HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Bergenheim Situation

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-18-2013, 01:02 AM
  #51
JonathanHuberdoh
Sacrilicious
 
JonathanHuberdoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Towanna
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,250
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JonathanHuberdoh
Honestly I really like Goc, and I don't know how much value he has to another team in comparison to us.

The reason I want to keep him is mainly because of injuries. We all know our history with them. Goc is a great depth guy that can step into a serviceable amount of positions throughout the season. He is strong on faceoffs. If all we can fetch is a 3rd rounder, I'd rather keep him.

Having Goc centering our 4th line and stepping in when needed is a BIG upgrade over someone like Smithson. I feel like Skille and Goc could be 2/3rds of a solid 4th line for us next year.

JonathanHuberdoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2013, 05:13 AM
  #52
ShootIt
M F P G A
 
ShootIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 561
Country: United States
Posts: 13,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Honestly I really like Goc, and I don't know how much value he has to another team in comparison to us.

The reason I want to keep him is mainly because of injuries. We all know our history with them. Goc is a great depth guy that can step into a serviceable amount of positions throughout the season. He is strong on faceoffs. If all we can fetch is a 3rd rounder, I'd rather keep him.

Having Goc centering our 4th line and stepping in when needed is a BIG upgrade over someone like Smithson. I feel like Skille and Goc could be 2/3rds of a solid 4th line for us next year.
I agree.

I can't see Dale giving up Goc for only a 3rd round pick.
While Tallon earned some time with the playoffs last year, he can't give up quality players for picks that
1: Have a low chance of making the NHL
2: Will take 2-4 years to potentially crack the roster

Next year, when he is an UFA? Sure. Not this year, which is a throw away year, and when this team needs centers heading into next year.

He can be slotted anywhere from 2nd line to the 4th line, hopefully in the bottom six for next year, and play an ok 2 way game.

Bergenheim-Goc-Skille/Kopecky, would be very nice for next season. Hustle, grit and some goal scoring added all into one package.

Glad to read that the Bergy situation did not have an ugly ending. Hope to see him on the ice next season 100% healthy.
JH, curious who do you have as the #3? Shore?
And as the 2 top centers?

ShootIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2013, 09:35 AM
  #53
ThePatientPanther
Fix the PP!!
 
ThePatientPanther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Caledon, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,159
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
We don't have a 3rd round pick this year (went to the Rangers for Wolski). But I agree, if Mike Brown can fetch a conditional 4th round pick (possibly a 3rd round pick if Edmonton makes the playoffs), I have to believe Goc can get back a 3rd rounder.

-ghoste
Ya I checked it out, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully Tallon can get his 3rd rounder back somehow and maybe use our 2nd and the new 3rd to move up the draft somehow to get a high 2nd round or late 1st round pick. I know Mueller, Matthias and Goc could all get us a solid pick but I'd rather keep Matthias and Mueller over Goc even though I feel the guy is very underrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Honestly I really like Goc, and I don't know how much value he has to another team in comparison to us.

The reason I want to keep him is mainly because of injuries. We all know our history with them. Goc is a great depth guy that can step into a serviceable amount of positions throughout the season. He is strong on faceoffs. If all we can fetch is a 3rd rounder, I'd rather keep him.

Having Goc centering our 4th line and stepping in when needed is a BIG upgrade over someone like Smithson. I feel like Skille and Goc could be 2/3rds of a solid 4th line for us next year.
I love Goc too but I don't see Tallon shipping out Matthias or Mueller who are pretty much our biggest trade bait other than a far fetched Kulikov deal. I was just thinking out loud if Tallon wants to move up in the draft trying to get a high 2nd round pick by maneuvering some of his later picks. If he can get a 3rd back, use that and our 2nd rounder to get a late 1st possibly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
I agree.

I can't see Dale giving up Goc for only a 3rd round pick.
While Tallon earned some time with the playoffs last year, he can't give up quality players for picks that
1: Have a low chance of making the NHL
2: Will take 2-4 years to potentially crack the roster

Next year, when he is an UFA? Sure. Not this year, which is a throw away year, and when this team needs centers heading into next year.

He can be slotted anywhere from 2nd line to the 4th line, hopefully in the bottom six for next year, and play an ok 2 way game.

Bergenheim-Goc-Skille/Kopecky, would be very nice for next season. Hustle, grit and some goal scoring added all into one package.

Glad to read that the Bergy situation did not have an ugly ending. Hope to see him on the ice next season 100% healthy.
JH, curious who do you have as the #3? Shore?
And as the 2 top centers?
Very true, he is very versatile and truly I'd like to keep him with our Center depth next year in question especially if Weiss leaves which is a good possibility. Tallon has to take adavantage of this draft because we can't be relying on the draft after next year, we have to be contending for the playoffs in 2014-2015 or Tallon's plan will be delayed another couple years and I don't want to wait until 2015-2016 for us to become another playoff bubble team.

Goc, Matthias (if re-signed) and Shore are our top 3 centers right now and possibly for next year, we as Panther fans know that isn't talented enough YET to get the job done. I saw Darren Dreger of TSN tweet saying Bozak will probably be a UFA this season, I say he's a capable stopgap for a couple years if Weiss is leaving. A 3 year deal for Bozak would be ideal if possible but he will probably want 4-5years. Although he isn't a true #1 Center, we've dealt with that issue before with Weiss.
I'd be more comfortable with:

Bozak -#1
Shore -#2
Goc - #3
Matthias -#4

then

Shore -#1
Goc -#2
Matthias -#3
Unfilled -#4

ThePatientPanther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2013, 09:44 AM
  #54
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 15,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Ya I checked it out, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully Tallon can get his 3rd rounder back somehow and maybe use our 2nd and the new 3rd to move up the draft somehow to get a high 2nd round or late 1st round pick. I know Mueller, Matthias and Goc could all get us a solid pick but I'd rather keep Matthias and Mueller over Goc even though I feel the guy is very underrated.



I love Goc too but I don't see Tallon shipping out Matthias or Mueller who are pretty much our biggest trade bait other than a far fetched Kulikov deal. I was just thinking out loud if Tallon wants to move up in the draft trying to get a high 2nd round pick by maneuvering some of his later picks. If he can get a 3rd back, use that and our 2nd rounder to get a late 1st possibly?



Very true, he is very versatile and truly I'd like to keep him with our Center depth next year in question especially if Weiss leaves which is a good possibility. Tallon has to take adavantage of this draft because we can't be relying on the draft after next year, we have to be contending for the playoffs in 2014-2015 or Tallon's plan will be delayed another couple years and I don't want to wait until 2015-2016 for us to become another playoff bubble team.

Goc, Matthias (if re-signed) and Shore are our top 3 centers right now and possibly for next year, we as Panther fans know that isn't talented enough YET to get the job done. I saw Darren Dreger of TSN tweet saying Bozak will probably be a UFA this season, I say he's a capable stopgap for a couple years if Weiss is leaving. A 3 year deal for Bozak would be ideal if possible but he will probably want 4-5years. Although he isn't a true #1 Center, we've dealt with that issue before with Weiss.
I'd be more comfortable with:

Bozak -#1
Shore -#2
Goc - #3
Matthias -#4

then

Shore -#1
Goc -#2
Matthias -#3
Unfilled -#4
With Jovo leaving, I'm more confident we can afford to get Bozak. I'm concerend he will want a long contract and length will be the deal breaker. If we go into next season without Weiss or a real Weiss replacement, we are not going to make the playoffs. I think Tallon realizes this and will be aggressive in trying to fill that #1 role even if it's a guy like Bozak. I've warmed up to the idea of him playing here.

I do thinkn Goc is getting traded. Matthias might have won the third line center role with his recent play. Goc has been pretty invisible but will bring back a decent return. A second round pick is completely reasonable for him.

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2013, 09:56 AM
  #55
ThePatientPanther
Fix the PP!!
 
ThePatientPanther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Caledon, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,159
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
With Jovo leaving, I'm more confident we can afford to get Bozak. I'm concerend he will want a long contract and length will be the deal breaker. If we go into next season without Weiss or a real Weiss replacement, we are not going to make the playoffs. I think Tallon realizes this and will be aggressive in trying to fill that #1 role even if it's a guy like Bozak. I've warmed up to the idea of him playing here.

I do thinkn Goc is getting traded. Matthias might have won the third line center role with his recent play. Goc has been pretty invisible but will bring back a decent return. A second round pick is completely reasonable for him.
We actually agree on something? .......... But we're still not finished with our Skille debate

Ya I like Goc alot but I feel Tallon will get a ton of offers for him from the Cup contenders looking for depth at Center. I don't see him as a crucial part of Dale's "blueprint" so he is expendable even though most agree he's a beauty for 3rd or 4th line roles on this team.

In an ideal world, I'd keep him but Tallon knows he can fetch a solid pick for him and possibly work his way up the draft. I'd love to see Dale work his magic and get us a late 1st or high 2nd pick to go along with our expected #1 overall but it's more realistic to see us getting a 3rd-5th overall pick knowing our luck as Panther fans.

ThePatientPanther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2013, 10:00 AM
  #56
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 15,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
We actually agree on something? .......... But we're still not finished with our Skille debate

Ya I like Goc alot but I feel Tallon will get a ton of offers for him from the Cup contenders looking for depth at Center. I don't see him as a crucial part of Dale's "blueprint" so he is expendable even though most agree he's a beauty for 3rd or 4th line roles on this team.

In an ideal world, I'd keep him but Tallon knows he can fetch a solid pick for him and possibly work his way up the draft. I'd love to see Dale work his magic and get us a late 1st or high 2nd pick to go along with our expected #1 overall but it's more realistic to see us getting a 3rd-5th overall pick knowing our luck as Panther fans.
Contending teams would give up a second for Goc, imo. I think a third is low, especially if it's a team like Chicago.

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2013, 10:08 AM
  #57
ThePatientPanther
Fix the PP!!
 
ThePatientPanther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Caledon, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,159
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Contending teams would give up a second for Goc, imo. I think a third is low, especially if it's a team like Chicago.
If that's possible, I'm sure Dale could use the two 2nd rounders we have to trade for a late 1st anywhere from #22-30 overall which would be amazing having two 1st round picks in the draft. If this happens, Tallon has alot more freedom to choose Jones if he's available and still use the other 1st on a solid forward. Or the other way around picking Mac or Drounin and using the other 1st on a d-man.

ThePatientPanther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 08:03 AM
  #58
Rats96Yo
Registered User
 
Rats96Yo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Coral Springs
Posts: 425
vCash: 500
In an effort to bring the post back on topic...

As much as I liked Bergenheim, I highly doubt the front office is bringing him back next year. They are not happy he sued, much less won his case when it is suspicious that he went to play overseas at the beginning of this year. Just put me in the "surprised if he's back next year" side.

Rats96Yo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 09:21 AM
  #59
ursavolta
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: miami, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rats96Yo View Post
In an effort to bring the post back on topic...

As much as I liked Bergenheim, I highly doubt the front office is bringing him back next year. They are not happy he sued, much less won his case when it is suspicious that he went to play overseas at the beginning of this year. Just put me in the "surprised if he's back next year" side.
Awesome avatar btw.

I do not think the whole Bergenheim / Front office drama really comes into much play here. I think it just business and things will fall into place once he is fit to play. Besides, didn't a user post a tweet or quote stating that there isn't any bad blood between front office and Bergenheim? Again, who can believe that but I feel it reflects the validity of the situation.

ursavolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 09:52 AM
  #60
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 15,437
vCash: 500
I think Bergie will be back. I also think fans have a tendency to read into situations too much. They had a disagreement over an issue and it's been settled. Unless he wants to be traded he'll be back, imo. Tallon is going to have a nice third line with Bergie-Matthias-Kopecky next year.

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #61
Rats96Yo
Registered User
 
Rats96Yo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Coral Springs
Posts: 425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
Awesome avatar btw.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I think Bergie will be back. I also think fans have a tendency to read into situations too much. They had a disagreement over an issue and it's been settled.
It's been settled alright, but to the tune of ~2.75 million in the red (heh so to speak). That's alot to get stuck with. Like I said, I love what he brings, do I think he's worth it? Sure, but from what I've heard, not just read, he won't be here. Not that I work in the front office, just good at culling info around the arena

Rats96Yo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 03:09 PM
  #62
ThePatientPanther
Fix the PP!!
 
ThePatientPanther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Caledon, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,159
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rats96Yo View Post




It's been settled alright, but to the tune of ~2.75 million in the red (heh so to speak). That's alot to get stuck with. Like I said, I love what he brings, do I think he's worth it? Sure, but from what I've heard, not just read, he won't be here. Not that I work in the front office, just good at culling info around the arena
Add Bergy's $2.75 million along with Weiss's, Versteeg's, Theo's, and Jovo's salaries and we're just throwing money out the window this year (over $15million). Next year we better not have any long term problems with these guys. Only Versteeg and Bergy are the ones that SHOULD be back next year with Weiss, Jovo and Theo being the mysteries.

The injury curse has run it's course through this franchise the last 3 years and over the years as well, time for another team to take it over. The players better be prepared come October 2013, I don't want to have an excuse of injuries to blame for the 2013-14 season being a failure like this one has become. Our luck has to change at some point.

ThePatientPanther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 07:45 PM
  #63
Dread Clawz
LAWSonic Boom
 
Dread Clawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 18,087
vCash: 500
We only have 5 picks in this draft and Matthias has shown he can handle the 3rd line center role I think. I like Goc but if we can get a decent pick or prospect for him, he's probably gone. I'd like Tallon to get as many picks as he can so he can do some maneuvering this draft. We have a likely top 5 pick, and an early 2nd round pick. We might be able to somehow get another pick or two in the top 90 as well, in a very deep draft.

Dread Clawz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 10:30 PM
  #64
ursavolta
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: miami, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We only have 5 picks in this draft and Matthias has shown he can handle the 3rd line center role I think. I like Goc but if we can get a decent pick or prospect for him, he's probably gone. I'd like Tallon to get as many picks as he can so he can do some maneuvering this draft. We have a likely top 5 pick, and an early 2nd round pick. We might be able to somehow get another pick or two in the top 90 as well, in a very deep draft.
I think trading goc will only come if we get an established forward or a defensive coming back.. we have a very deep pool and I think hoarding picks isnt such a bright idea... then again we can trade goc for a 2nd and then trade that 2nd for an established player..

I rather try to bolster up our main core now in a smart fashion instead of selling all the time..Goc is severely underrated around here and he comes in a cheap caphit..

ursavolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 03:37 PM
  #65
HockeyRulez
Let's Go Panthers!
 
HockeyRulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Sunshine State
Country: United States
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
will Bergenheim be back next year?

HockeyRulez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 04:24 PM
  #66
Ghoste
#CatsAreComing
 
Ghoste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
will Bergenheim be back next year?
I say yes!

-ghoste

Ghoste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 04:27 PM
  #67
CanadianPantherFan
Cats are Here!
 
CanadianPantherFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,720
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Honestly I really like Goc, and I don't know how much value he has to another team in comparison to us.

The reason I want to keep him is mainly because of injuries. We all know our history with them. Goc is a great depth guy that can step into a serviceable amount of positions throughout the season. He is strong on faceoffs. If all we can fetch is a 3rd rounder, I'd rather keep him.

Having Goc centering our 4th line and stepping in when needed is a BIG upgrade over someone like Smithson. I feel like Skille and Goc could be 2/3rds of a solid 4th line for us next year.
He can even play some 1st line minutes in a pinch. I don't understand his name being thrown around either for 2nd and 3rd round picks...we have wayyyy too many young 2nd and 3rd round prospects in our pipeline already. Goc is worth more taking all that into consideration above.

CanadianPantherFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 05:25 PM
  #68
KW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We only have 5 picks in this draft and Matthias has shown he can handle the 3rd line center role I think. I like Goc but if we can get a decent pick or prospect for him, he's probably gone. I'd like Tallon to get as many picks as he can so he can do some maneuvering this draft. We have a likely top 5 pick, and an early 2nd round pick. We might be able to somehow get another pick or two in the top 90 as well, in a very deep draft.
I love DT's drafting skills but at some friggin point we've done enough and need to stop thinking about rebuilding and actually build a team, like next season. The panthers have lulled us all into believing playoffs once a decade ain't that bad an achievement.....I've had it with all the rebuilding. Dineen is a good coach, go to FA, do some trades, get a real team. If you just continually draft, by the time you've had enough draftees, the huberdeaus will be looking for a big contract, which the panthers won't spring for so the process repeats ad infinitum. Enough.

KW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #70
Gaebriel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 961
vCash: 500
Goc for a 3rd talk is crazy. His value in a trade isn't worth what he brings to this team.

http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/


Last edited by Gaebriel: 03-25-2013 at 11:39 PM.
Gaebriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2013, 02:14 PM
  #71
ursavolta
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: miami, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaebriel View Post
Goc for a 3rd talk is crazy. His value in a trade isn't worth what he brings to this team.

http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/
I agree, I think Goc is severely underrated and a great asset to the team.

ursavolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-29-2013, 01:13 PM
  #72
Mantis
I am a doctah
 
Mantis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,597
vCash: 50
Sorry to derail the topic with more Goc talk but a good comparison for his value would be Chris Kelly. The Bruins traded a 2nd rounder for him in 2011. Every season is different tho. Paul Gaustad fetched a 1st somehow last year.

Mantis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-29-2013, 05:49 PM
  #73
Dread Clawz
LAWSonic Boom
 
Dread Clawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 18,087
vCash: 500
Goc would definitely fetch more than a 3rd. It's a seller's market and with Pittsburgh snatching everybody up, all the other contenders are going to have to make some moves quickly here.

Dread Clawz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.