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All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

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Old
03-29-2013, 09:02 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Yabadabadooooooooo time
JAM
BAM
Thank you MAM
Stoneage Hockey WOOOOOOO

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03-29-2013, 10:47 AM
  #502
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I have absolutely no idea what Torts is still doing here.

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03-29-2013, 10:55 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
John Tortorella Discusses NYR Offense/Defense on Michael Kay

http://snyrangersblog.com/coachesgm/...ce=twitterfeed

On the star players, ďYou just look at Brad on the fifth goal and he allowed the play to come to him. He waits for the offense to come to him. I think that is such a telling tale for Brad and to let the offense come to him. It opens up the game. Step has been one of our best players all year long. Chris Kreider played very well. Miller played really well. We need to stay with what we are doing well and hope that our guys feel better about the game. Coaches canít teach creativity.Ē

On living with defensive mistakes, ďItís an easy thing for people to say, people say many times about me that I donít let my offensive players play and all it is is defense, defense defense. Itís so untrue. You just will not win in this league unless you play strong defense. When you talk about defense, people just think itís about being in your end zone. Defense starts when you donít have the puck, so that is something we have been working on. We are trying to establish our forecheck more so we donít spend time in our endzone. We have a huge injury with Marc Staal and I have a huge amount of respect for how the guys have reacted, not just the defensemen but our forwards. You have to play stronger team defense when you lose a cog like that. Itís easy to pick apart a team and say that your offensive guys arenít going so you arenít letting them play. I donít buy it. You win championships, you get into and compete in the playoffs if you understand how to play away from the puck cause if you do, you have the puck more and your offensive people have it more.
This is all terrific, and I agree wholeheartedly with all of it, especially his stance on play away from the puck. It just ends up not meaning anything when your offensive people have the puck more and still fail to do anything with it.

I still think it's absurd to fire a guy who just took a team to the conference finals, and I don't even think he's doing a particularly good job. At this rate, though, I'm starting to think that he won't last the season if they keep playing such subpar hockey.

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03-29-2013, 11:03 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Torts has worn out his welcome. Time for him to go.
He'd have more fans on his side if he wasn't such a ***** to people in general (inc. Sam Rosen) and unnecessarily holding back injury updates on players. Now that he's been shown to suck as a coach, there isn't anybody that's going to have his back


Last edited by BrianBoyle: 03-29-2013 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Don't circumvent the filter
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03-29-2013, 11:35 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
This is all terrific, and I agree wholeheartedly with all of it, especially his stance on play away from the puck. It just ends up not meaning anything when your offensive people have the puck more and still fail to do anything with it.

I still think it's absurd to fire a guy who just took a team to the conference finals, and I don't even think he's doing a particularly good job. At this rate, though, I'm starting to think that he won't last the season if they keep playing such subpar hockey.
If we hover around the 8th spot, he won't get fired during a shortened season. I think it would take a monumental collapse to get him fired, this year. I could be wrong. The fact that we're last in the league in goals when we were supposed to contend for a Cup is completely unacceptable. Sather screwed things up, and now Torts isn't the guy for the job with this personnel.

We don't even block that many shots, anymore. Basically, we no longer have an identity.


Last edited by KreiMeARiver: 03-29-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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03-29-2013, 11:47 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
We don't even block that many shots, anymore. Basically, we no longer have an identity.
I keep coming back to this; the Rangers don't seem to be good at any one aspect of the game anymore and they are no longer a tough team to play against.

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03-29-2013, 12:16 PM
  #507
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Identity is this: mediocrity. Mediocre defensively, mediocre special teams, inept offense, great goaltending. Not particularly physical or hardworking, middle of the pack blocking shots, forecheck that comes and goes. It all adds up to mediocrity.

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03-29-2013, 12:17 PM
  #508
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I didn't watch his post game conf, was he asked why Kreider was benched in the 3rd?

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03-29-2013, 12:20 PM
  #509
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So sick of watching Torts hockey...he needs to go. Bring in someone who supports his players (not rides them) and knows X's and O's

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03-29-2013, 12:36 PM
  #510
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Big surprise, we lost and suddenly this thread explodes.

At this point, I really really hope if Torts gets canned, that Sather continues to do nothing to address the problems with this team or learn from his mistakes. Then this thread can be bumped and all the fair weather fans who come out to moan when the team struggles and the guys who don't have a clue what they're talking about can read their hyperbolic bs, realize it, and sit down and just stuff it.

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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Everyone who comes here forgets hOw to score sans Gabs. It would not surprise me at all if the best player in the world did as well lol
Really? News to me. Please, enlighten us - who exactly hasn't been able to score under this system that did previously elsewhere? What player came here from another team, played under Torts system, and has not met expectations? Or alternatively, who has left us under Torts system and gone on to explode offensively?

- Nash is having the best season ppg-wise of his career.
- Gabby, 2 40-goal seasons.
- Richie, while he wasn't great last year, did fine and about on par for his career despite a slow start.
- Fedotenko carried over a similar ppg from Pitt to us. And is doing worse this year with a run and gun system in the Flyers, and the coach that people here are for some mind boggling reason enamored with - Laviolette.
- Dubinsky is just as mediocre this year with CBJ as he was with us last year.
- Anisimov is the same story.
- Prust actually improved his offense when he came to NYR and played in Torts' system. And has carried over a similar ppg to MTL.
- Prospal, during the short time he had to play under Torts' system had quite possibly his best ppg rate of his career.

The only players that come close to fitting this storyline are Asham, Pyatt, Powe, Halpern. But none of them are exactly offensive powerhouses or at the pinnacle of their careers. And their ppg may well just be thrown off by a small sample size this year.

- Then you have John Malkin Mitchell. He has double the ppg this year as he did with the Rangers. But guess what? He's also getting almost double the ice time he did with us. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! More ice time means more production!?! And if you discount his hot start, even with more ice time he's about back on his ppg pace with the Rangers last year. The last 20 games he has 4 goals and 3 assists.

This has just become the accepted wisdom around here and is a complete load of crap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Look, it's obvious that the players on the team aren't able to exercise their full creativity. I have no problem with playing dump and chase, counter attack style against some teams, but when we're obviously more talented than the opposition, let the talent and creativity flow. It's why we've struggled against Buffalo and Florida. I like Torts, but his refusal to adjust has me frustrated.
Then stop *****ing about the dump and chase. If they could carry it into the zone or make amazing passing plays, they would. Torts is not telling them not to be creative or not to let the offense flow. At BEST, what he is saying is that if you don't have a play, don't force it and dump it in. That is simply SMART hockey. Want a prime example of why, with the personnel we have, getting the puck down low and being able to set up in the offensive zone is important and better than playing a "run and gun" system or "opening up" the offense? JT Miller's turnover last night -- he tried to pull a dumb move, failed, got caught along with the rest of his line down low because they hadn't set up, gave up an odd man rush, and lo-and-behold Ottawa gets a goal. This particular example happened deeper in the zone and wasn't a zone entry play, but the result was precisely what happens if during zone entry you don't have a play, don't get the puck deep, and instead try to force it.

As for the bold... where do you guys get this from? I'm not saying the team is bad, but I'm not seeing this amazing offensive creativity that everyone somehow thinks exists. We have 3, maybe 4 guys on this team that you could actually make that argument about consistently. 2 of them are playing like crap this year. The rest of them are fine, but don't finish and aren't consistent. Last night alone -- Stepan whiffs on a one-timer for an open net. Hags does the same thing. McDonagh has a rather large portion of the net open and shoots it into Bishop. Gabby continues to fail on two prime chances.

But yea, you're right. Definitely more skilled. And totally not getting enough chances because of the system (the five examples alone that I listed above included at least 3 that need to be goals).


Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Away on vacation actually, didn't bring the laptop, nice try
So you're saying you have no examples, but just like to spew bs? Cool. You can't actually back up what you say? Here, I'll help you out with two examples -- nay, three. There have been three 3 on 2's this year in which Stepan was given the puck and instead of making a good pass or taking a shot, he took it behind the net (he scored on one of them by banking it off the goalie in the Washington game -- but I count that as him getting lucky, because there is no way he could have expected that to happen and if it doesn't these whole boards explode at him for doing it). Now, please, explain to me how it is John Tortorella's fault that Stepan had brain farts on those plays and just completely ****ing flubbed them. You think Torts was sitting there on the bench saying "YEA, good job Steps, got that puck down low!"? There is no way in hell that is on Torts. Step just decided to ****ing forget how to play hockey in those moments -- and its unfortunately not an uncommon occurrence with a lot of the guys on this team.

---

I'm a Torts defender. I've always said that he does plenty of things that drive me up the walls and that I wish were done differently; but even with those things, I think he brings more good than bad. And the problem (offensively) isn't the system. It is a GM that has no clue what he is doing. It is a team that is constructed poorly. It is players failing to play a full 60 minutes. It is a failure to work as hard as last year as a team. And it is your two star players pulling disappearing acts this year.

Edit: I'll take the Sather stuff to the Sather thread -- sorry.


Last edited by Richter Scale: 03-29-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old
03-29-2013, 12:50 PM
  #511
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This is all terrific, and I agree wholeheartedly with all of it, especially his stance on play away from the puck. It just ends up not meaning anything when your offensive people have the puck more and still fail to do anything with it.

I still think it's absurd to fire a guy who just took a team to the conference finals, and I don't even think he's doing a particularly good job. At this rate, though, I'm starting to think that he won't last the season if they keep playing such subpar hockey.
There's obviously a correlation between this team's inability to find ways to score and how they are being coached. I cannot blame either side completely and while I agree they should give a guy who got them to the ECF a little bit longer leash, there is no reason why a team with this much raw offensive talent cannot be at a GF average of 3 or close to it for the year thus far. You can't fire the team so, yeah if they lose the next 3-4 which is actually likely, they could fire Torts.

When Nash, Hagelin and Stepan are all down behind the goal line trying to dig the puck out only to wrap it around on net 3 times on what was their "best" shift of the night, is that a player issue, or coaching issue? It boggles my mind that three players who all seem to have above average hockey IQ and offensive prowess would not position themselves to make the best of extended offensive pressure like that. Who knows though. Maybe it was them just not being aware of their positions on the ice. Maybe they weren't communicating.

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03-29-2013, 02:29 PM
  #512
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I can handle losing I just hate boring hockey and that is the way this team plays right now.

BORING

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03-29-2013, 02:32 PM
  #513
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I can handle losing I just hate boring hockey and that is the way this team plays right now.

BORING
What u don't like JAM??

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03-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #514
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Then stop *****ing about the dump and chase. If they could carry it into the zone or make amazing passing plays, they would. Torts is not telling them not to be creative or not to let the offense flow. At BEST, what he is saying is that if you don't have a play, don't force it and dump it in. That is simply SMART hockey. Want a prime example of why, with the personnel we have, getting the puck down low and being able to set up in the offensive zone is important and better than playing a "run and gun" system or "opening up" the offense? JT Miller's turnover last night -- he tried to pull a dumb move, failed, got caught along with the rest of his line down low because they hadn't set up, gave up an odd man rush, and lo-and-behold Ottawa gets a goal. This particular example happened deeper in the zone and wasn't a zone entry play, but the result was precisely what happens if during zone entry you don't have a play, don't get the puck deep, and instead try to force it.
I think you have encapsulated why the players do not play a puck possession game.

Miller tries to, he may make a bad play here and there, what does Torts do? Drops him to the wing.

So in the player's mind, what does that make them think about when they are trying to break into the zone with puck possession? I'd assume they think something along the lines of " Hey, if I screw this up, I am either getting benched or dropped down the depth chart, so I better just dump this puck in"

So while Torts is not literally telling them not to carry the puck in, he is through other means, telling them not to carry the puck in.

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03-29-2013, 03:20 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
What u don't like JAM??
Watching the NY TortureRangers is like eating a Jam sandwich made with two pieces of sandpaper

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03-29-2013, 03:45 PM
  #516
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Andrew Gross @AGrossRecordToward the end of practice, Gaborik and coach John Tortorella had a 12-minute coach-player discussion along the sideboards near the bench.Andrew Gross @AGrossRecordTorts did most of the talking. It never appeared to get heated but there were times when Gaborik didn't seem to be looking at Torts

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03-29-2013, 03:55 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Andrew Gross @AGrossRecordToward the end of practice, Gaborik and coach John Tortorella had a 12-minute coach-player discussion along the sideboards near the bench.Andrew Gross @AGrossRecordTorts did most of the talking. It never appeared to get heated but there were times when Gaborik didn't seem to be looking at Torts
This is supposed to prove something...? Or are you just putting it here because its about Torts?

Obviously we don't know what was said, but I'm glad hes spending the extra time to specifically talk to Gabby one on one. The guy needs to get something going. Would you rather he ignore the fact that his star player isn't producing and not do this with him?

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03-29-2013, 03:57 PM
  #518
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Look, I'm not a fan of letting the inmates run the asylum, but it couldn't be any more clear that Lundqvist and Gaborik are done with whatever Torts is selling. When you "lose" the two best Rangers of the last 3 seasons, it's probably time to agree that moving on is best for all parties involved.

In a perfect world, Kevin Dineen is let go in Florida, and we get an offensive minded coach. That's what the current roster (and, for that matter, next year's projected roster) is built around: offense.

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03-29-2013, 03:58 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
This is supposed to prove something...? Or are you just putting it here because its about Torts?

Obviously we don't know what was said, but I'm glad hes spending the extra time to specifically talk to Gabby one on one. The guy needs to get something going.
It seems (no proof) but SEEMS based on comments etc both Torts two stars for the last how many years are fed up with him

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03-29-2013, 04:00 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
Look, I'm not a fan of letting the inmates run the asylum, but it couldn't be any more clear that Lundqvist and Gaborik are done with whatever Torts is selling. When you "lose" the two best Rangers of the last 3 seasons, it's probably time to agree that moving on is best for all parties involved.

In a perfect world, Kevin Dineen is let go in Florida, and we get an offensive minded coach. That's what the current roster (and, for that matter, next year's projected roster) is built around: offense.
This, both are done w whatever he's selling

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03-29-2013, 04:04 PM
  #521
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I think you have encapsulated why the players do not play a puck possession game.

Miller tries to, he may make a bad play here and there, what does Torts do? Drops him to the wing.

So in the player's mind, what does that make them think about when they are trying to break into the zone with puck possession? I'd assume they think something along the lines of " Hey, if I screw this up, I am either getting benched or dropped down the depth chart, so I better just dump this puck in"

So while Torts is not literally telling them not to carry the puck in, he is through other means, telling them not to carry the puck in.
A few players that could actually carry the puck into the offensive zone got deep-sixed for not being Tards-kinda-player. As far I can tell, he's had input into who is and isn't on the team. It's on him.

Granted I don't ever wish for someone to lose their jobs, but I wouldn't lose sleep if we made a change.

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03-29-2013, 04:06 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
It seems (no proof) but SEEMS based on comments etc both Torts two stars for the last how many years are fed up with him
And you're getting that from this tweet, how exactly? The fact that Gross (3rd party) is claiming Gabby didn't look at Torts at times during the conversation? Go have a conversation with someone for 12 minutes in which the majority of the talking is done by one of the two people (and have the person listening be ashamed of something -- hay, maybe like Gabby for failing to produce!?!?!) -- and tell me whether the one listening looks away at any point. Jesus. Gimme a break with this crap.

And where are people getting that Hank is down on Torts or the system? He's been down on the inability of the forwards to produce goals and the defense to clear the crease. Both rightfully so. But neither of those has anything to do with the system. 1st goal last night, Neil sits in front of Hank for an insane amount of time untouched and ends up completely screening him. McDonagh failed to clear him from the crease and in the process helped screen Hank more. If he does that consistently (he doesn't - but if he did), he has no business playing in the NHL. As a defenseman, you simply can't let that happen.

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03-29-2013, 04:11 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
A few players that could actually carry the puck into the offensive zone got deep-sixed for not being Tards-kinda-player. As far I can tell, he's had input into who is and isn't on the team. It's on him.
Names?

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03-29-2013, 04:13 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
And you're getting that from this tweet, how exactly? The fact that Gross (3rd party) is claiming Gabby didn't look at Torts at times during the conversation? Go have a conversation with someone for 12 minutes in which the majority of the talking is done by one of the two people (and have the person listening be ashamed of something -- hay, maybe like Gabby for failing to produce!?!?!) -- and tell me whether the one listening looks away at any point. Jesus. Gimme a break with this crap.

And where are people getting that Hank is down on Torts or the system? He's been down on the inability of the forwards to produce goals and the defense to clear the crease. Both rightfully so. But neither of those has anything to do with the system. 1st goal last night, Neil sits in front of Hank for an insane amount of time untouched and ends up completely screening him. McDonagh failed to clear him from the crease and in the process helped screen Hank more. If he does that consistently (he doesn't - but if he did), he has no business playing in the NHL. As a defenseman, you simply can't let that happen.
Guess were hearing diff interviews.. hank is fed up with the offensive talent not being able to produce like they should. Hank is fed up with the defensive first system pretty clearly

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03-29-2013, 04:18 PM
  #525
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Would it shock anyone here if Gaborik said he was tuning out Torts? He obviously wouldn't but come on. It's not that difficult to imagine. Tweet or no tweet. Gaborik looks like a shell of himself. He has no heart, no drive, and is playing tentative. What's causing that? Is he still hurt and not telling anyone? I don't think it is an injury. I just think he's had enough trying to play hockey that he is not suited for. I don't blame him.

Henrik however, I do not think he has given up on Torts yet. There is little to no indication of that.

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