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All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

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Old
03-29-2013, 10:46 PM
  #551
frankthefrowner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So you mean players with a track record of success get more leeway with a coach? What a concept!?

What is your point, exactly? You want Kreider to play 20 minutes a night? Thats ****ing lunacy.

No i dont think he should be playing 20minutes a night. But is there a reason he's benched all the time? But JT miller by all accounts his golden boy never feels the repercussions of bad descision after bad descision.

Track record? Gabby has scored 40 goals for this team 2x recently. Brad won stanley cup with torts 9 years ago. No reason Brad shouldnt benched for what is far worse play that gabby.

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03-29-2013, 10:48 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Who the **** cares? These are the small, mundane things I see every...single....day on this board like it makes some sort of difference between why this team won and why they lost. Its ridiculous.

Both those guys should be in the AHL.
It might be mundane to us... but i believe its stuff like that can kill a locker room. Half the guys suffer the wrath of torts and the other half doesnt. Its a problem, you cant play favorites other wise we get half the team playing hard... and the other half not giving a ****.

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03-30-2013, 05:19 AM
  #553
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There is so many things wrong with this team.
Torts is just one of them . Bottom line whether its Torts or lack of depth the team are playing like " YELLOW DOGS " have no fight , gut check , compete level . Clearly is some discontent in the room and it can't be fun to be a NYR especially a TortureRanger when the team is not a consistent winner .
My hatred for Torts aside He doesn't deserve all the blame but it's not show friends it's show business and he needs to be gone sooner than later .

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Old
03-30-2013, 06:10 AM
  #554
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Thought this might go here better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
coaching sucks. leadership sucks. system sucks. no motivation. too much pressure.

THIS IS A BAD HOCKEY CLUB

our management likes acquiring manic depressives. can be happy with a game, still play like they just got dumped by sarah, their 5th grade girlfriend the next

def is not a depth issue as much as a performance one. miller is fine at center. boyle is fine in a 4th role. richards is the only MAJOR issue right now. when you're #1 plays like a #3 there's a problem on any team in this league minus maybe pitts
Philly has so many issues that they can't plug all the hole with just one move so they stand pat for now to let the muddy water settle.

In the NYR pond, the water is clear. The sediments are clean and rested at the bottom and the fresh water supply is abundant. All is picture perfect like one of many rocky mountain spring water beer commercial that I despise with all my heart except for one giant turd blocking up the stream. Regardless of how fresh the water is, how clear the the water is and how self sustaining the water system is, none of it matters when it's turd water.

The lack of faith and frustration the players have toward Torts and his ways is really unhealthy. We speculate that the players condemn Torts' ways secretly and whether this is true or not, what would we rather have? A dysfunctional system that the players believe in or at least blindly follows to their demise or a team with no confidence in the hockey club and identity they represent?

Everyone asks what's wrong with the team and I can tell you that there's nothing wrong with our line up and in fact, Gaborik, Richards and all of our line ups they way they were, the way they are now and however they might change are all legitimate winning lineups.

As a poker player who has to rely on introspection and a full understanding of myself and my mentality/approach, I know too well that doubt and the lack of confidence and pride will create weaknesses that weren't there in the first place. The good will turn into the bad and the bad will only get worse. Every mistakes and mishaps is 10X exaggerated and no win or strong performance will generate any faith, confidence or understanding of what went wrong/what can be done going forward.

It's like depression. Everything just sucks and nothing works and there's no end in sight. Lifeless and without an identity that you can rest your mind upon. It started out partly due to Rick Nash taking over as the offensive leader and players might have been complacent. Injuries happened, losses happened and we lost close games that made us weaker mentally especially with the high expectations and in a shortened season. It's not all on Torts but in a way, it's his job to make things better when things aren't going well by communicating with the players instead of implementing a system that is sure to fail with our personnel. That and his line ups that make no sense and are doubted by the players themselves. His inflexibility and the lack of strategics scares the players because they know they're going out of the gate with a losing game plan.

If you look at our wins, loses and the games that we barely won/lost and the games that saw us get blown out or blow the other team out. It's all reflective of Torts' system. Playing Ottawa, we're so far behind before the game even starts. When we play the Penguins, even with their great players, we should be able to put up a fight but we never stood a chance in the contests against them this year. Our games against Montreal were also bad including a 3-0 loss. We are being beaten systematically. We won against the Devils, Flyers and Islanders because they are not that great systematically. The panthers who were the worst in the NHL won because they have a fast transition and only a fast transition but that was enough to trump Torts' system.

Ripe to be beaten teams are taking one look at the way we play and their coaches are saying here's what we do to break their defense but most importantly, stymie their offense. The predictability of Torts' system combined with its simplicity puts us in a terrible spot to start every game.

The games that we win are won for various reasons. The games that we lose however are all lost because of the same reason.

We had the right personnel last year and we had balanced lines. Playing a shot for shot game that Torts likes, winning and losing comes down to the smallest battles and we won a lot of those small battles and we won games that way + Henrik's .930 1.98GAA which game partly from the battles the team won.

Before I explode this thread with my over wordy post, the point I'm trying to make is the lack of faith the team has in themselves. It's a game of momentum and when the individual players can't stay confident in themselves, what momentum is there to speak of aside from 5-10 minutes of up tempo shifts?

The signs are all there. A team plagued with self doubt and lack of faith in their identity, system and coach. It's time for a change.

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Old
03-30-2013, 06:24 AM
  #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
...
The signs are all there. A team plagued with self doubt and lack of faith in their identity, system and coach. It's time for a change.
Very nice post
Amen!!!

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Old
03-30-2013, 07:09 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
wait, benching one of your best forwards that night is a small mundane thing when the team is having trouble scoring goals? O...K.
Best forwards that night? We had someone you can consider a "best" forward for that game? I mean, honestly, what planet are you on to say something like that? Take a look at Ottawa's 2nd goal and check out Kreider's backcheck - you'll see a guy that still has no idea how to play away from the puck, and thats the main reason Kreider gets limited icetime. Period.

Amazingly, I do respect the inability to discern whats happening on the ice, rather than the other conjecture in this thread with all the amateur psychologists.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:06 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Best forwards that night? We had someone you can consider a "best" forward for that game? I mean, honestly, what planet are you on to say something like that? Take a look at Ottawa's 2nd goal and check out Kreider's backcheck - you'll see a guy that still has no idea how to play away from the puck, and thats the main reason Kreider gets limited icetime. Period.

Amazingly, I do respect the inability to discern whats happening on the ice, rather than the other conjecture in this thread with all the amateur psychologists.
While I agree missing defensive assignments is a critical mistake . Kreider generated offense had some good low hard shots on goal and otherwise played well . Expecting defensive perfection is one of the things killing this team and CK as a player . The underlying problem is not being able to score . Yeah the second goal was a huge blow but expecting to play a mistake free game and not being able to score one against a good fast team , but team of fill ins and rookies and back up goalies points to a larger problem . Not all of that Is on Torts but lets get real here his tenure here has been underwhelming . Last year was just that and we fell short .

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03-30-2013, 11:47 AM
  #558
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Torts has easily done the worst job of all coaches in the NHL this season. It's fantastic that he manage to put a team -- in the NHL, with NHL players -- on the ice that passes the puck as bad as we do. And not only on the PP.

He has obviously not drilled these guys in three years.

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03-30-2013, 11:54 AM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Torts has easily done the worst job of all coaches in the NHL this season. It's fantastic that he manage to put a team -- in the NHL, with NHL players -- on the ice that passes the puck as bad as we do. And not only on the PP.

He has obviously not drilled these guys in three years.
We need not pass. We dump, chase, block shots and grind. Passing is so overrated.

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:46 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
We need not pass. We dump, chase, block shots and grind. Passing is so overrated.
Jam?

We need not be CCCP anno 1985, but you gotta draw a line somewhere. There is no reason we should be the worst drilled team in the league.

Torts loves to trash his players and blame it all on them. But this is the worst drilled team I've seen in a long time. We are ten years behind as always. We model Calgary of 03-04 ten years too late. Nieminen, Lowry, Yelle and co starred for them, sure there is no denying that, but the game have changed. Look at that young kid in Tampa, there was zero room for players like him in the NHL ten years ago.

A teams like Boston is very well drilled and use the entire ice when they have the puck to always get it deep and put pressure on the other team with their big bodies. We don't mind giving the puck away to avoid making misstakes. We are down right horrible at passing the puck, which shows on the PP.

I've said for a long time that it's not Torts fault that we don have a good PP. I stand by that. But the problem is not that our PP is not "good", it's the worst in the NHL. I am sorry, I know many loves Torts and his tough act, but that is just not acceptable. You can't have the roster he have and ice by far the worst PP in the NHL.

He needs to change his approach some, but his ego is just to big for him to look up and see that the coaches around him has found new ways. He will continue to blame it all on his players and trash them publically.

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Old
03-30-2013, 04:57 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
The signs are all there. A team plagued with self doubt and lack of faith in their identity, system and coach. It's time for a change.
I'm not disagreeing with any of this. So I will ask a questions that I'm sure someone else has. Keeping in mind all the problems that have been stated.

Who will come in and coach this team?

It's a hard question to answer in a discussion. Even harder in reality. There are very few coaches (IMO) with the beans to walk in and coach this hockey club. It's always interesting watching the "professional" hockey folks taking pot shots at this franchise. Torts was one as I recall. But at least he had the courage of his convictions and stepped up.

You watch, Barry Melrose of all people will be a guy who gets mentioned. Even if it's only himself doing the mentioning.

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Old
03-30-2013, 05:20 PM
  #562
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You know what'd be great?

If it all just clicked, suddenly. If this team started playing as well as we know it could, and went on a monster streak.

That'd be just great.

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03-30-2013, 05:22 PM
  #563
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I'd love to see the team go on a huge run....but it's becoming pretty obvious that something is very wrong. Many somethings.

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Old
03-30-2013, 05:30 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
You know what'd be great?

If it all just clicked, suddenly. If this team started playing as well as we know it could, and went on a monster streak.

That'd be just great.
They should be able to do that.

Best goalie in the league.

Stacked top 4 defense.

3 elite GWers.

Good depth.

And so forth. Perfect? No. But still stacked compared to 75% of the teams in this league.

But just very poorly drilled. We just commits way to many simple misstakes with the puck. We just get way to little offensively from creative passing and such. Not to mention that it really shows on the PP how poorly we are drilled.

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Old
03-30-2013, 05:42 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'm not disagreeing with any of this. So I will ask a questions that I'm sure someone else has. Keeping in mind all the problems that have been stated.

Who will come in and coach this team?

It's a hard question to answer in a discussion. Even harder in reality. There are very few coaches (IMO) with the beans to walk in and coach this hockey club. It's always interesting watching the "professional" hockey folks taking pot shots at this franchise. Torts was one as I recall. But at least he had the courage of his convictions and stepped up.

You watch, Barry Melrose of all people will be a guy who gets mentioned. Even if it's only himself doing the mentioning.
I can only answer this honestly and say, I can't give you a name because I don't know enough about coaches. The way things are, there are two things wrong with Torts. Lack of strategics and lack of leadership as a coach as he's starting to run out of ways to help his team "find ways to win games"

There are potentially bad coaches to replace Torts with and as bad as those can be, it's a part of the trial and error. I don't know the coaching business well enough to know the coaches involved. It's Slat's job to know the candidates. While my criticisms may seem short sighted and ignorant of the big picture and the reality of the business, if CBJ, WPG, STL, LAK etc. can all replace their coach with much success, then we should be able to as well (Slats should be able to).

I'd rather die trying to get help than rot on an island and get killed by a slow acting poison.

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03-30-2013, 06:10 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
I can only answer this honestly and say, I can't give you a name because I don't know enough about coaches. The way things are, there are two things wrong with Torts. Lack of strategics and lack of leadership as a coach as he's starting to run out of ways to help his team "find ways to win games"

There are potentially bad coaches to replace Torts with and as bad as those can be, it's a part of the trial and error. I don't know the coaching business well enough to know the coaches involved. It's Slat's job to know the candidates. While my criticisms may seem short sighted and ignorant of the big picture and the reality of the business, if CBJ, WPG, STL, LAK etc. can all replace their coach with much success, then we should be able to as well (Slats should be able to).

I'd rather die trying to get help than rot on an island and get killed by a slow acting poison.
I get and appreciate what you are saying. You are not any more short sighted or ignorant than the rest of us. We are all pretty clueless to a greater or lesser degree.

I'm just making a point that indicates a simple fact. Getting a really good coach for the New York Rangers is a very difficult thing to do.

I can't be certain but given the indications we are seeing from the team, Tort's is the interim coach right now. Some where between last season and this one this team lost it's way. I'd have to guess they are talking to people, but it's almost certain to be a long process.

Qualified people will not line up to put their applications in. Imo, that's partly because the NHL is made up of mainly small town guys who feel more aligned and comfortable in smaller markets.

It's frustrating as hell to see this regression. One thing I would certainly do is cut a lot of dead wood out of this line up. Guys that don't show up and at least try should NOT be given a second chance. That's why I'd tolerate Miller on this team. He may look like a cluster %^&* out there at times, but the kid tries really hard.

Richards and Gabby can sleep in the bottom of the ocean for all I care.

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Old
03-30-2013, 06:27 PM
  #567
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I get and appreciate what you are saying. You are not any more short sighted or ignorant than the rest of us. We are all pretty clueless to a greater or lesser degree.

I'm just making a point that indicates a simple fact. Getting a really good coach for the New York Rangers is a very difficult thing to do.

I can't be certain but given the indications we are seeing from the team, Tort's is the interim coach right now. Some where between last season and this one this team lost it's way. I'd have to guess they are talking to people, but it's almost certain to be a long process.

Qualified people will not line up to put their applications in. Imo, that's partly because the NHL is made up of mainly small town guys who feel more aligned and comfortable in smaller markets.

It's frustrating as hell to see this regression. One thing I would certainly do is cut a lot of dead wood out of this line up. Guys that don't show up and at least try should NOT be given a second chance. That's why I'd tolerate Miller on this team. He may look like a cluster %^&* out there at times, but the kid tries really hard.

Richards and Gabby can sleep in the bottom of the ocean for all I care.
With this roster and the chance to win a Stanley Cup in NY (original 6 six team as well) you really think somebody qualified wouldn't jump at the chance? (honest question i'm wondering about potential coaching candidates).

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03-30-2013, 07:40 PM
  #568
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Game.Set.Match

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Old
03-30-2013, 07:41 PM
  #569
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Ron Low with walkie talkie, do it Slats!

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03-30-2013, 08:54 PM
  #570
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https://twitter.com/imseanavery/stat...77194490875904

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Sean Avery
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Fire this CLOWN, his players hate him and wont play for his BS.... @imseanavery is #winning
well that's not subtle at all

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:55 PM
  #571
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Fire this CLOWN, his players hate him and wont play for his BS.... @imseanavery is #winning
Avery speaking his mind.

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03-30-2013, 08:57 PM
  #572
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Avery speaking his mind.
as are millions of Ranger fans thinking the same thing.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:58 PM
  #573
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Because Torts got us to first place and the ECF that's the equivalent to tenure for a Rangers coach.

Hockey's different here.

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03-30-2013, 09:00 PM
  #574
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Because Hank got us to first place and the ECF that's the equivalent to tenure for a Rangers coach.

Hockey's different here.
fixed it for you.

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03-30-2013, 09:02 PM
  #575
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So we played one good game against PHILADELPHIA and all of the Torts apologists came out and praised our wonderful system.

Two shutouts in a row.
Dead last in GPG
25th in PP%
21st in PK%
16-15-3
"We don't practice offense"

He's better be fired by the time I wake up tomorrow morning.

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