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David Desharnais - Black or White Edition

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:34 PM
  #301
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
I tried bumping this thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1336155&page=2

No replies again. Actually, no offers for him again.
No ****, saying "is there any top 2 line centers you'd give up" turns people off. People want to ADD to their team not swap 'top 6' centers.

Besides, one said he'd be a 50 assist player for the habs. I guess that means people don't like him?

Either way, value of DD is meh. Everyone knows that. I don't really mind how other teams percieve him. Do you expect someone to give us say Toews for Galchenyuk because that's how we percieve his value isn't it? No one would but he's worth that to us.

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03-29-2013, 12:35 PM
  #302
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The point that I am trying to make here is that there is a reason why small players don't get good trade value. Every other team in the league doesn't care for small skilled, players, but somehow we always manage to get the small guys who aren't physical.

Now lets put this into perspective. What do you think would happen if Bergevin put Gallagher on the trade market? We would get offers! Not just a draft pick, maybe even a second line roster player. Why, because he's physical and brings more to the table than Desharnais.
But how much would gally get? Would we get a player of similar impact? Nope. Try but I doubt you get anything that measures up to him.

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03-29-2013, 01:03 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
I tried bumping this thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1336155&page=2

No replies again. Actually, no offers for him again.
The thread was locked after you bumped it. Thats why there are no replies

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03-29-2013, 01:45 PM
  #304
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Against Boston, MT gave him 16:45. Clearly second behind Plekanec (23:16).

As for Gally, he was given 12 minutes a little bit ahead of Halpern.

This is the time given by his coach and the linemates gven by his coaches.

If seems that most on this board knows better how to manage the TOI than Gallant, Daigneault, Therrien, Dudley, Bergevin and all decide together.

Next year or the following one, maybe Gally will have more time.
I guess that part of a player's value (after ESL) is related to TOI and points (except for goons which DD is clearly nut)

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03-29-2013, 01:53 PM
  #305
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You honestly think Bergevin signed DD now to please the media? What a joke and load of ********.

If that was his goal, the habs would have had more than 2 Quebecois players coming into the season. Gabriel Dumont would be playing all the time if that was the case! Darche would be resigned! Clearly Bergy believes DD helps this club, and he thinks he will in the future. It's as simple as that!

Personally I don't like the length of the contract because I think Gally can take over in 2 years (probably not next year), and I find it hard to understand, but I guess Bergevin wants to keep the depth that makes this team successful.

Can't believe some people still stoop to the lowest common denominator when talking about french canadian players resigning. What an embarrassment.
cmon buddy if you think there was not an ounce of pressure to him sign as a local player your ***** dreaming in this hockey market of Montreal

this isnt some Marc Andre Bergeron or if we dont keep Gabriel Dumont crap player

its funny how a week after he signs Brisson as his agent he gets a 4 year deal

I have die hard hab fan friends in Montreal who listen religiously to the talk shows in both languages who say the DD was a hot topic all the time , and would they resign or not with heated debates

is it the only reason NO , but dont tell me it didnt factor in the equation

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03-29-2013, 02:05 PM
  #306
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cmon buddy if you think there was not an ounce of pressure to him sign as a local player your ***** dreaming in this hockey market of Montreal

this isnt some Marc Andre Bergeron or if we dont keep Gabriel Dumont crap player

its funny how a week after he signs Brisson as his agent he gets a 4 year deal

I have die hard hab fan friends in Montreal who listen religiously to the talk shows in both languages who say the DD was a hot topic all the time , and would they resign or not with heated debates

is it the only reason NO , but dont tell me it didnt factor in the equation
No doubt about it IMO, and while we don't see it too much, there is some pressure to get hometown players to come back for there teams, just not the level it is in Mtl. Toronto has had some pressure to have more guys from Ontario, and I remember even Burke had to respond once by showing that in the past few years, the Leafs have drafted the most guys from Ontario. The Wild put a little pressure to get some guys from that state as-well, and hence the big push to get Parise.

For me I have no problem with DD, and his size shouldn't be an issue, because going forward, I think the only undersized forwards on the team are going to be him and Gallagher, with Gionta on the way out (nothing wrong with his play).

Our size issue is on D, and that too should be fixed with Tinordi, and Beaulieu almost ready.

The only issue, well its more of a question, is how does DD and Eller fit long term, Gally will be a centre in a year or 2 max, and at that point you have to decide what are you going to do with the other 3 guys, because 1 has to be moved, both DD and Eller are better centre then they are wings, Plek has been so valuable. We still have time to make a decision, but its coming sooner than later IMO.

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03-29-2013, 02:07 PM
  #307
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Lets give a guy a 20m$ contract so talk show hosts and radio callers are happy!

If Bergevin didn't believe Desharnais to be a useful player he would have traded him instead of signing him to a long term deal. If he only wanted to keep him because of the local factor he would have given him a shorter deal.

FACE IT, he's been deemed useful to the team and thats why they kept him.

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03-29-2013, 02:20 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
The thread was locked after you bumped it. Thats why there are no replies
Yeah and it was bumped for a day before it was locked.

Does this new one suit your taste?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1388967

I see people saying he would be a good fit on certain teams. I don't see the offers from those teams.

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03-29-2013, 02:22 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Lets give a guy a 20m$ contract so talk show hosts and radio callers are happy!

If Bergevin didn't believe Desharnais to be a useful player he would have traded him instead of signing him to a long term deal. If he only wanted to keep him because of the local factor he would have given him a shorter deal.

FACE IT, he's been deemed useful to the team and thats why they kept him.
Any French UFAs we can spend our buyout savings on? It's a shame only 8 years max. Was hoping for a 20 year deal for Jean Jacques Le Petit. We don't want to upset shows like Antichambre now do we?

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03-29-2013, 02:25 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
Yeah and it was bumped for a day before it was locked.

Does this new one suit your taste?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1388967

I see people saying he would be a good fit on certain teams. I don't see the offers from those teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
This year is Desharnais's 2nd full season. He may have been a later starter but the some idea of a sophomore slump applies (unknown in the 1st year, the league adjusts to the player/player overconfident in the 2nd year).

I don't see a reason why he wouldn't get a return of more than a 2nd. It's not like there's an excessive amount of legitimate scoring centers in the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
I would definitely take him on the JETS if all it cost was a 2nd, I might even add a prospect like Klingberg or something. Kane could use a good playmaking centre on his line.
2 examples.

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03-29-2013, 02:52 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
2 examples.
I'm so impressed. The best we could get was a second and a bad prospect.
Desharnais is played on the Canadiens like a first or second line center. With the exception of terrible teams centers, which first/second line center in the league do you know that doesn't get you at least get you a third line roster player or a fifth dman?

Gallagher would get us Jagr instantly at this point. Dallas would laugh at us if we tried to offer Desharnais straight up for Jagr.


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03-29-2013, 03:32 PM
  #312
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Forget his value, or his contract, or the timing.

How does he fit going forward, is he a core player, and what is he doing wrong to be in this current slump? Is he avoiding his usual spots or is it a system thing or what? I really can't tell.

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03-29-2013, 03:40 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Forget his value, or his contract, or the timing.

How does he fit going forward, is he a core player, and what is he doing wrong to be in this current slump? Is he avoiding his usual spots or is it a system thing or what? I really can't tell.
I personally don't care that he is slumping because I know he will get out of it. He is good for 60 points a year. Aside from his point production, though, he brings nothing else.

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03-29-2013, 03:42 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
I'm so impressed. The best we could get was a second and a bad prospect.
Desharnais is played on the Canadiens like a first or second line center. With the exception of terrible teams centers, which first/second line center in the league do you know that doesn't get you at least get you a third line roster player or a fifth dman?

Gallagher would get us Jagr instantly at this point. Dallas would laugh at us if we tried to offer Desharnais straight up for Jagr.
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
lol?

Hes easily worth a 2nd and a good prospect.
Desharnais doesn't play like a 1st line center. He doesn't get #1 minutes.

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03-29-2013, 03:48 PM
  #315
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So lets do this

for the rest of the season DD plays with Eller and Armstrong , no pp time and 12 minutes a game

and Galchy plays with Gallagher and Max and lets see how they both do

i would be shocked if Galchy didnt do more than DD
Or better yet, why dont the Canadiens keep playing as a team with each individual contributing in their own way as they have been this season so we can stay in first place in the North East.

The Canadiens play against other hockey teams. The Habs players do not play against other Habs players on the team.

This is a great concept. Why not pull for the Montreal Canadiens instead of your favorite player? When the Habs are winning, you will find yourself less frustrated if your favorite had a rough night.

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03-29-2013, 04:05 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
I personally don't care that he is slumping because I know he will get out of it. He is good for 60 points a year. Aside from his point production, though, he brings nothing else.
He's great in the shootout.. I think he's got the best percentage on the team.. an area that is important this day and age, especially since we usually lose a lot of points in that area.

He also seems good in the locker room. I don't have proof, but it seems like everyone that plays with him loves him (Gallagher, Pacioretty, Cammalleri) and even a guy like Prust was pumped when he signed his contract.

He's a heart and soul guy, who is good for ~50-65 points per year, signed to a contract less than 50% more than what a guy like Moen makes.

If Desharnais is struggling his way to 50-points, what's he going to do when he catches on fire? Which, if history is an indication, he will.

Now before someone jumps down my throat, no, he's not playing well right now. And hasn't played well for a handful of games lately. I do think him and Pacioretty should take some time apart because they are are relying too much on "old tricks."

When Bourque returns, I wouldn't be against a line of Galchenyuk-Desharnais-Ryder as our third line. Pacioretty-Eller-Gallagher as our 2nd and our first staying the same as the start of the year. Our 3rd line would be putrid defensively, but they should be able to take advantage of the "soft" (I hate that term) minutes against defensive players.

We have so many options wonce we're healthy. We just need to get healthy because it kills our depth. Eller, offensively, has disappeared (he's still playing a great puck possession game but you can only do so much playing with Colby Armstrong for 15 minutes a game).

I also don't see a problem with having 4 centres. When the time comes, Eller or DD can play wing. Or maybe Galchenyuk will develop in a 1st line winger and never play center.. and honestly, so long as we are playing Top-4 in the conference hockey, who really cares?

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03-29-2013, 04:08 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
lol?

Hes easily worth a 2nd and a good prospect.
All I see is speculation of his value here. I don't see an actual offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Desharnais doesn't play like a 1st line center. He doesn't get #1 minutes.
You are right. Plekanec gets more minutes than him. This is because Plekenec is more versatile and is played like our number 1 center. If we had a true #1 center, Plekanec would be our number 2.

IN any case, by virtue of Desharnais's time on ice he would be considered our number 2 center. He still has no trade value for a #2 center.

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03-29-2013, 04:10 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
All I see is speculation of his value here. I don't see an actual offer.



You are right. Plekanec gets more minutes than him. This is because Plekenec is more versatile and is played like our number 1 center. If we had a true #1 center, Plekanec would be our number 2.

IN any case, by virtue of his time on ice he would be considered our number 2 center. He still has no trade value for a #2 center.
You have awful high expectations to say that Plekanec is not a true #1 center, unless you're ranking him in the "Malkin" group of #2 centers.

He's finished in the Top-30 scoring centers in 5 of the last 6 years despite playing against the best offensive players in the league.

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03-29-2013, 04:27 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
He's great in the shootout.. I think he's got the best percentage on the team.. an area that is important this day and age, especially since we usually lose a lot of points in that area.

He also seems good in the locker room. I don't have proof, but it seems like everyone that plays with him loves him (Gallagher, Pacioretty, Cammalleri) and even a guy like Prust was pumped when he signed his contract.


He's a heart and soul guy, who is good for ~50-65 points per year, signed to a contract less than 50% more than what a guy like Moen makes.

If Desharnais is struggling his way to 50-points, what's he going to do when he catches on fire? Which, if history is an indication, he will.

Now before someone jumps down my throat, no, he's not playing well right now. And hasn't played well for a handful of games lately. I do think him and Pacioretty should take some time apart because they are are relying too much on "old tricks."

When Bourque returns, I wouldn't be against a line of Galchenyuk-Desharnais-Ryder as our third line. Pacioretty-Eller-Gallagher as our 2nd and our first staying the same as the start of the year. Our 3rd line would be putrid defensively, but they should be able to take advantage of the "soft" (I hate that term) minutes against defensive players.

We have so many options wonce we're healthy. We just need to get healthy because it kills our depth. Eller, offensively, has disappeared (he's still playing a great puck possession game but you can only do so much playing with Colby Armstrong for 15 minutes a game).

I also don't see a problem with having 4 centres. When the time comes, Eller or DD can play wing. Or maybe Galchenyuk will develop in a 1st line winger and never play center.. and honestly, so long as we are playing Top-4 in the conference hockey, who really cares?
In shootouts:
Desharnais is 2 out of 4
Galchenyuk is 2 out of 5
Lars Eller is 1 out of 2
Gallager is 1 out of 2

This is not a big enough sample size for us to say that Deshernais is the best at shootouts.

In terms of his locker room presence all we could do is speculate. To me he seems like a quiet likeable guy with no locker room presence. That's just me

I see a problem with having four centres. This is my whole argument. I think we were better off just trading him and putting Lars Eller at number 2 center.

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03-29-2013, 04:45 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
You have awful high expectations to say that Plekanec is not a true #1 center, unless you're ranking him in the "Malkin" group of #2 centers.

He's finished in the Top-30 scoring centers in 5 of the last 6 years despite playing against the best offensive players in the league.
Plekenec remains my favourite player on the Habs with Subban not far behind. I do think he is the prototypical second line center when trying to build a powerhouse. But hey, if you wanna argue that he is an actual 1st line center you won't get me arguing too much with you. I love everything about Plekanec and what he brings to this team and would be considered a number 1 center by many.

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03-29-2013, 05:05 PM
  #321
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No doubt about it IMO, and while we don't see it too much, there is some pressure to get hometown players to come back for there teams, just not the level it is in Mtl. Toronto has had some pressure to have more guys from Ontario, and I remember even Burke had to respond once by showing that in the past few years, the Leafs have drafted the most guys from Ontario. The Wild put a little pressure to get some guys from that state as-well, and hence the big push to get Parise.

For me I have no problem with DD, and his size shouldn't be an issue, because going forward, I think the only undersized forwards on the team are going to be him and Gallagher, with Gionta on the way out (nothing wrong with his play).

Our size issue is on D, and that too should be fixed with Tinordi, and Beaulieu almost ready.

The only issue, well its more of a question, is how does DD and Eller fit long term, Gally will be a centre in a year or 2 max, and at that point you have to decide what are you going to do with the other 3 guys, because 1 has to be moved, both DD and Eller are better centre then they are wings, Plek has been so valuable. We still have time to make a decision, but its coming sooner than later IMO.
Hummmm.....did you already forgot about 5'9" Dumont....or 5'10" Hudon or 5'11" Kristo and Collberg.....

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03-29-2013, 05:08 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
2 examples.
Isn't that what we got for Gill and Kostitsyn
2 players we loved so much here in MTL...

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03-29-2013, 05:20 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
In shootouts:
Desharnais is 2 out of 4
Galchenyuk is 2 out of 5
Lars Eller is 1 out of 2
Gallager is 1 out of 2

This is not a big enough sample size for us to say that Deshernais is the best at shootouts.

In terms of his locker room presence all we could do is speculate. To me he seems like a quiet likeable guy with no locker room presence. That's just me

I see a problem with having four centres. This is my whole argument. I think we were better off just trading him and putting Lars Eller at number 2 center.
Why would you just take the shootouts from this year to do that? Desharnais is 8 for 18 career, or 44.4%, which is pretty good (as far as I know).

Why do you see a problem with four centres, when two of them have played wing well and the other (Desharnais) looked good in his only period there. Let's say we trade Desharnais, and we get pooched with injuries at C (two injuries).. We'd be going to war with Dumont as our #2 center, Halpern #3, and White #4. Even one injury, would hurt, because we'd be using Halpern as a #3 center.. especially if it's long-term.

It's incredible having the center depth, that if we do get an injury at center, we have a player capable of sliding over to the middle of the ice while still keeping our depth. Our center depth, outside of the NHL, is pretty terrible.

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Plekenec remains my favourite player on the Habs with Subban not far behind. I do think he is the prototypical second line center when trying to build a powerhouse. But hey, if you wanna argue that he is an actual 1st line center you won't get me arguing too much with you. I love everything about Plekanec and what he brings to this team and would be considered a number 1 center by many.
Sure, if you wanted to build a powerhouse, you'd want Plekanec a little lower in the depth chart because of his fantastic two-way play and you can rely on others to be a #1 guy. In Vancouver, say, he'd be the #2 center in terms of offensive dependency... but he'd still, IMO, be the best center on that team.

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All I see is speculation of his value here. I don't see an actual offer.
A Devils fan offered Tallinder + Urbom for Desharnais + late pick.

A Sharks fan says Desharnais would replace the 1st Round pick in the rumored "1st + good prospect" for Clowe (and he added Petricki, which most people would love here because of his size even though he's mediocre at best).


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03-29-2013, 06:47 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Why would you just take the shootouts from this year to do that? Desharnais is 8 for 18 career, or 44.4%, which is pretty good (as far as I know).

Why do you see a problem with four centres, when two of them have played wing well and the other (Desharnais) looked good in his only period there. Let's say we trade Desharnais, and we get pooched with injuries at C (two injuries).. We'd be going to war with Dumont as our #2 center, Halpern #3, and White #4. Even one injury, would hurt, because we'd be using Halpern as a #3 center.. especially if it's long-term.

It's incredible having the center depth, that if we do get an injury at center, we have a player capable of sliding over to the middle of the ice while still keeping our depth. Our center depth, outside of the NHL, is pretty terrible.



Sure, if you wanted to build a powerhouse, you'd want Plekanec a little lower in the depth chart because of his fantastic two-way play and you can rely on others to be a #1 guy. In Vancouver, say, he'd be the #2 center in terms of offensive dependency... but he'd still, IMO, be the best center on that team.


A Devils fan offered Tallinder + Urbom for Desharnais + late pick.

A Sharks fan says Desharnais would replace the 1st Round pick in the rumored "1st + good prospect" for Clowe (and he added Petricki, which most people would love here because of his size even though he's mediocre at best).

I guess you could say Desharnais is good at shootouts. This means he has one other aspect that he brings. That's not nearly enough for me to warrant his contract though.

In terms of injuries, if we lose Plekenec, we are done. We are not winning a playoff series this year. He is that important to this team. No one currently on our roster can replace what he does. In the future, Eller and Galchenyuk will be able to though

In terms of the offer, don't know too much about Patrecki, Uborn. They seem like borderline NHLers to me. In terms of Tallinder, what's with him being off the roster? Not sure what's going on there.

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03-29-2013, 06:49 PM
  #325
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Isn't that what we got for Gill and Kostitsyn
2 players we loved so much here in MTL...
Yes, that's what we got for Gill. Only a 2nd for Kosty though.

They are comparable in impact. A defensively specialist and an incomplete total package player. I mean, everyone has their faults, DD is his size.

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