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Due Respect to Dupuis' OFFENSIVE Game...

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #76
AquaticBirdman
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Originally Posted by BrookswasHere44 View Post
So many people do...or atleast should wonder WHY Kunitz is on the first PP unit to start with...but as stated since he is his stats are better. Dupper wins in speed, shot, D, hustle, heart, contract, and eyebrows
Kunitz is a career 20-25 goal, 40-60 point player consistently for the majority of his career. I really don't think we should be underrating his skill level quite so much. Especially in comparison to a player that's been known as mostly a defensive, 3rd line player most of his career in Dupuis. Yes, Dupuis brings better intangibles to the table in terms of defending and penalty killing, but I doubt anyone would go as far as to say he's the more talented of the two based solely on 2 seasons.

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02-20-2013, 11:47 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Eyebrows aside, I disagree. Kunitz is a flat out better offensive hockey player.
I, for one, wasn't arguing otherwise, only that statistical discrepancies are proof where one can cite Kunitz getting PP time and time with Sid and Geno as the reason for it (e.g., 19 versus 12 points, but Kunitz has 7 points on the PP).

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03-29-2013, 09:55 AM
  #78
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Bump.

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03-29-2013, 10:19 AM
  #79
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Dupers has earned every penny of the extra $1.5M he's going to take away from Kennedy this summer.

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03-29-2013, 10:21 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Dupers has earned every penny of the extra $1.5M he's going to take away from Kennedy this summer.
And then some. Only on the Pens can you see players like Kunitz and Duppers having career years at the age of 33-34 years old. Both are due for a definite pay raise.

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03-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #81
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On pace for a 40 goals, 60 points season... definitively impressive !
I'm interested to see if he's going to keep producing on the third line, after Iginla arrives here.

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03-29-2013, 10:59 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Bengui View Post
On pace for a 40 goals, 60 points season... definitively impressive !
I'm interested to see if he's going to keep producing on the third line, after Iginla arrives here.
He's probably going to continue producing on the first line after Iginla arrives here, based on reports so far

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03-29-2013, 11:01 AM
  #83
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Again, taking nothing away from how well he has played offensively the last few weeks, you cant judge a veteran who has established himself on a small period or even one year of exceptional play.

The fact remains that the guy is a sub 10% career shooter. he has been out of this world this year, but its clearly an abbhoration. he is shooting like 15%, which is like 3% better than his career best.

The fact also remains that when he moved to the Pens with their star centers, he went from a 8 to 9% shooter to a about an 11% guy, a clear sign that he gets more space and time here... but one has to wonder what a guy like iginla or even another younger option who already shoots better than dupruis without the benefit of Sid and Geno and Sutter/Staal would do with the same Ice time with said centers and without the focus of the defensive gameplan on them...

With the Sid Kunitz Dupris line, you have 3 guys who can forecheck and backcheck and grind and score, but as for playmaking Dupris is clearly a step below. You are talking about a guy playing with the two top point producers in the league, who up to about two weeks ago was hovering outside of the top 100 in points... who still is only barely in the top 50 while playing with some marvelous players....

Dupris is OK as a top 6 winger, but lets not get carried away here... he is absolutely the most replaceable player on that line, and it shows... Neal, who has had a miserable few weeks, still outpaces him in ppg by a decent margin. If the other two on his line were defensively irresponsible, slow, or not suited to grinding, then yes, you keep a guy like him there... but its overkill and Iginla is an absolute upgrade...

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03-29-2013, 11:05 AM
  #84
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He's going to make that third line pretty good.

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03-29-2013, 11:09 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by madinsomniac View Post
Again, taking nothing away from how well he has played offensively the last few weeks, you cant judge a veteran who has established himself on a small period or even one year of exceptional play.

The fact remains that the guy is a sub 10% career shooter. he has been out of this world this year, but its clearly an abbhoration. he is shooting like 15%, which is like 3% better than his career best.

The fact also remains that when he moved to the Pens with their star centers, he went from a 8 to 9% shooter to a about an 11% guy, a clear sign that he gets more space and time here... but one has to wonder what a guy like iginla or even another younger option who already shoots better than dupruis without the benefit of Sid and Geno and Sutter/Staal would do with the same Ice time with said centers and without the focus of the defensive gameplan on them...

With the Sid Kunitz Dupris line, you have 3 guys who can forecheck and backcheck and grind and score, but as for playmaking Dupris is clearly a step below. You are talking about a guy playing with the two top point producers in the league, who up to about two weeks ago was hovering outside of the top 100 in points... who still is only barely in the top 50 while playing with some marvelous players....

Dupris is OK as a top 6 winger, but lets not get carried away here... he is absolutely the most replaceable player on that line, and it shows... Neal, who has had a miserable few weeks, still outpaces him in ppg by a decent margin. If the other two on his line were defensively irresponsible, slow, or not suited to grinding, then yes, you keep a guy like him there... but its overkill and Iginla is an absolute upgrade...
Just to play devils advocate, who here knew anything about Tim Thomas when he was 32 years old? He didn't become the starter in Boston until he was 33, and not considered a top tier goalie until he was 34-35. For whatever reason, he just figured it out late.....maybe Duper is the same?

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03-29-2013, 11:09 AM
  #86
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What a throw-in to get in a trade. Although I actually remember Thrashers fans (All 3 or 4 of them) being pissed about losing him in the Hossa deal and wanting to re-sign him when he hit free agency.

It's also amazing how he's found this scoring touche so deep into his career. I remember an interview where he basically said he's just doing the same old ****, it's just finally working.

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03-29-2013, 11:14 AM
  #87
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I was extremely impressed with Duper last night. He not only produced like a top 6 winger, but he looked like one. He was making passes and reading the play better than I have ever seen.

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03-29-2013, 11:18 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Just to play devils advocate, who here knew anything about Tim Thomas when he was 32 years old? He didn't become the starter in Boston until he was 33, and not considered a top tier goalie until he was 34-35. For whatever reason, he just figured it out late.....maybe Duper is the same?
Yeah there is no doubt he is finding another level in his game. He has learned how to play with a superstar. I don't see him as a competent top 6 winger on a team without a premier center, but he fits that role very well with Sid (at least in the regular season). I still have my doubts that he would be as effective in a tight checking playoff series. Plus, he would be so good on the 3rd line and Iggy IS a top 6 winger in the playoffs so it just makes sense to switch them. However, I'm fine with Dan mixing and matching to find the right fit.

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03-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I was extremely impressed with Duper last night. He not only produced like a top 6 winger, but he looked like one. He was making passes and reading the play better than I have ever seen.
He's motivated. He has never had to worry about losing that spot before

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03-29-2013, 11:24 AM
  #90
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He's also scored 8 short handed goals in the last 3 seasons alone. Not too shabby eh?

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03-29-2013, 11:27 AM
  #91
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By the way, you think Duppers would have a legit shot at getting consideration for the Selke? He is an accomplished defensive forward that sees significant PK time and is having a great season offensively on top of it all. He's also a +23!

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03-29-2013, 11:34 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Just to play devils advocate, who here knew anything about Tim Thomas when he was 32 years old? He didn't become the starter in Boston until he was 33, and not considered a top tier goalie until he was 34-35. For whatever reason, he just figured it out late.....maybe Duper is the same?
Well as long as he is playing like he did the past two weeks, its fine to assume that, but the problem is he has had these stretches before, only to revert after a few weeks to missed chances and bad passes. Thomas Vanek is a career 60 to 80 point guy... he started the season jumping out to a huge point lead having 25 in the first few weeks of the season... he has 33 right now... Sid started slow, now he is leading by a far margin...

Yes there are some late bloomers... some exceptions to every rule, but you dont count on that. Dupris is making the most out of a lot of space with Kunitz and Crosby lighting it up... that doesnt mean a proven scorer wouldnt do significantly better there.

Im not saying they should be in a rush to replace him... but lets face facts, the playoffs are a different beast. Save for the defenseless series last year, Dupruis's shooting percentage typically drops to 5 or 6% for us with less space in the playoffs... the same cant be said of Iginla or Crosby, or any of the elite talents... Dupris is a product of his line. He could be a great 3rd liner, but I think we are fooling ourselves if we look at the first line and dont realize its being skewered by the absolute greatness of Crosby right now

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03-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #93
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Was surprised to see this when looking at the full breakdown of top goal scorers in the league. Dupuis is 5th equal in the league (and likely to be bumped down to our 3rd line!)

C Steven Stamkos TB 33 23 20 43
C John Tavares NYI 34 21 15 36
L Chris Kunitz PIT 35 20 24 44
C Jeff Carter LA 33 18 4 22
R Patrick Kane CHI 32 17 24 41
L James Neal PIT 35 17 14 31
L Pascal Dupuis PIT 35 17 9 26

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03-29-2013, 10:18 PM
  #94
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I don't think they should mess with the top line of Kunitz, Crosby and Dupuis. Why fix something that isn't broken? It's the hottest line in the league right now. Iggy I'm sure will be on the second line until there is good reason to move him to the top line.

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03-29-2013, 10:30 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think you nailed it with the bold there. He will never say he wants better wings publicly. He didn't say anything in 2009 either; but does anyone believe he was anything but thrilled when we brought in Kunitz and Guerin?



Well both he and Hossa were injured for parts of the rest of that regular season. Come playoff time, they were tremendous together. And the part about them not necessarily needing chemistry is exactly what I think we could use. Someone who can come in and play well regardless of Sid. Kunitz and Dupuis need Sid or Geno to be the players they are. Teams know that and just throw blanket coverage at Sid and Geno and force those guys to beat them. Bringing in someone that can punish teams for that is my ideal acquisition. Someone that can create offense on their own.



Malkin's LW is the bigger hole right now for sure. But if we brought in an upgrade for Sid, either Kunitz or Dupuis could slide down into that spot for the time being. Wherever he plays, we absolutely need one more wing. I think getting Dupuis pushed to the third line would be ideal. He is a perfect player to have ready to step up in case of a top 6 injury.
I truly believe, based on the skillset that Morrow brings, he was acquired to fill that spot specifically. I don't care if they wanna try Dupuis there instead of the third line though. Iginla and Kunitz absolutely should be on the top line with Sid.

If they aren't soon, Bylsma is mis-managing his assets as far as I'm concerned.

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03-29-2013, 10:33 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Canbacon View Post
I don't think they should mess with the top line of Kunitz, Crosby and Dupuis. Why fix something that isn't broken? It's the hottest line in the league right now. Iggy I'm sure will be on the second line until there is good reason to move him to the top line.
And that is unfortunate because he should not be playing there. Dupuis is a solid player, and would be a great 3rd liner for us. Instead he's a mediocre 1st liner for us. I like Dupuis, but you dont leave him on the top line simply because he has some chemistry with Sid. If you're going to find out if Iginla has the chemistry, which is a better situation for us, you should be doing it now. Before the playoffs.

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03-29-2013, 10:37 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by madinsomniac View Post
Well as long as he is playing like he did the past two weeks, its fine to assume that, but the problem is he has had these stretches before, only to revert after a few weeks to missed chances and bad passes. Thomas Vanek is a career 60 to 80 point guy... he started the season jumping out to a huge point lead having 25 in the first few weeks of the season... he has 33 right now... Sid started slow, now he is leading by a far margin...

Yes there are some late bloomers... some exceptions to every rule, but you dont count on that. Dupris is making the most out of a lot of space with Kunitz and Crosby lighting it up... that doesnt mean a proven scorer wouldnt do significantly better there.

Im not saying they should be in a rush to replace him... but lets face facts, the playoffs are a different beast. Save for the defenseless series last year, Dupruis's shooting percentage typically drops to 5 or 6% for us with less space in the playoffs... the same cant be said of Iginla or Crosby, or any of the elite talents... Dupris is a product of his line. He could be a great 3rd liner, but I think we are fooling ourselves if we look at the first line and dont realize its being skewered by the absolute greatness of Crosby right now
Excellent post. This is the reason Dupuis needs to be moved down. Kunitz/Crosby/Iginla should be using the remainder of this regular season to gel as a line before the playoffs.

It's really very similar to the year we acquired Hossa. If not for injuries, Hossa and Crosby would've had time to develop their chemistry prior to the playoffs. Instead, it took them some time to get it going, but when they finally did, they looked great together.

I think Dupuis going to the third line would really improve the 3-line attack.

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03-29-2013, 10:44 PM
  #98
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probably my favorite non-star guy on the team over the past few seasons.

I'm all for not re-signing Cooke and TK (think this is inevitable) if it means being able to offer Dupuis a 2 or 3 year deal at about $3 million per.

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03-29-2013, 10:54 PM
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honestly. I think duper knows as well as anyone what he is, and how he should fit into this team with an iginla now in the mix. I think he will end up on the third line soon, play very well for us in that role, then take a smaller raise than some are expecting to stay on this team

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03-30-2013, 04:40 AM
  #100
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honestly. I think duper knows as well as anyone what he is, and how he should fit into this team with an iginla now in the mix. I think he will end up on the third line soon, play very well for us in that role, then take a smaller raise than some are expecting to stay on this team

[Dupuis] Coach, I can play in the regular season, but I can't play with these guys. I didn't play over my head all year so I could watch us go down on my account. Put Iggy in. He's better.

[Disco] You want him to take your spot, you go give it to him.


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