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Phoenix LXXIII: "This Space Available"

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Old
03-29-2013, 09:37 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
How can anyone take a bid serious from a company that has existed for a shorter time than the whole mess in Glendale? They're not even a toddler on the timeclock in the desert!
the short existence of his company isn't a big deal. Due to the overhaul in finance the past 5 years, lots of people have taken their books of business and set up their own shop. Remember The Raine Group who put together the Thrashers sale? They were like a year old at the time.

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03-29-2013, 10:12 PM
  #652
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So here's a question... How must those who have so faithfully supported Jamison feel now that it appears that he might have squandered opportunities for a local sale in Glendale? The key to a local sale is still a large subsidy from the COG, which was on the table until the last council election when a key pro-Coyotes member was turfed (Clark). If some of the emerging reports have any validity, it appears that there might have been other investment groups that could have successfully completed a sale with a Jamison type of deal. Instead, Jamison kept fooling around and promising to complete the deal, potentially blocking a legitimate deal. Now, the political will in the COG for a lucrative lease for a new owner has waned, and they might not be able to make it work for a new investment group.

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03-29-2013, 10:29 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
So here's a question... How must those who have so faithfully supported Jamison feel now that it appears that he might have squandered opportunities for a local sale in Glendale?
Have to imagine any other inquiries outside GJ's had possibly either a shorter term lease (with out clause) or outright had performance/out clause even shorter.

Clark even stated that Kaites told CoG profit must be realized in short order or they're gone.

Quote:
Quote:
"Kaites had told CC prev. that investors had to realize profit within first 5 yrs or relocate."
Former Council Member's timeline - Feb 28th 2013

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03-29-2013, 10:37 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
So here's a question... How must those who have so faithfully supported Jamison feel now that it appears that he might have squandered opportunities for a local sale in Glendale?
He didnt have exclusive negotiating rights so these purported groups have only themselves to blame for waiting around until well past midnight. Obvious to one & all an election was pending, what that would likely mean. He who procrastinates will have decisions made for him... now most of the once fine banquet removed from the table, the fine linens & silverware put away.

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03-29-2013, 10:46 PM
  #655
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This isn't the Thrashers where until the last couple of months only a few people knew that they were up for sale. All stories indicated that there were too many tie-ins with the Hawks for that to happen. Stories like this:

http://www.examiner.com/article/thra...lisha-cuthbert

The Coyotes meanwhile have been for sale for 4 years now. Everyone who has any interest in the sport of hockey knows it, so unless someone suddenly became rich now I doubt they are legit.

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03-29-2013, 10:53 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Have to imagine any other inquiries outside GJ's had possibly either a shorter term lease... Clark even stated that Kaites told CoG profit must be realized in short order or they're gone.
Ya, and theyve absolutely resisted & rejected short-term Lease Agreements in the past, even thinking about them really. Impossible with the financial commitments made to Hulsizer & Jamison, but ya, Ive been advocating all along for a 5-7yr agreement max. Reasonable fair market value AMF performance oriented. You'll know damn quick if youve got a shot at a full on resurrection within about 12-18 months, and by 24-36-48 months well on your way to beyond respectability. If not, then serve notice to the NHL & the COG that theyve got 12 months to find a new owner, Clubs up 4Sale, cant be done. If they dont find one, then you can sell or move it yourself wherever you want, be it Hartford, Houston, Portland, Seattle, Cincy, Hamilton, Markham or QC, wherever. Losses Capped in the Consent Form, Relo Fee's waived in consideration thereof up to & beyond whatever "we" decide market X, Y or Z is actually worth. But if your serious about it, about Phoenix, that day will never come. Instead, you'll be looking at a long term Lease Agreement being negotiated when the 5-7yr expires.

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03-30-2013, 12:43 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Have to imagine any other inquiries outside GJ's had possibly either a shorter term lease (with out clause) or outright had performance/out clause even shorter.

Clark even stated that Kaites told CoG profit must be realized in short order or they're gone.
This brings up a question that's been bugging me that past couple days.......

If the NHL sells the team.... are they allowed to also transfer the 10-year AMULA (with annual renewal) they currently have with the CoG to the new owner??

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03-30-2013, 01:02 AM
  #658
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If the NHL sells the team.... are they allowed to also transfer the 10-year AMULA (with annual renewal) they currently have with the CoG to the new owner??
As far as I can recall yes, absolutely. One concept being to simply transfer the AMUL, forget about negotiating long-term or short-term anything, just secure an annual Arena Mgmnt Fee & play it by ear year-year... hook up with whomever from the City of Glendale at the Hotel Valley Ho's Trader Vic's Lounge over in Old Town Scottsdale. Samsonite full of cash. Unfortunately I believe the joint closed coupla years ago, so thats out.

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03-30-2013, 01:16 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
As far as I can recall yes, absolutely. One concept being to simply transfer the AMUL, forget about negotiating long-term or short-term anything, just secure an annual Arena Mgmnt Fee & play it by ear year-year... hook up with whomever from the City of Glendale at the Hotel Valley Ho's Trader Vic's Lounge over in Old Town Scottsdale. Samsonite full of cash. Unfortunately I believe the joint closed coupla years ago, so thats out.
Trader Vic's Lounge closed in 2011.

The Powerball and Mega Millions is a combined $84 million, still not enough to fill this Samsonite suitcase !

Sorry...

Be seeing you!


Last edited by Llama19: 03-30-2013 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Added closing
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03-30-2013, 06:47 AM
  #660
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Phoenix LXXIV: Pastor is coming on good friday

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03-30-2013, 07:08 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
As far as I can recall yes, absolutely. One concept being to simply transfer the AMUL, forget about negotiating long-term or short-term anything, just secure an annual Arena Mgmnt Fee & play it by ear year-year... hook up with whomever from the City of Glendale at the Hotel Valley Ho's Trader Vic's Lounge over in Old Town Scottsdale. Samsonite full of cash. Unfortunately I believe the joint closed coupla years ago, so thats out.
I would think the opposite in terms if the AMUL. Since the sale to any prospective ownership group is contingent on a new lease and many goodies from CoG. The AMUL would in a sense not be required anymore.

With a brand new lease in place, it would be like this franchise being born again.....sorry, with pastor as the last name of the latest entry....I couldn't resist

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03-30-2013, 08:57 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
He didnt have exclusive negotiating rights so these purported groups have only themselves to blame for waiting around until well past midnight. Obvious to one & all an election was pending, what that would likely mean. He who procrastinates will have decisions made for him... now most of the once fine banquet removed from the table, the fine linens & silverware put away.
Perhaps, but it's also possible that others felt that Jamison had the inside track with the NHL and the COG, and didn't want to waste time and money to work out a separate deal with the COG. Also, a new group might have wanted a deal configured so that they had a reasonable "out" clause, and Clark and the COG would not have entertained that as long as they thought that Jamison would be willing to lock in for the long term. My point is that I think that Jamison really created a mess, because he pretended that he was ready with a solid group of investors for months, and then couldn't close the deal that was scratched our for him at the 11th hour by the former city council.

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03-30-2013, 09:02 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Have to imagine any other inquiries outside GJ's had possibly either a shorter term lease (with out clause) or outright had performance/out clause even shorter.

Clark even stated that Kaites told CoG profit must be realized in short order or they're gone.
I agree. My point is that Jamison's dilly-dallying might well have prevented the previous council, which was much more positively disposed towards the Coyotes, from looking at other options. He started his quest in August, 2011 (as I recall). I think he gave supportive council members false hope. Perhaps they should have given him a time limit to show that he had the financial wherewithal, as they had for the IEH after they became enamoured with them instead of Reinsdorf.

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03-30-2013, 09:16 AM
  #664
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But you believed TSN before, regarding "ready" relocation why the change?
Touche!

I think the change-cynical views that have evolved on my end, but your point had some validity!

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03-30-2013, 09:35 AM
  #665
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This brings up a question that's been bugging me that past couple days.......

If the NHL sells the team.... are they allowed to also transfer the 10-year AMULA (with annual renewal) they currently have with the CoG to the new owner??
Yes.

http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/0509draft.pdf

@ Bates GLEN17961 / Sec 7 Assignment
@ Bates GLEN17966 / Amendment Sec 3.4 Term

The NHL may, at their sole discretion, extend the AMUL for 10-years and assign it to anyone they want. Glendale's consent is not required. So, if an owner did not require a large scale operational subsidy from the city, the league can close the deal all by themselves, whenever they want.

I think you know where I stand on the probability of that happening: Not viable, blah, blah, blah.

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03-30-2013, 11:00 AM
  #666
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Yes.

http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/0509draft.pdf

@ Bates GLEN17961 / Sec 7 Assignment
@ Bates GLEN17966 / Amendment Sec 3.4 Term

The NHL may, at their sole discretion, extend the AMUL for 10-years and assign it to anyone they want. Glendale's consent is not required. So, if an owner did not require a large scale operational subsidy from the city, the league can close the deal all by themselves, whenever they want.

I think you know where I stand on the probability of that happening: Not viable, blah, blah, blah.
So, you're saying it's a mute (sic) point. Like silent...... Sorry couldn't resist, moot/mute bugs me only slightly less than lose/loose does. As in, if the Coyote's stay in Glendale the new owner will loose money by the bushel.

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03-30-2013, 11:35 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
He didnt have exclusive negotiating rights so these purported groups have only themselves to blame for waiting around until well past midnight. Obvious to one & all an election was pending, what that would likely mean. He who procrastinates will have decisions made for him... now most of the once fine banquet removed from the table, the fine linens & silverware put away.
We do not now that he didn't have exclusive rights. We know he did not have it with the CoG but what about the NHL? The NHL may not have entertained anyone else because of exclusivity with GJ. The NHL has never been forthcoming about any of their business associated with the Yotes.



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So, you're saying it's a mute (sic) point. Like silent...... Sorry couldn't resist, moot/mute bugs me only slightly less than lose/loose does. As in, if the Coyote's stay in Glendale the new owner will loose money by the bushel.
I hate when people use mute instead of moot.

Also, the AMULA the NHL has is for actual cash losses up to a limit, it is not a fixed amount like the other AMULAs were structured. If the team actually does get turned around financially, the CoG pays less and possibly nothing. GJ's was for a fixed amount regardless of the team's financial success or failure. HUGE upside on those AMULAs, not so much on the NHL one.

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03-30-2013, 11:40 AM
  #668
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So, you're saying it's a mute (sic) point. Like silent...... Sorry couldn't resist, moot/mute bugs me only slightly less than lose/loose does. As in, if the Coyote's stay in Glendale the new owner will loose money by the bushel.
Makes me think of the songs from the Beatles By The Bushel, which describe this saga:

It Won't Be Long
I Should Have Known Better
I'll Get You
Hello Goodbye
I Need You
We Can Work It Out
You Can't Do That
Fool On The Hill
Your Mother Should Know
Ticket To Ride
Magical Mystery Tour

Next title: Phoenix LXXIV: "By the Bushel or the QueBeck"

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03-30-2013, 12:53 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
As far as I can recall yes, absolutely. One concept being to simply transfer the AMUL, forget about negotiating long-term or short-term anything, just secure an annual Arena Mgmnt Fee & play it by ear year-year... hook up with whomever from the City of Glendale at the Hotel Valley Ho's Trader Vic's Lounge over in Old Town Scottsdale. Samsonite full of cash. Unfortunately I believe the joint closed coupla years ago, so thats out.
Amazing how many problems suitcases full of cash solve, isn't it?


Llama is right, even that's enough for this situation-mind you if YOU have a suitcase of cash you need to get rid of, well I can give you my address and we can work something out....

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03-30-2013, 12:58 PM
  #670
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this is a smoke screen, bunch of investment bankers trying to get a free team they can flip. Look away people. The balkan has returned i wonder if the money is in china

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03-30-2013, 01:34 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post

Trader Vic's Lounge closed in 2011.
Be seeing you!
... nice avy. Yes, soon, very soon, The Village will be ours good citizens

Be Seeing you...

and bummer about Trader Vics. Been there since 1934. Where do you go to get your "Tiki Bar Fix" nowadays? Eartha Kitt & Bobby Darrin playin 2 shows nightly. Thats some kinda fun Maing.

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Perhaps, but it's also possible that others felt that Jamison had the inside track with the NHL and the COG, and didn't want to waste time and money to work out a separate deal with the COG.
Possibly, though when thinking "NHL & potential ownership interest" I'd imagine paying them a visit, expressions of interest in buying or renting would be rather like visiting the Mustang Ranch in Nevada. They'll just set up you up with a Blonde if the Brunette your interested in is otherwise occupied. Either way your going to get ****ed. Savvy?

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I think he gave supportive council members false hope.
Plastic Jesus on the Dashboard? A buck sixty down Lost Highway middle of the night? Bowies Im Deranged? Robert Blake in Pancake Make-up huddled in the back seat chain smoking & smirking atcha through the rearview? 12 hours, 1000 miles from Glendale to the outskirts of Reno & the Mustang Ranch. Perhaps.

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We do not now that he didn't have exclusive rights. We know he did not have it with the CoG but what about the NHL? The NHL may not have entertained anyone else...
Unhuh. See above. If youve got the money honey.... Had any number of these individuals been around at all quite possible there would have been a bidding war in Missouri for the Blues etc when Hulsizer's exclusive negotiating rights expired, Stillman Last Man Standing, the NHL having no other bidders, having to finance operations for about 90 days themselves between finding out Matthew couldnt finance a ham sandwich & the team actually being sold. Perhaps re-directed them to go have a chat with Charles Wang, to Minnesota or Carolina where both ownership groups were looking for minority partners. AEG and the Kings. All kinds of opportunities beyond just Phoenix, or alternatively, enjoining these guys to Jamisons group, as clearly he was beyond challenged, out of his depth & whiffing on the puck, incapable, couldnt put the biscuit in the basket, close a paper bag much less this deal.


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03-30-2013, 01:45 PM
  #672
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Also, the AMULA the NHL has is for actual cash losses up to a limit, it is not a fixed amount like the other AMULAs were structured. If the team actually does get turned around financially, the CoG pays less and possibly nothing. GJ's was for a fixed amount regardless of the team's financial success or failure. HUGE upside on those AMULAs, not so much on the NHL one.
You seem to have the agreements confused.

The $25MM actual cash loss payments were contained in the Arena Management and Operations Agreement ("AMOA"). The AMOA is expired. There was never a right to extend the AMOA.

The Agreement of Management, Use, and Lease ("AMUL") is the agreement that allows the NHL use of Jobing.com arena. The AMUL may be extended at the NHL's sole discretion for a period of up to 10 years. The AMUL may also be assigned to another party at the NHL's sole discretion. The AMUL provides that the NHL will fulfill certain aspects of the Moyes Arena Management, Use, and Lease Agreement ("AMULA"). Namely, the NHL has to pay about $500k in base rent plus around $2.85 per qualified ticket sold at all arena events. Beyond those components, the NHL incurs operational costs at the arena and realizes operational revenues at the arena.

The point is, if the NHL truly believed in the Phoenix market as they claim to, all they have to do is extend the AMUL for 10 years and then they can assign it to any of the numerous parties they assert are interested in purchasing the Coyotes. The NHL literally does not have to contact Glendale at all. The league holds the sole right to extend and assign the AMUL.

So, why haven't they done that?

Well, the obvious answer seems to be: They don't really believe in the market at all and they don't really have any legitimate interest from any potential ownership group.

Instead the reports always seem to be some form of: "owners would need to work out a new lease with Glendale". That can pretty much be translated to "the team isn't viable so owners have to go get a large scale operational subsidy from Glendale"

Except JIG had that large scale subsidy in place for about six months or so. Essentially, the NHL provided them a mechanism to acquire the team for free. The alleged price of $170MM price was not an issue because it was essentially entirely covered by the Glendale subsidy. All JIG needed was to find anyone who was willing to put up about $90MM in an unsecured revolving line of credit to operate the franchise. Anyone in the world could have stepped in to do that. Here's a list of investors who were willing to do it:

1)

End of List

That's going to change between now and April 30? Ok, if Gary says so.

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03-30-2013, 02:09 PM
  #673
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The point is, if the NHL truly believed in the Phoenix market as they claim to, all they have to do is extend the AMUL for 10 years and then they can assign it to any of the numerous parties they assert are interested in purchasing the Coyotes... The league holds the sole right to extend and assign the AMUL.
Ya, and thats just it. I blew out some piston rings on that one near on 3yrs ago, subsequently on a couple of occasions in contemplating such. Simple enough matter to simply transfer the AMUL. Forget the Moon Shot's. Bonding, Arena Management Fee's of the sort one might imagine say.... the Manager of the 150,000 seat capacity Rungrado May Day Stadium in Pyongyang North Korea might receive, and you were dealing with Kim Jong Il, the 5th Beatle, author of the Bible. His Son now I guess. Stepped on the Moon in 65 a full 4yrs before the Americans got there.

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03-30-2013, 03:23 PM
  #674
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You seem to have the agreements confused.

The $25MM actual cash loss payments were contained in the Arena Management and Operations Agreement ("AMOA"). The AMOA is expired. There was never a right to extend the AMOA.

The Agreement of Management, Use, and Lease ("AMUL") is the agreement that allows the NHL use of Jobing.com arena. The AMUL may be extended at the NHL's sole discretion for a period of up to 10 years. The AMUL may also be assigned to another party at the NHL's sole discretion. The AMUL provides that the NHL will fulfill certain aspects of the Moyes Arena Management, Use, and Lease Agreement ("AMULA"). Namely, the NHL has to pay about $500k in base rent plus around $2.85 per qualified ticket sold at all arena events. Beyond those components, the NHL incurs operational costs at the arena and realizes operational revenues at the arena.

The point is, if the NHL truly believed in the Phoenix market as they claim to, all they have to do is extend the AMUL for 10 years and then they can assign it to any of the numerous parties they assert are interested in purchasing the Coyotes. The NHL literally does not have to contact Glendale at all. The league holds the sole right to extend and assign the AMUL.

So, why haven't they done that?

Well, the obvious answer seems to be: They don't really believe in the market at all and they don't really have any legitimate interest from any potential ownership group.

Instead the reports always seem to be some form of: "owners would need to work out a new lease with Glendale". That can pretty much be translated to "the team isn't viable so owners have to go get a large scale operational subsidy from Glendale"

Except JIG had that large scale subsidy in place for about six months or so. Essentially, the NHL provided them a mechanism to acquire the team for free. The alleged price of $170MM price was not an issue because it was essentially entirely covered by the Glendale subsidy. All JIG needed was to find anyone who was willing to put up about $90MM in an unsecured revolving line of credit to operate the franchise. Anyone in the world could have stepped in to do that. Here's a list of investors who were willing to do it:

1)

End of List

That's going to change between now and April 30? Ok, if Gary says so.
Great stuff CF! Another way of viewing the NHL`s disinterest in selling this franchise locally! And yet another way to say that GB is lying sack of excrement. Has to be the most disingenuous commissioner ever appointed! And the BOG, let them wallow in their own abyss dragging around a dead animal for three years all the while telling anyone who will listen that they are presently in the process of doing mouth to mouth and CPR!!

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03-30-2013, 03:43 PM
  #675
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dragging around a dead animal for three years!!!...
... nice job channeling Pierre PigsEye Parent mesa, founder of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Fur Trapper. Bootlegger. Wildman.

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