5 contract. Unbelievable, Gainey must've had a mild stroke the days leading to July 1.

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03-29-2013, 02:00 PM
  #298
Marc the Habs Fan
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Perhaps something around Gionta for Paajarvi would work? He's big, becoming gritty, very fast. Has the potential to be a fringe 2nd liner with a good two way game. No idea why Edmonton would do it, somebody add some picks or prospects.
Gionta is not waiving his NTC to go freaking Edmonton. You guys really need to stop with this trade Gionta stuff, it ain't happening.

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03-29-2013, 02:10 PM
  #299
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different thought on dmen rotating to hamilton

going through the different threads on tinordi, pateryn, and now beaulieu;it has me thinking maybe another thought.

the consensus is MB is looking at all our dmen in hamilton to see how they do before he makes a trade. how about MB is showcasing 1 of our young guys for a nice trade? maybe there is a young proven dman out there he has eye on and is putting a little showcase on before he approaches the opportunity to make deal.

i do think this is a possibility maybe not a probability. what are your thoughts?? trying out or maybe showcasing?

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03-29-2013, 02:11 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Gionta is not waiving his NTC to go freaking Edmonton. You guys really need to stop with this trade Gionta stuff, it ain't happening.
Alright, I give in. Gionta will probably stay around. Would still really love to get Paajarvi though. I think he fits in perfectly in terms of team build. If he can improve as Eller did this year, I think he could be one of the larger sized but still skilled forwards the Habs are looking for.

The Oilers seem to always be trying to improve their defence and it just so happens that the Habs have a plethora of good defensive prospects. Young team as well, maybe they need some gritty leadership? I say a deal is possible.

Mtl: Morgan Ellis + Travis Moen

Edm: Magnus Paajarvi

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