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Old
03-28-2013, 10:34 PM
  #151
SouthernHab
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Clowe heating up.

Two assists in two nights.

Bergevin, get him on our team..........please.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:36 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I've said it before, but to me, it will be when this team has a legit point per game #1 C on the roster.
Thank you! Just a fan.

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03-28-2013, 10:42 PM
  #153
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There will be a bidding war for Clowe, will cost us way toooo much. Are you willing to give up a 1st for him? I'm not.

Players I have no problem trading right now; Desharnis, Weber, Kaberle, Dumont, Armstrond, 2nd round pick, whatever we can get with this...get. Do not sell the farm this year, we are not a serious contender yet.

That is all.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:47 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Hansman View Post
I would take a gamble on some toughness from that kid in L.A.Jordan Nolan,Ted's son.
6 foot 3 ,tough,has shown he;s defensively responsible,don't think he would cost too much.
Input from the regulars please
OUCH!!!

That is someone I would love to have with the Habs. I really doubt LA will want to trade him unless a decent NHL ready player and/or a prospect or a pick.


Last edited by mariolemieux66: 03-28-2013 at 10:48 PM. Reason: forgot a word ;-)
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Old
03-28-2013, 11:08 PM
  #155
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy d View Post
There will be a bidding war for Clowe, will cost us way toooo much. Are you willing to give up a 1st for him? I'm not.

Players I have no problem trading right now; Desharnis, Weber, Kaberle, Dumont, Armstrond, 2nd round pick, whatever we can get with this...get. Do not sell the farm this year, we are not a serious contender yet.

That is all.
Why are we not a serious contender? Because a lot of people on HFBoards (Habs fans) are saying that we are not?

Have you looked at our record and the standings? Did we luck our way there or did we get there with solid play?

Should we wait until we are undefeated for the season? Have a 20 point lead on the next closest team?

Only in Montreal can a team that is first in the NorthEast and second in the East with the second most wins, the fewest losses in regulation, 4th highest goals scored, and with the best away record is not a serious contender.

This type of thinking baffles me.

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Old
03-28-2013, 11:25 PM
  #156
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i'd rather not move our first this year, given how deep the first round is speculated to be (it gets said often, but this year seems particularly talented... and if it is anything close to '03, that first could land a significant player).

gambling with some depth prospects or later picks is fine, but our NHL roster has some decent depth as it is so i don't know that moving said picks/prospects for a bottom-6 or bottom-4 rental is worth it vs playing through with what we have.

Next year, if the team is in a similar situation in the standings, it would make more sense to be a bit more aggressive...

- we'll have a better idea of what guys like Kristo, Leblanc, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Bournival, Ellis et. can/can't bring to the table

- we'll have an influx of prospects from the '13 draft that will need or soon need a contract, so moving some of the young players on contract we have in place will be a bigger need

- price, subban, maxpac, gally, galch, eller, diaz, emelin will all be 1-year more experienced and hopefully that much more effective... giving us a nice core to work with and add to with a significant deadline acquisition.


next year the room to gamble will be bigger & make more sense... not that we shouldn't do anything this year, just moreso the following year.

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Old
03-29-2013, 11:28 PM
  #157
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Old
03-29-2013, 11:38 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Why are we not a serious contender? Because a lot of people on HFBoards (Habs fans) are saying that we are not?

Have you looked at our record and the standings? Did we luck our way there or did we get there with solid play?

Should we wait until we are undefeated for the season? Have a 20 point lead on the next closest team?

Only in Montreal can a team that is first in the NorthEast and second in the East with the second most wins, the fewest losses in regulation, 4th highest goals scored, and with the best away record is not a serious contender.

This type of thinking baffles me.
Thinking like yours baffles me, would I like clowe? Sure would I like jagr absolutely do I wanna give up the price needed for 2 rentals absolutely not... Why? Because this team has been great during the reason but the playoffs are a different animal and I think we have the foundation to be a contender for a long time I'm a few years guys like chuckie and gally will be great young players, patches, pk and price will be in their prime we have the foundation set with great prospects and an opportunity to add a lot more this summer of which we will definitely have players that will be great supporters to the leaders mentioned above... Patience dont rush this

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:00 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Thinking like yours baffles me, would I like clowe? Sure would I like jagr absolutely do I wanna give up the price needed for 2 rentals absolutely not... Why? Because this team has been great during the reason but the playoffs are a different animal and I think we have the foundation to be a contender for a long time I'm a few years guys like chuckie and gally will be great young players, patches, pk and price will be in their prime we have the foundation set with great prospects and an opportunity to add a lot more this summer of which we will definitely have players that will be great supporters to the leaders mentioned above... Patience dont rush this
I have been patient. Twenty years.

And during those twenty years I always heard that we were 2-3 years from having something special with our foundation and the prospects.

We will see within the week the philosophy Bergevin will choose.

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:03 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I have been patient. Twenty years.

And during those twenty years I always heard that we were 2-3 years from having something special with our foundation and the prospects.

We will see within the week the philosophy Bergevin will choose.
And if we would have let those prospects pan out like (not trading mcdonaugh for Gomez) we might have gotten somewhere and I've been waiting my whole life for one so no I'm not ready to risk the possibility of being a contending team for a long time on one season a few small moves I'm all for but no a or b level prospects gone and at most 1 second gone

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:35 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
And if we would have let those prospects pan out like (not trading mcdonaugh for Gomez) we might have gotten somewhere and I've been waiting my whole life for one so no I'm not ready to risk the possibility of being a contending team for a long time on one season a few small moves I'm all for but no a or b level prospects gone and at most 1 second gone
Couldn't of put it better myself.

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03-30-2013, 01:18 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by The Doors View Post
Great OP there is a window right now where the team has two number 1 defenceman. Two ****ing fantastic defenceman. Next year will probably be Markov's last great year before he starts to decline into more of a specialist and a lower minute guy. There are enough draft picks and young forward depth to sacrifice some of it for a guy that gives the team the best defence in the East. The names are all over the board, hopefully a deal is made because it could be very very very beneficial to the team.

It's hardly mortgaging the future, it's just being aggressive when there's an opportunity and seizing it for a small risk, a risk that the team has covered (look at the youth of the forwards on the team, many haven't even hit their prime). Things look good, take a step MB and make them look even better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
And if we would have let those prospects pan out like (not trading mcdonaugh for Gomez) we might have gotten somewhere and I've been waiting my whole life for one so no I'm not ready to risk the possibility of being a contending team for a long time on one season a few small moves I'm all for but no a or b level prospects gone and at most 1 second gone


20 years ain't that long at least if you are a buds fan...
Not being in the playoffs last year may have dimmed our memory.
We are essentially the same type of team that Upset the east a few years back.
Albeit far more exciting... But remember the pain and the tears and the guts and the effort it took to get that far. We are realistically 3 or 4 thoroughbreds away from a cup. They aren't anywhere out there that I can see. I would much rather MB attempt to upgrade using current roster players as trade bait.
We have a least 5 or 6 of them that could go... Problem is who would want the obvious ones

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Old
03-30-2013, 02:29 AM
  #163
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As good as our season has been we are not a SC team, DD is not a center on a SC team. PK is a year or two away from being dominant, and we are a defenceman short. Diaz might turn out to be that guy, and Tinordi as a reliable 5 or 6 would really help. The future looks very bright, but not this year. Having said that we can all dream, Carey could steal a series and then who knows? Really all I care about this year is take out the Ruins.

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Old
03-30-2013, 02:38 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I have been patient. Twenty years.

And during those twenty years I always heard that we were 2-3 years from having something special with our foundation and the prospects.

We will see within the week the philosophy Bergevin will choose.

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Old
03-30-2013, 04:11 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHwest View Post
As good as our season has been we are not a SC team, DD is not a center on a SC team. PK is a year or two away from being dominant, and we are a defenceman short. Diaz might turn out to be that guy, and Tinordi as a reliable 5 or 6 would really help. The future looks very bright, but not this year. Having said that we can all dream, Carey could steal a series and then who knows? Really all I care about this year is take out the Ruins.
So to you a D to be dominant needs to do more than almost 1 point per game? Jee then there hasn't been a dominant since Raymond Bourque.

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Old
03-30-2013, 04:35 AM
  #166
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So to you a D to be dominant needs to do more than almost 1 point per game? Jee then there hasn't been a dominant since Raymond Bourque.
huh, there's this Karlsson kid who did well last season you know (as far as PPG goes)...

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Old
03-30-2013, 04:52 AM
  #167
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trade awy a few picks or prospect just to try to make a run this year?

NO NO NO.
One of the best GM the habs ever had was Sam Pollack. Maybe most of you don't remember how he did it.
Almost all trades went this way.
Sam would trade away 3rd or 4th line players for HUGE assets.
If you deal from a stacked team, every player looks like Crosby.
Keep you prospects, teach them well in the AHL ( remember the black aces) Other GM's will be glad to pay a 1st pick or more for your hand-me- downs from a stacked club. Sam got the better deal 90% of the time. This is how you keep getting the best 1st rounders

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Old
03-30-2013, 05:00 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
huh, there's this Karlsson kid who did well last season you know (as far as PPG goes)...
More than 1.00 PPG. But in today's league where Shea Weber gets 14M$ a year, I think it's fair to say that PK has reached the dominant status. I wouldn't even be surprised that next year he and Karlsson will be in the same range in production.

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:27 AM
  #169
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The way I see it, we have to take advantage of all of our top 90 picks this year to strenghten our prospect depth. It's not what it used to be right now, and all the good, young, cheap players we've picked last year and this year will come in handy when we'll have to manage the cap with Subban, Price, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Eller, and Gallagher eating a big part of it. All these players are going to cost us lots of dough, we'll need cheaper assets to have a working team a few years down the road.
Plus, prices at TDD are insane. Iggy was kind of cheap, but Morrow and Murray were really expensive. Clowe will be really expensive too, and I won't even bother to mention what JBo will fetch.

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03-30-2013, 10:45 AM
  #170
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I think it's great for us to get ahead of our rebuilding phase like that. It's actually very reminiscent of the Philly rebuild after they drafted JVR. However, we need to face reality here. Finishing high in the standings does not mean we are a true contender. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable facing any of the top 8 team in the playoffs. We're a good team, but we're not a power-house yet. I don't think we are on equal footing with the likes of Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago or Vancouver, for example.

What we have here is the perfect occasion to build a perenial contender. We have a solid core on our team and they are all still relatively young. We have one of the best prospect pool in the league and we have a lot of picks in the upcoming draft. I believe we should keep all of those picks and develop even more our already solid pool. The day the Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller, Beaulieu, Tinordi and cie start to be true impact players (I would think in the next 2 or 3 years), that's when I think it will be time to add complementary pieces for a deep cup run.

As of right now, I think we still cruely lack top end talent up front. Clowe and Jagr won't solve that problem, and bringing them here won't turn us into cup contenders either. We'll just waste assets that could have been much more profitable to trade away in two or three years. If you're lucky enough, you might end up drafting impact players with that abundance of picks. Subban was a 2nd rounder.

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I have been patient. Twenty years.

And during those twenty years I always heard that we were 2-3 years from having something special with our foundation and the prospects.

We will see within the week the philosophy Bergevin will choose.
You know why you waited 20 years? Because we made short term moves at the expense of long term success. I'd prefer we not do this again now. And Ryan Clowe isn't going to take us anywhere dude, we're better off with the roster we have now.

The team is just starting the gel now. Leave it be this year and see how they do. It's a super deep draft, let's take advanatage of it and see what we can get. We can always trade picks and prospects next year. There's no hurry to do it now.

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03-30-2013, 11:00 AM
  #172
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trade awy a few picks or prospect just to try to make a run this year?

NO NO NO.
One of the best GM the habs ever had was Sam Pollack. Maybe most of you don't remember how he did it.
Almost all trades went this way.
Sam would trade away 3rd or 4th line players for HUGE assets.
If you deal from a stacked team, every player looks like Crosby.
Keep you prospects, teach them well in the AHL ( remember the black aces) Other GM's will be glad to pay a 1st pick or more for your hand-me- downs from a stacked club. Sam got the better deal 90% of the time. This is how you keep getting the best 1st rounders
Yup, even when we were contending he'd still trade away vets for picks and prospects. He understood the value of the draft.

People say that we did so well because of our scouting back then... it wasn't just that. He stockpiled tons of picks. And many of those picks turned into busts. He just stacked the deck to the point that some of them were going to pan out. It's a great strategy for winning and I'm surprised we don't see more of it. Boston has done this of late but they're the only good team I can think of that has been willing to do it.

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Old
03-30-2013, 11:30 AM
  #173
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I fully understand why people want to 'go for it ' when the team seems capable . But that's the thinking of fans that have been subject to bubble teams over the past decade and a half . When a good team is less frequent than a solar eclipse it's easy to think it will be a long time til you see another one .
One thing for sure the management has more options when it has promising young bodies that it can plug into its lineup or trade to other teams interested in 'potential' .

Bergevin is hopefully a patient man looking for a sustainable winning model. As long as he is I am on his side.

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03-30-2013, 12:52 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
trade awy a few picks or prospect just to try to make a run this year?

NO NO NO.
One of the best GM the habs ever had was Sam Pollack. Maybe most of you don't remember how he did it.
Almost all trades went this way.
Sam would trade away 3rd or 4th line players for HUGE assets.
If you deal from a stacked team, every player looks like Crosby.
Keep you prospects, teach them well in the AHL ( remember the black aces) Other GM's will be glad to pay a 1st pick or more for your hand-me- downs from a stacked club. Sam got the better deal 90% of the time. This is how you keep getting the best 1st rounders
I agree that Pollock had the right idea and I hope Bergevin follows his lead.

But I would tone done the expectections. Bergevin said he believed it was very hard to immediately improved your team through trade. Nowadays, in the long run, trades end up pretty even (you win some, you lose some) and only drafting with proper development generate sustainable value for your team.

See, There is more parity amongst GM too.

I know most of us think Snow or Feaster are complete idiot, for example, but even they would never have accepted the deal that brought Lafleur to Montreal.

Little history lesson:

The Golden Seals were a bottom feeder team who had just finished the 69-70 season with 58 points in 78 games (tied for bottom 2). The Habs at the time were between dynasties and had finished with 92 points in 78 games, somehwat low for the era but still tied for 4th.

The deal went: Seals's 1st pick in the 71 draft + François Lacombe

for

Canadiens 1st pick + Ernie Hicke

Ernie Hicke was an okay prospect, I guess, but he had yet to play a single game in the NHL when the deal went down. In his last year of Junior as a 20 year old, he put up 109 points in 55 games. But in 69-70 he was a 22-23 year old playing for Salt Lake Eagle and busy not destroying the league.

When the deal went down, Lafleur had already put up 170 points in 56 games in the prevois year. Dionne did 132 points in 54. That's ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY WERE DRAFT ELIGIBLE! That's two years younger than Hicke when he put up his best junior stats.

So... It did not even take a scouting department to know this could turn very ugly. You just had to look up their stats.

There were some TRULY clueless GM back then. Do any of you believe that early next year we can get the first pick of the flames in 2014 + a fringe NLHer against our first and Patrick Holland? Because that's pretty much what happened in that deal!


Last edited by VL55: 03-30-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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03-30-2013, 02:46 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You know why you waited 20 years? Because we made short term moves at the expense of long term success. I'd prefer we not do this again now. And Ryan Clowe isn't going to take us anywhere dude, we're better off with the roster we have now.

The team is just starting the gel now. Leave it be this year and see how they do. It's a super deep draft, let's take advanatage of it and see what we can get. We can always trade picks and prospects next year. There's no hurry to do it now.
I'm with you on this one. Why mortgage the future for Clowe or Jagr or whoever. We have a great core in the making we just need to stock the cupboards a little more.

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