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Old
03-29-2013, 08:50 PM
  #1
Spektre
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Two questions on the Blues future

1. What will the Blues do going forward.

2. If you are the GM of the Blues what direction do you go?




1. I think we've seen a large enough sample from Army & Co to kind of know what we're going to get. Especially given the ownership doesn't have the money to spend like the Pittsburgh's of the world.

At this point I do look for the Blues to shake up the core somewhat. I could see Perron going. I could even see Oshie going. Personally I'd rather keep Oshie. Maybe Berglund will go?

Someone I think is on the way out for a solid big D. They'll try to grind out the rest of the season and continue to build through the Draft.

2) If I'm the GM of the Blues today I take stock of my team. I see much the same in most of the forwards.

Above average Forwards but no stars. Two Def that look to anchor the Blues for quite a while to come and maybe a surprise in Russel. Tell Russel every game that Pie & Shatty aren't playing. In Goal I'm not sure what we have long term. Who knows, maybe Allen will have a bright future. I don't see Halak ever being an elite goalie. Even last year I thought the Blues goalies were made to look better than they were due to the play of the entire team defensively.

So what to do going forward? As the GM I know funds are limited. I also know the Blues aren't going to finish in the bottom 3 in the league to get a top 3 draft pick.

As GM it's my decision that Tarasenko will be, at this point, my team's best goal scorer. I know Stewart & Berglund are having good years. But my eye is on the 21 year old.

So my decison is to build around the kid. Here's what I attempt to do. I do almost everything I can to get a top pick in this year's draft. I don't give up the farm but that's my goal. More pressing than that deal I put together some kind of package and get Bouwmeester to solidify the D.

I know his price is hefty but it's time to pony up. Bouwmeester is key #1.

Key #2, in the upcoming draft I get to the top in picks and choose Valery Nichushkin. It's my feeling that the team's best choice going forward is building around Tarasenko. I do this by bringing in a top Russian prospect to gel with Vladi.

What's your moves?

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03-29-2013, 09:13 PM
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I would just be patient and stay the course and recognize this year just wasn't our year (so far). Chalk it up as a weird year with the lockout. I think the Blues have plenty of talent to make a deep run for many years to come, plus a few high end prospects and the addition of Schwartz and Tarasenko who will keep getting better and better. I wouldn't panic.

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03-29-2013, 09:17 PM
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1. What will the Blues do going forward.
Kind of a vague question but I will say that they need to get rid of some assets. The Blues WILL not be able to pay Oshie, Berglund, Perron, Pietrangelo, Stewart, Shattenkirk and Allen. I expect at least two of them not to be on the Blues within a couple years. It's easy to pick on Perron and Berglund in my opinion but realisitcally the top end of that talent pool would be easier to move and make for a more attractive trade for PROVEN experienced NHL talent.

2. If you are the GM of the Blues what direction do you go?
I would try to get a star player locked up for a LONG time. This team misses that guy that IS the face of the franchise. Lets face it Backes isn't cutting it, Oshie isnt cutting it, nobody is that star player that people look at the Blues and say "WOW!" or "Uh oh we have to face him tonight?" Whether it be a G, F or D this team needs that one guy who stands above everyone else... consistently. And who is that? I have no idea but it's what this team needs and if I were the GM nobody would be untouchable. That doesn't mean trade anything for anything; that means make the right deal and we DO have the assets to do so.

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03-29-2013, 09:20 PM
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I would trade off our current core for more vetern type players that can play on the 1st line and continue to build our offense around Tarasenko. We have our franchise defenseman and a PP QB PMD in Shatty and Allen could be our future in the net. All of these younger players are our new core. Build around them.

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03-29-2013, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilthyNote View Post
1. What will the Blues do going forward.
Kind of a vague question but I will say that they need to get rid of some assets. The Blues WILL not be able to pay Oshie, Berglund, Perron, Pietrangelo, Stewart, Shattenkirk and Allen. I expect at least two of them not to be on the Blues within a couple years. It's easy to pick on Perron and Berglund in my opinion but realisitcally the top end of that talent pool would be easier to move and make for a more attractive trade for PROVEN experienced NHL talent.

2. If you are the GM of the Blues what direction do you go?
I would try to get a star player locked up for a LONG time. This team misses that guy that IS the face of the franchise. Lets face it Backes isn't cutting it, Oshie isnt cutting it, nobody is that star player that people look at the Blues and say "WOW!" or "Uh oh we have to face him tonight?" Whether it be a G, F or D this team needs that one guy who stands above everyone else... consistently. And who is that? I have no idea but it's what this team needs and if I were the GM nobody would be untouchable. That doesn't mean trade anything for anything; that means make the right deal and we DO have the assets to do so.
Aren't oshie,perron, and berglund already locked up for the next few years? Also, how do you expect to pay for a star player if we supposedly can't afford the players we already have?

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03-29-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve French View Post
Aren't oshie,perron, and berglund already locked up for the next few years? Also, how do you expect to pay for a star player if we supposedly can't afford the players we already have?
We have the depth to get rid of 2 players getting paid 4+ and spend 8+ on one and still come out with 3 scoring lines.

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03-29-2013, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
We have the depth to get rid of 2 players getting paid 4+ and spend 8+ on one and still come out with 3 scoring lines.
So you think its a better idea to trade one of our reasonably priced core players for a star player that commands 8+ million? Sorry, but that doesn't sound anything like Doug Armstrong, and just because 4+4=8 doesn't mean we could afford it if we dumped two of those player. The Blues are broke right now, that's why we had to sell peoria.


Edit: And if we are talking about dumping salary why don't we dump our highest paid player, Halak? He adds nothing to this team other than a big question mark. If Armstrong wants to fix this team it might behoove of him to fix his biggest mistake as GM.


Last edited by Steve Doan: 03-29-2013 at 09:58 PM.
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03-29-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve French View Post
So you think its a better idea to trade one of our reasonably priced core players for a star player that commands 8+ million? Sorry, but that doesn't sound anything like Doug Armstrong, and just because 4+4=8 doesn't mean we could afford it if we dumped two of those player. The Blues are broke right now, that's why we had to sell peoria.


Edit: And if we are talking about dumping salary why don't we dump our highest paid player, Halak? He adds nothing to this team other than a big question mark.
Then Doug Armstrong needs to go. This team desperately needs that superstar player. And if its at the cost of 2 slightly above average players then why wouldn't you do it?

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03-29-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
Then Doug Armstrong needs to go. This team desperately needs that superstar player. And if its at the cost of 2 slightly above average players then why wouldn't you do it?
What exactly leads you to believe a player making 8+ million will instantly make this team better, because unless your trading two of those pieces for Crosby or Malkin I could not see it making our team better. We saw last year that this team has everything it takes to compete day in and day out, they just need to get to that defense FIRST mentality of last year. Last year when we scored three goals we almost NEVER lost, this year it doesn't really matter how many we score. Doug Armstrong is the best GM in hockey, if we got rid of him I would lose faith in this franchise permanently.

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03-29-2013, 10:24 PM
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Armstrong is aggressive, but this shortened year is weird. He probably wants to shake it up, but will only do so if a deal is available that won't mutilate the team. Bouwmeester, for example, has probably been available for a while and the Blues haven't paid the price yet. Six million for just a year is a problem, and if I'm Calgary and I'm trading him, I'm more likely to hang onto him and deal him next year than I am to accept some complicated conditional picks a year or more down the line. And if Calgary is expected to retain a large chunk of his salary, the Blues will have to overpay. Some people feel more strongly one way or another about this, but I'm not sure Bouwmeester is a guy for whom you overpay.

If they're dealing core players like Oshie, Berglund, or Perron, and especially if you're overpaying, you shoot for somebody more like Yandle, who is signed for longer and has performed well in the playoffs.

The team's future is definitely with guys like Tarasenko and Schwartz, but they are not the team's present, yet. That's the big problem. You can't deal them, but they aren't ready to be huge contributors, either. So you're going to have an odd space in your roster. I think they both belong in the NHL right now, but it's far easier to bring along players like that when you have serious top line talent. So, yes, I'm all for bundling multiple pieces to make the Blues more top-heavy. The problem is, who's available? Maybe Thornton and that's about it. Another expensive guy with just one more year on his deal.

I'm not panicking, but for the sake of speculation, now (or this offseason) might be an ideal time to move Backes. His value is still high and even though he's the type of player every team wants, he's also the type of player who doesn't get the job done until you can bring in top-flight talent to surround him - just like with Brown in LA. And if the Blues cannot afford top-flight talent to go along WITH Backes (due to money, assets, or both), it's time to consider getting top-flight talent FOR him.


Last edited by rumrokh: 03-30-2013 at 01:25 AM. Reason: grammar
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03-29-2013, 10:25 PM
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Because this team does not have a difference maker on offense. Tarasenko is not yet there yet but another difference maker puts us closer to a cup than having 3 lines full of 2nd line players. This team does not have the consistency to win the cup as it is. We need a LHD, #1 Goalie, and #1C. We have the pieces to to fill those holes while still being a budget team.

Berglund+ is what we start for a #1C.

We could acquire a decent partner for Petro with Cole+ or if we want an a true #2 it starts with Perron/Oshie.

Now for the #1 Goalie it obviously starts with Halak+.

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03-29-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Armstrong is aggressive, but this shortened year is weird. He probably wants to shake it up, but will only do so if a deal is available that won't mutilate the team. Bouwmeester, for example, has probably been available for a while and the Blues haven't paid the price yet. Six million for just a year is a problem, and if I'm Calgary and I'm trading him, I'm more likely to hang onto him and deal him next year than I am to accept some complicated conditional picks a year or more down the line. And if Calgary is expected to retain a large chunk of his salary, the Blues will have to overpay. Some people feel more strongly one way or another about this, but I'm not sure Bouwmeester is a guy for whom you overpay.

If they're dealing core players like Oshie, Berglund, or Perron, and especially if you're overpaying, you shoot for somebody more like Yandle, who is signed for longer and has performed well in the playoffs.

The team's future is definitely with guys like Tarasenko and Schwartz, but they are not the team's present, yet. That's the big problem. You can't deal them, but they aren't ready to be huge contributors, either. So you're going to have an odd space in your roster. I think they both belong in the NHL right now, but it's far easier to bring along players like that when you have serious top line talent. So, yes, I'm all for bundling multiple pieces to make the Blues more top-heavy. The problem is, who's available? Maybe Thornton and that's about it. Another expensive guy with just one more year on his deal.

I'm not panicking, but for the sake of speculation, now (or this offseason) might be an ideal time to move Backes. His value is still high and even though he's the type of player every team wants, he's also the type of player who doesn't get the job done until you can bring in top-flight talent to surround him - just like with Brown in LA. And if the Blues cannot afford top-flight talent to along WITH Backes (due to money, assets, or both), it's time to consider getting top-flight talent FOR him.
I could see that happening. It sends the loudest possible message, and would force every player to play at their best. Also, lets face it, Backes isn't getting any better at this point in his career.

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03-29-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I would trade off our current core for more vetern type players that can play on the 1st line and continue to build our offense around Tarasenko. We have our franchise defenseman and a PP QB PMD in Shatty and Allen could be our future in the net. All of these younger players are our new core. Build around them.
I think I could get on board with this, I just worry about the "veterans" we would get. It seems many GMs today pull the trigger with too much money on "veterans" and the "veterans" slump like crazy. Plus, where are we going to get the money. lol Not one GM is going to give us "star veterans" for our core (not the amount of good to star "veterans" that we would like to have).

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03-29-2013, 11:55 PM
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I think I could get on board with this, I just worry about the "veterans" we would get. It seems many GMs today pull the trigger with too much money on "veterans" and the "veterans" slump like crazy. Plus, where are we going to get the money. lol Not one GM is going to give us "star veterans" for our core (not the amount of good to star "veterans" that we would like to have).
The point would be is we wouldn't be spending 4+ for like 6 players but for like 2 or 3. I don't want veteren's that are 36+ and are on obvious decline. Joe Thornton is a perfect example. He is only 33 years old and isn't that expensive at 7mil. Obviously we would move futures as well with our core.

We can't expect for this team to just be our team until they all retire. Players will eventually move and for a lot of these guys they have played 4+ seasons with the Blues already and haven't done a whole lot. Our core (minus Tarasenko, Schwartz, Pietrangelo, and Shattenkirk) have hit their ceiling and it's just not enough to win a cup.

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03-30-2013, 12:05 AM
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Listening to Doug Armstrong today it sounded like he has no freaking idea what the solution is. Literally, he sounded depressed because he has no idea what move would fix things. We are at a serious malaise/crossroads/crisis of confidence in Blues World folks, and nobody including management has any real solutions.

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03-30-2013, 12:06 AM
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Losing makes people think some crazy things......Yes, this teams problems are very concerning, but trading our best players will do us no good. The only way the blues would trade a core piece is if in return they were getting a player on his first contract. It serves no purpose to trade for a player in his 30's with this team.

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03-30-2013, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Listening to Doug Armstrong today it sounded like he has no freaking idea what the solution is. Literally, he sounded depressed because he has no idea what move would fix things. We are at a serious malaise/crossroads/crisis of confidence in Blues World folks, and nobody including management has any real solutions.
Where'd you hear him?

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03-30-2013, 12:23 AM
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Where'd you hear him?
Bernie Miklasz had him on the radio. You could really hear it in his voice. Basically he said the LHD spot had improved to being temporarily "adequate" (ringing endorsement!) while the rest of the team sprouted leaks. He was pretty hard on himself, this is my fault, etc. Not sure what direction to go, nobody wants to make hockey trades, it's only buyers and sellers, etc. Probably right around the time he learned DeKeyser wasn't coming since hypothetically he'd have been coming to the Blues and nothing good ever happens in that regard in all of ever when the Blues are a finalist.

Did get the feeling he doesn't want to pay these RFAs jack **** because they haven't accomplished jack ****.

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03-30-2013, 12:35 AM
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Losing makes people think some crazy things......Yes, this teams problems are very concerning, but trading our best players will do us no good. The only way the blues would trade a core piece is if in return they were getting a player on his first contract. It serves no purpose to trade for a player in his 30's with this team.
Debatable.

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03-30-2013, 01:08 AM
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Debatable.
well, which 30+ player would you be willing to trade for, because I'd be happy to debate whether trading a core piece is a good option, but I don't see any 30+ player on the market that would FIX this team. Again, it serves no purpose to shake up our core for this season alone.

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03-30-2013, 01:33 AM
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Bernie Miklasz had him on the radio. You could really hear it in his voice. Basically he said the LHD spot had improved to being temporarily "adequate" (ringing endorsement!) while the rest of the team sprouted leaks. He was pretty hard on himself, this is my fault, etc. Not sure what direction to go, nobody wants to make hockey trades, it's only buyers and sellers, etc. Probably right around the time he learned DeKeyser wasn't coming since hypothetically he'd have been coming to the Blues and nothing good ever happens in that regard in all of ever when the Blues are a finalist.

Did get the feeling he doesn't want to pay these RFAs jack **** because they haven't accomplished jack ****.
Well with his negotiating skills, they won't get jack **** lol.

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03-30-2013, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Bernie Miklasz had him on the radio. You could really hear it in his voice. Basically he said the LHD spot had improved to being temporarily "adequate" (ringing endorsement!) while the rest of the team sprouted leaks. He was pretty hard on himself, this is my fault, etc. Not sure what direction to go, nobody wants to make hockey trades, it's only buyers and sellers, etc. Probably right around the time he learned DeKeyser wasn't coming since hypothetically he'd have been coming to the Blues and nothing good ever happens in that regard in all of ever when the Blues are a finalist.

Did get the feeling he doesn't want to pay these RFAs jack **** because they haven't accomplished jack ****.
I have a hunch Armstrong is playing his cards close to the vest and something's going down by Wednesday.

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03-30-2013, 05:29 AM
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I have a hunch Armstrong is playing his cards close to the vest and something's going down by Wednesday.
It will be interesting to see if that's the case. With the Blues, other than sell-off deals like Boyes, Brewer, Bishop, etc., he has made no deadline moves. Unless you want to count the Stewart and Shattenkirk trade, which was really out of the ordinary and I don't think had much to do with the deadline, as it was a while before the deadline and was between two teams who were far out at the time.

He made a lot of deadline deals with Dallas, almost all veteran pickups other than the year he took over, when he dealt Langenbrunner and Nieuwendyk for Arnott, McKay, and a 1st and Rucinsky for Malhotra.

He definitely knew what to do when the Stars were buyers and sellers and when the Blues were sellers. He has also made good moves otherwise: Shattenkirk, Stewart, Sobotka, D'Agostini, and even if you're down on him now, Halak was a fine move at the time because the Blues needed a goaltender pretty badly.

The question is whether or not there's even the possibility of magic with what appear to be the most stringent budget restrictions in the league and a team that's not in a position to buy OR sell.
Something significant is possible, but I'd put more money on a small move or two that have the potential to energize the team enough that they don't slip out of the playoffs. Not because I don't have faith in Army, but because just looking at rosters and contracts, what's available seems rough, and I think he's more likely to be patient than he is to do something rash out of fear.

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03-30-2013, 05:52 AM
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It will be interesting to see if that's the case. With the Blues, other than sell-off deals like Boyes, Brewer, Bishop, etc., he has made no deadline moves. Unless you want to count the Stewart and Shattenkirk trade, which was really out of the ordinary and I don't think had much to do with the deadline, as it was a while before the deadline and was between two teams who were far out at the time.

He made a lot of deadline deals with Dallas, almost all veteran pickups other than the year he took over, when he dealt Langenbrunner and Nieuwendyk for Arnott, McKay, and a 1st and Rucinsky for Malhotra.

He definitely knew what to do when the Stars were buyers and sellers and when the Blues were sellers. He has also made good moves otherwise: Shattenkirk, Stewart, Sobotka, D'Agostini, and even if you're down on him now, Halak was a fine move at the time because the Blues needed a goaltender pretty badly.

The question is whether or not there's even the possibility of magic with what appear to be the most stringent budget restrictions in the league and a team that's not in a position to buy OR sell.
Something significant is possible, but I'd put more money on a small move or two that have the potential to energize the team enough that they don't slip out of the playoffs. Not because I don't have faith in Army, but because just looking at rosters and contracts, what's available seems rough, and I think he's more likely to be patient than he is to do something rash out of fear.
Armstrong isn't Ron Caron, that's for sure. ( The Ides of March are upon us in April this year ) And thank goodness Larry Pleau either.

I wonder like others who have posted if Andy McDonald will be moved. To get something instead of just letting him walk away this summer. I'm all but convinced McDonald is traded by Wednesday.

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03-30-2013, 06:23 AM
  #25
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Armstrong isn't Ron Caron, that's for sure. ( The Ides of March are upon us in April this year ) And thank goodness Larry Pleau either.

I wonder like others who have posted if Andy McDonald will be moved. To get something instead of just letting him walk away this summer. I'm all but convinced McDonald is traded by Wednesday.
No matter what other trades they make, I hope McDonald is moved. He's not the same old Andy and the team looks worse with him in the lineup. Get him out for something of value, put Schwartz on a scoring line, and play Porter every game.

I was afraid they'd lose their workmanlike approach as soon as McDonald, Steen, and Tarasenko came back and they'd lose their identity all over again. Compared to the huge slump earlier in the year, they're playing great, but it's clear that they're lacking the right character and balance.

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