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Old
08-12-2006, 06:14 PM
  #26
HankyZetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Last year was the first year where he did it consistently for the whole year. It was about time.

Maybe the Habs are known as a plucky team that can grind its way to victories despite size and talent shortages, but overall, they are not particularly hardworking, and have not been in the past. For instance, look at the main forward lines from last year. I would say that 5 of the top 6 were prone to taking nights off.
Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev
Dagenais-Ribeiro-Ryder
you make some valid points but rivet and souray were just bad examples
I think we really addresed that issue for this year tho
getting rid of bulis and zednik (our too laziest players) ribeiro showing some grit near the end. Also imo samsonov will light a fire under kovys *** becuz samsonov works hard kovy will not let his russian comrade outdo him

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08-12-2006, 06:17 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Last year was the first year where he did it consistently for the whole year. It was about time.

Maybe the Habs are known as a plucky team that can grind its way to victories despite size and talent shortages, but overall, they are not particularly hardworking, and have not been in the past. For instance, look at the main forward lines from last year. I would say that 5 of the top 6 were prone to taking nights off.
Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev
Dagenais-Ribeiro-Ryder
Dagenais? He played 32 games with the habs lol. Higgins is in the top 6.
Then you got Plekanec, Begin,Murray,Downey.

Dagenais?????????????

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Old
08-12-2006, 06:18 PM
  #28
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You're right, I think we're very much improving in that department.

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Old
08-12-2006, 06:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Dagenais? He played 32 games with the habs lol. Higgins is in the top 6.
Then you got Plekanec, Begin,Murray,Downey.

Dagenais?????????????
I am referring to beowulf's assertion that we were regarded as a fast hardworking team, which we certainly weren't last year. Do you get my general point, or are you going to keep nitpicking about minor things like Dagenais?

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08-12-2006, 06:31 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I am referring to beowulf's assertion that we were regarded as a fast hardworking team, which we certainly weren't last year. Do you get my general point, or are you going to keep nitpicking about minor things like Dagenais?
Maybe at the start of the season but I felt as the season went along, especially after Theo was traded that the team worked very hard and fought their way into the playoffs. It was not perfect but it continues to improve and with Carbo as coach, just like Gainey during the second half last season, will require hard work from his players. Gainey was not afraid of benching a vet like Bulis and I don't think Carbo will be either. It will be play hard or sit.

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Old
08-12-2006, 06:32 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I am referring to beowulf's assertion that we were regarded as a fast hardworking team, which we certainly weren't last year. Do you get my general point, or are you going to keep nitpicking about minor things like Dagenais?
Please. I would suggest you go in the NHL thread and ask. "how would you describe the habs last year? like speed, work ethic etc...."

And the Dagenais thing is not a minor thing heh......

I'd also like to remind you that durring the early part of the season the habs were knows as the cardiac kids.

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Old
08-12-2006, 07:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
You're right, I think we're very much improving in that department.
Yes. You were exagerating a bit but I still think your right in a way... You just throw bad exemples. I say 2/3 of our player just play when they want and that %*$*$!!? pisses me off...

Guys like Kovalev, Samsonov, Ryder, Bonk, Markov (as much as i love him) play when they want... I dont think Ribeiro take a lot of off-nights though he may be an ***hole sometime but he seems to play hard everynight.. (im gonna get flamed for this one im pretty sure)

Damn.. i love oreo, i should rename me oreomaster or sumthing like that

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Old
08-12-2006, 08:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Please. I would suggest you go in the NHL thread and ask. "how would you describe the habs last year? like speed, work ethic etc...."

And the Dagenais thing is not a minor thing heh......

I'd also like to remind you that durring the early part of the season the habs were knows as the cardiac kids.
And the people who say that Montréal is a hard working team would be wrong, because it isn't, and it hasn't been for many years.

"cardiac kids" ? I've never heard that, and the Habs were certainly not known by that word. That's just nonsense.

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08-12-2006, 08:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
And the people who say that Montréal is a hard working team would be wrong, because it isn't, and it hasn't been for many years.

"cardiac kids" ? I've never heard that, and the Habs were certainly not known by that word. That's just nonsense.
Yes. they was known by this word. But that not for the right thing... that becuz they always opponents comeback even if they we're leading 4-0..

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08-12-2006, 08:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by KaptainKourage View Post
Yes. they was known by this word. But that not for the right thing... that becuz they always opponents comeback even if they we're leading 4-0..
haha, perhaps, but i never heard it.

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Old
08-12-2006, 08:20 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
haha, perhaps, but i never heard it.
You never heard it, you talk about Dagenais in our top 6, you say this team isnt hard working.....
Makes you wonder.

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08-12-2006, 08:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
You never heard it, you talk about Dagenais in our top 6, you say this team isnt hard working.....
Makes you wonder.
Who ever called them that? People on the Habs' board? I don't know.

Look, my only point is that one weakness we don't talk about is the team's ability to completely disappear for long stretches. This is the kind of thing that's characteristic of perennial crappy teams like say the Panthers or the Thrashers, but that you don't see competitive teams do. I think that Gainey is absolutely taking this team in the right direction, and that with the emergence of workhorses like Higgins and Plekanec, this will be a thing of the past. However, the team hasn't shown yet that they've left it behind them. I'm confident that it will be starting this season.

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Old
08-12-2006, 08:33 PM
  #38
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I think KM makes a very good point; when we were in that horrible three month slump, most nights we just didn't show up. Our main guns last year were more than prone to taking nights off; Kovalev (good for about 2/3 of the games), Ryder (about the same though his injury might be a good excuse), Ribeiro (he had a good run at the end but half of the time he's just not there). So half of our top 6 is prone to dissapearing acts.

Souray while I like what he brings, did take nights off (the first third of the season). Rivet though had his best and most consistent year; something that eluded him for of his career.

The playoffs also showed how much Koivu is like a regulator to our team's efforts. I just worry that when he gets injured, we fall apart (playoffs and regular season when he was out with that groin injury).

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08-12-2006, 08:36 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Who ever called them that? People on the Habs' board? I don't know.
Look, my only point is that one weakness we don't talk about is the team's ability to completely disappear for long stretches. This is the kind of thing that's characteristic of perennial crappy teams like say the Panthers or the Thrashers, but that you don't see competitive teams do. I think that Gainey is absolutely taking this team in the right direction, and that with the emergence of workhorses like Higgins and Plekanec, this will be a thing of the past. However, the team hasn't shown yet that they've left it behind them. I'm confident that it will be starting this season.
It was the headline on TSN a few times early in the season. When the habs were #1-2 in the league after 15 games or so. Winning most games after comming back or taking the lead late in the game. There were threads about the most exciting teams in the league early in the season and the habs were named more often then not.
The team had it's leg cut of by
1-Theo's awfull play.
2-Koivu missed a few games
3-Kovalev got an operation.
4-The rookies (Higgins,Plekanec, Perezhogin) lost there energy for a while.
Then Gainey fired Julien and then traded Theo and thing got gradualy better.

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Old
08-12-2006, 08:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Who ever called them that? People on the Habs' board? I don't know.

Look, my only point is that one weakness we don't talk about is the team's ability to completely disappear for long stretches. This is the kind of thing that's characteristic of perennial crappy teams like say the Panthers or the Thrashers, but that you don't see competitive teams do. I think that Gainey is absolutely taking this team in the right direction, and that with the emergence of workhorses like Higgins and Plekanec, this will be a thing of the past. However, the team hasn't shown yet that they've left it behind them. I'm confident that it will be starting this season.
You know when you got 3 or 4 of your best players out with an injury its kind of hard to give your 100%. Some long loosing streak are bound to hapen like it or not. When you become a profesional in any sport confidence plays such a big part in your succes. If you dont have confidence and are going true a rough patch no matter how good you are, youre game is going to be affected.

Are darkes months last year were november,december

Souray- personal issues
Komisarek-mother past away
kovalev was out because he took surgery
koivu missed some time urond that time of the year
Theodore downhill slump started mid november.

You might think players are slacking off but it goes much deeper than that. If they did slack off, there not going to be in the bigs much longer. Sports is all about confidence. if you have it youre going to do well and if you dont your not going to do well.

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Old
08-12-2006, 09:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by KaptainKourage View Post
-Lack of spots... we have too much rookies
Seriously, geez... I hate it as well.

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Old
08-12-2006, 10:09 PM
  #42
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Strengths:

-Quickness and skill in our top 6. Good scoring potential with some decent top 6 prospects in the pipeline.
-Should be a solid goalie tandem.
-Grittier energy line.
-Lots of character on the team now.
-Methodical GM who is slowly improving our weaknesses.

Weaknesses:

-Lack of size in our top 6. We're not soft, but we need more size somehow.
-Lack of puck movers on defense. Lack of agility on defense.
-Lack of size at center (combined with lack of agility on defense).
-Lots of young players (may not end up being a weakness though).

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08-12-2006, 10:18 PM
  #43
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I agree at one point last season I didn t know which team was goin to be on the ice
I think the major concern with the team last year were Theo and Julien, I like the guy but i don t think a lot of players were buying his game plan
And of course Huet, if it wasn t for huet we would ve never made it ... He surprised everyone with his play and attitude, and gave hope to everybody. (+ the gainey effect)

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Old
08-12-2006, 10:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sthabs View Post
I agree at one point last season I didn t know which team was goin to be on the ice
I think the major concern with the team last year were Theo and Julien, I like the guy but i don t think a lot of players were buying his game plan
And of course Huet, if it wasn t for huet we would ve never made it ... He surprised everyone with his play and attitude, and gave hope to everybody. (+ the gainey effect)
Should probably put that in the strengths for Carbonneau. Pretty sure we're gonna have a strong system, suited to the players.

Julien's system was terrible. Too static and predictable. He had no clue when to improvise or stick with something that was working (i.e. forecheck!). And he didn't play the kids at all.

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Old
08-12-2006, 10:29 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post

Julien's system was terrible. Too static and predictable. He had no clue when to improvise or stick with something that was working (i.e. forecheck!). And he didn't play the kids at all.

Quoted for truth

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Old
08-13-2006, 09:07 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Last year was the first year where he did it consistently for the whole year. It was about time.

Maybe the Habs are known as a plucky team that can grind its way to victories despite size and talent shortages, but overall, they are not particularly hardworking, and have not been in the past. For instance, look at the main forward lines from last year. I would say that 5 of the top 6 were prone to taking nights off.
Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev
Dagenais-Ribeiro-Ryder
That's obvious that you have a point here, 5 of these 6 guys were prone to taking nights off... but look how things changed under Gainey's reign.

Zednick was replaced by Higgins during the season, than Dagenais disappeared, Ryder was put with two hard working guys (Koivu and Higgins).

Now, let's just hope this Ribeiro - Sammy- Kovalev line won't take too much nights out because we'll be in trouble. On the good side, we will still be able to rely on our third line with Plekanec and Perezhogin, they were our most hard working line during the playoff.

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Old
08-13-2006, 10:01 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Strengths:

-Quickness and skill in our top 6. Good scoring potential with some decent top 6 prospects in the pipeline.
-Should be a solid goalie tandem.
-Grittier energy line.
-Lots of character on the team now.
-Methodical GM who is slowly improving our weaknesses.

Weaknesses:

-Lack of size in our top 6. We're not soft, but we need more size somehow.
-Lack of puck movers on defense. Lack of agility on defense.
-Lack of size at center (combined with lack of agility on defense).
-Lots of young players (may not end up being a weakness though).
This is a good summary of our strengths and weaknesses but I would like to add that even though the D plays extremely strong as a whole the group can be completely different with one injury(especially to Markov). So I would say it is a relative weakness. I also want to mention the teams greatest strength which would have to be the amazing chemistry they displayed down the stetch and into the play-offs, it was amazing how well they played together and Souray even said they were the closest group he has ever played with. I think this will be the biggest key to the upcoming season and should determine how well we fair.

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Old
08-14-2006, 08:25 AM
  #48
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Now, let's just hope this Ribeiro - Sammy- Kovalev line won't take too much nights out because we'll be in trouble.
Ain't that the truth. If these guys aren't playing hard, it'll be a goalfest against them. One of the most exciting/scary lines in a long time. Gonna be fun to watch.

It'll be interesting to see how opposing teams play us. Who do they send the checking line out against? Could open up some room Koivu if these guys draw some attention, which they're bound to.

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Old
08-14-2006, 08:29 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by gerf View Post
This is a good summary of our strengths and weaknesses but I would like to add that even though the D plays extremely strong as a whole the group can be completely different with one injury(especially to Markov). So I would say it is a relative weakness. I also want to mention the teams greatest strength which would have to be the amazing chemistry they displayed down the stetch and into the play-offs, it was amazing how well they played together and Souray even said they were the closest group he has ever played with. I think this will be the biggest key to the upcoming season and should determine how well we fair.
Good point. Definately a case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

I'd be willing to bring in a pure offensive guy on D to give us a little bit of a kick back there. I think the group can make up for a guy with some defensive shortcomings.

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Old
08-14-2006, 01:07 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
Souray while I like what he brings, did take nights off (the first third of the season).
I've seen this mentioned in this thread a couple of times already. Is it possible that he had trouble ajusting to the new NHL considering he's a physical defencemen

Chris Pronger had lots of trouble ajusting to the new NHL aswell, and he was one win away from a Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe. I know he's a few steps ahead of Souray, but it's just an example that most physical defencemen needed time to ajust. Considering Souray improved after his bad first third, maybe it just means he's found his game. Not playing at the NHL level the year before didn't help either.

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